Physical properties of amphetamine.

[Transform]

I'm trying to figure out why most street amphetamine is found as a paste.

The freebase is an oil which evaporates and decomposes slowly under standard conditions.

Shouldn't the salts just be relatively inert salts?

I gather the sulphate is most common and typically found as a paste. Is this because of hydrate formation, or is it something else?

Does the HCl salt also form a paste?

Is hydrate formation why purity values are so low?

 

[skillet]

It's because they don't dry it properly, just a way of cutting it.

The HCl salt is hygroscopic I think (unlike meth.HCl).

 

[Amu]

It's also due to ease of sniffing it, you don't have to snort a ton of powder

 

[Vaya]

It's also due to ease of sniffing it, you don't have to snort a ton of powder

....how can sniffing a paste be simpler than a powder? Fentanyl gel was hard enough for me lol....

I've heard of this paste so often over the years but have never, in all my adventures, run into it in America. But I hear it's all they find in the UK. Anyone know why this is?

~ vaya

 

[Transform]

I presume it's for the same reasons that meth isn't so popular here? Not sure on that though.

I thought one might be hygroscopic, but I searched for hydrate instead.

Further searching reveals that the HCl is very hygroscopic, and the sulphate is slightly.

Apparently, the sulphate is easy to dry, but often isn't, as more weight = more cash.

 

[Vaya]

Further searching reveals that the HCl is very hygroscopic, and the sulphate is slightly.

This is at least true for meth. Here is an image from Erowid; the caption by the link to the picture reads, "Color photo of Methamphetamine crystals. Note the small drops of water forming due to the hygroscopic nature of the material."

This thread reminded me of it.

~ vaya

Edit: looked it up, same thing applies to D,L-Amphetamine HCl

 

[Iodjini_dk]

I can confirm that amphetamine HCl is pretty damn hygroscopic. Small amounts of dry amphetamine HCl turns into droplets of solution/paste when left in the free air for a few minutes. However AFAIK most amphetamine encountered on the black market is the sulfate because it is much easier to work with (less hygroscopic). I actually think a lot of dealers cut amphetamine with water or alcohol because many people believe that pure amphetamine salts are liquid (thats a common misconception in Europe anyways).

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

Paste amphetamine like they have in europe I'm pretty sure/have read is just amphetamine sulphate mixed with sucrose and water to form a paste.

 

[pofacedhoe]

I can confirm that amphetamine HCl is pretty damn hygroscopic. Small amounts of dry amphetamine HCl turns into droplets of solution/paste when left in the free air for a few minutes. However AFAIK most amphetamine encountered on the black market is the sulfate because it is much easier to work with (less hygroscopic). I actually think a lot of dealers cut amphetamine with water or alcohol because many people believe that pure amphetamine salts are liquid (thats a common misconception in Europe anyways).

the alcohol is to make it smell like it has come fresh from a factory with solvents and to make an even cut (when cutting the product with glucose). makes it smell and seem quite pure

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

in this video several people say speed stinks/reeks and at least the one person says you can smell the speed on a dealer, is this true? and wouldn't ideally amphetamine be odorless, or relatively odorless? i'd think the smell is because of impurities present...

 

[Iodjini_dk]

Amphetamine salts as HCl or the sulfate are completely odorless. Most street amphetamine reeks of phenylacetone however. And many people associate the smell of phenylacetone with a good product.

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

so is unreacted P2P what makes it smell like ammonia/piss apparently?

 

[Alcyone]

No, that would be the smell of amphetamine base or unreacted ammonia. P2P dosen't smell anything like ammonia or piss, it's got more of a flowery or almondy smell which can be quite sickening.

 

[Iodjini_dk]

I think thats unlikely^^
The crude compound is usually treated with an excess of acid rendering all amines present protonated and mostly odorless.

I guess the thread will be closed now

 

[Indole]

Using an excess of acid would probably be unwise as it would be wasteful and more harmful to the consumers. The amount of acid used is probably based on the theoretical amount of amphetamine in the yield.

On another note, P2P is not an amine, so treatment with acid would not create P2P salts, and any leftovers in the product would probably be stinky.

 

[sekio]

I thought the "paste" was just sugar, water, and amphetamine sulphate or hydrochloride.

 

[oldkaw]

I thought the "paste" was just sugar, water, and amphetamine sulphate or hydrochloride.

I thought the oily paste was freebase cut with inert "putty". At least the better quality, ~60-70% anyway. Most street product is usually far more adulterated.

 

[Amu]

I thought the "paste" was just sugar, water, and amphetamine sulphate or hydrochloride.

If amphetamine is odorless as claimed above how the hell are users sniffing a mix of water/sugar/salt?

 

[Iodjini_dk]

Using an excess of acid would probably be unwise as it would be wasteful and more harmful to the consumers. The amount of acid used is probably based on the theoretical amount of amphetamine in the yield.

On another note, P2P is not an amine, so treatment with acid would not create P2P salts, and any leftovers in the product would probably be stinky.

Yet it would still be an excess if the amount is based on full conversion of the starting material. I dont think many clandestine labs obtain full conversion of the starting material.

My point exactly about P2P that it doesnt matter whether theres acidic workup or not, P2P leftovers will still smell.

 

[skillet]

If amphetamine is odorless as claimed above how the hell are users sniffing a mix of water/sugar/salt?

You don't, you'd have to dry out 'base' if you wanted to sniff it. It's almost always taken orally IME.

Yet it would still be an excess if the amount is based on full conversion of the starting material. I dont think many clandestine labs obtain full conversion of the starting material.

My point exactly about P2P that it doesnt matter whether theres acidic workup or not, P2P leftovers will still smell.

With amp sulfate, you couldn't use excess acid or you'd start getting some of the acid (hydrogensulfate) salt. I don't know how they calculate it, maybe just add 0.4 molar equivalents of acid to the non-polar extract and filter, and put the filtrate in with the next batch. If it's not washed really well and/or recrystallised there'll probably be a fair bit of P2P and amp base stuck to it.