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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

work drug tests

ebay

Bluelighter
Joined
May 3, 2003
Messages
101
With work drug testing they are only testing to see if you are impaired at work, right?

They can't stop you doing what you want in your own time as long as doesn't effect them, right?

If I take drugs on the weekend they will show up if I'm tested on monday but they can't sack me for that, right?
 
Look at it this way, if you do get fired because they found something illegal, your claim for unfair dismissal is void. ;)
 
If I take drugs on the weekend they will show up if I'm tested on monday but they can't sack me for that, right?

Nup, I'm pretty sure they can sack you. I think, if the test results provided to your employer read "positive" or "negative" as the only possible results, and you get a positive, then you're fucked. It wouldn't make a difference if you had the drugs on sunday, friday, two weeks ago, or you were high when they were taking the sample.

AFAIK no workplace drug testing has established 'limits' under which detected drug metabolites is "o.k.".

BigTrancer :)
 
Am pretty sure that if they find anything in your system then they can sack you.

When I went for my job about 4 months ago I had to take a test before they would give me a job, I took a pill on the saturday night and had the test on the tuesday, came up clean. others however didn't get the job, mostly cause of pot though...
 
Yeah that makes sense I suppose...




FUCK

that sucks:X

Forced moderation is the next best thing to moderation I suppose, I should get more value but it still sucks though.

Stupid work:p
 
My employer is trying to bring in random drug tests at the moment, with opposition from the unions. The unions don't like the policy that the company has, because it is to hard to detect when the drug was last used. Was it a smoke before work of a stoner of a weekend?
At the moment the company only drug tests as a prerequisite of employment, in which if any of the drugs tested for show up in your urine, you automatically fail the medical exam. (no employment)
The only other time they are allowed to test you at the moment is if you directly involved in a safety incident.
Not that long ago, an employee was involved in a safety incident and was asked to give a urine sample. He was a chronic pot smoker and returned a positive sample. He had to have 10 weeks off using his own annual leave till he gave a clean sample and was allowed to return to work.
It's not something that companies will sack people for, they will offer rehabilitation first.
3 positive tests in 5 years is employment terminated.
I think in the not to distant future the majority of australian companies will have random drug testing.
 
Personally I think workplace drug testing is bullshit. It's a perfect example of being guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. And the worst bit is that the amount of people who show up to work still pissed from the night before is huge. But this is always overlooked (and sometimes encouraged), while a dope smoker can lose his job 3 days after his last puff. Not to mention the cases where a false positive results in a stigma hanging over a totally innocent employee's head for the rest of their time in the company.

Check out exactly what it says in your workplace agreement and your personal terms of employment that you would have signed when you started. If it doesn't specifically set out the procedures and rules regarding drug testing then get in contact with your union and determine exactly what your rights are.
 
Most of the policies I've seen are called "Alcohol and other Drugs in the Workplace"
And the first thing that happens after a safety incident is an alcohol breath test.
Five years ago, you could have a beer after work on site, these days alcohol is banned from most work sites. I'm not even allowed to drink alcohol while I'm showing my company logo.
I don't like these workplace drug policies either, they have been a pain for the last few years. BUT it is only a matter of time before the government steps in with legislation.
 
Unless you have signed a contract agreeing to drug testing under certain conditions (say after an accident, or random tests) I would suggest never providing a sample for drug testing without legal / union advice. This is another good reason to be in a union!
 
my school has started trying to bring in random drug tests for anyone looking fucked at school.
i'm 18 and therefore my own legal guardian. the school recently asked me for a blood sample, and i straight up told them to get fucked. there was nothing they could do about my answer.
if you have not signed a contract of your willingness to be tested your employer cannot test you and cannot fire you if you decline.
my2c
 
^ It might be worse than you think, if:

a. The provision for random/regular drug testing is incorporated into employment contracts, government awards, enterprise bargaining agreements (i.e., you want the job, you sign the contract agreeing to drug testing, no signature = no job), and

b. If employers opt for hair testing, which can show signs of drug use LONG after the metabolites of the drugs are gone from your system.

A majority (68%**) of employers support the view that drug and alcohol testing should be mandatory following workplace accidents (drugs and alcohol are implicated in some 10% of workplace deaths and 25% of workplace accidents*) and a large proportion support random testing too, because according to OHS sources drug users are 10x more likely to take time off work, and be avg 33% less productive while at work**.

(*REF)(**REF)

BigTrancer :)
 
You cannot legallly be forced to take a drug test unless its in your employment contract (or perhaps govt award like bt said?), so make sure you READ IT before you sign. If you have a clause like this in it, you can try to negotiate its removal based on the ground that it doesnt show when the drug was last taken and they cant regulate what you do outside work.

Likewise, and employer cannot force you to take one as a condition of employment. Sure they probably wont hire you but in theory you can hit them for discrimination (altho they'll probably just say you werent the best qualified for the job rather than because you refused a drug test)

If you get sacked because of the results of taking one, the legal ground is shakey... a good lawyer will argue as above, that what you do outside of work is none of their business, and as long as it never affected your work you might have a case. However is you work for the govt or with children then you're basicly fucked.
 
I work in a factory and I have signed a form to say that I've recieved a copy of the policy but I don't think(please) that it was any sort of contract.
 
im currently 18 years old, just finished high school and about to start higher learning.
my opinion is this;

You are your own person, the desicions you make outside of your trading hrs are yours to hold. If that includes taking illigeal substances recreationally, it should in no way hinder your chances of employment.
Who do they think they are, its a total intrusion of privacy for them to judge you personally ( i say personally because your recreational drug use is in no way effecting your work, therefor it becomes personal, its out of business hours).
freedom of fkn chioce. this is in total violation to this.

i just cant understand it, it infuriates me. pisses me off.

i am my own, no one elses, i have choice, in no way should that choice be judged by some brownnose fuckwit in a siut and tie.
fuck them.
im sorry, thats all i have to say. :X :X :X
 
unfortunately, your opinion, and my opinion, of how things should be, counts for dick. At the end of the day youre breaking the law, and companies have to look out for their own best interests. The primary concern is people who take drugs outside of work will have their work affected by it, but there are other consideration such as the percieved link between drug use and crime - if youre willing to break drug laws then you obviously have a questionable code of ethics and whats to stop you from stealing from the company. Likewise people dont want 'bad influences' around their children so if you work in an invironment where you are exposed to children then thats also a concern. Maybe your drug use doesnt affect your work but what if you get others at in the company to start and it affects theirs? What if you get busted? Thats bad publicity for them.

The point is businesses have legitimate reasons for not wanting their employees to take drugs. The problem is they set themselves up as the morality police and thats when people get shirty. You cant blame them for wanting to protect their own interests tho
 
Well if the perfect drug existed which allowed the user to be free of any residual or physiological effects after use, then there may be some cause for argument.

But with the hysteria that comes from some quarters, the manifest is not only fear of a loss of production (perhaps the only real concern) but the undeniable reality that the wellbeing of other workers is at stake. Health and Safety regulations will get us all in the end :X

Of course most responsible drug users would argue that a pill on Friday night with all the appropriate supplements, a good restful day on Saturday and an early night Sunday leaves you fresh as a bell. Fair enough. But not everyone thinks like this, and it only takes one half asleep, strung out worker to potentially put another's life in danger.

So, health authorities and particularly insurance companies lay down the rules. A mostly conservative board of directors gives it the big tick and policy is implemented (whenever insurance comes into it there is little or no choice anyway). To do otherwise i.e. no workplace testing, for many companies would be corporate suicide.

Sure its a dirty form of forced compliance, open to exploitation and undoubtedly a cause of many cases of unfounded dismissal. I've often thought about a fair compromise, say only requesting a test if your work etc. has deteriorated and there is no other explanation that you the worker can offer to explain his/her actions.
That way, the worker could at least decline and leave graciously without a smear record etc.

But that seemingly ideal solution is fraught with problems. All it would take is for one person to be injured because of the actions of someone with drugs in their system (even if this played no part in the accident) and the system and the company would go down the share market tube.


One thing that's almost certain is that the world is destined to only get tougher with regulations. What's allowed for sale on the shelf today, just like the present rights of workers and workplace H&S standards, will be very different tomorrow.

In tomorrows Brave New brazilian World, the definition of the savage will be not that unlike the character Huxley's book portrayed. Except perhaps that many "savages" will live within the walls of the city. To work, to attend, to participate, to play, even to buy will require a consistent behavior standard that distinguishes modern society from the genetically inferior [sic] social dissidents :|

Improvements in analysis techniques will impact immensely on what becomes standard policy. earlier this year at an expo of the analytical world, a French company unveiled a new laser induced fluorescence detector, capable of measuring some substances down to a level of 10E-12M!!! Thats 0.000000000001 of a mole!!!

Exihibitor Highlights

Picometrics will display its ZETALIF series of laser-induced fluorescence detectors for HPLC and capillary electrophoresis, including an LIF detector built on a platform to which additional features can be added. The detectors reportedly provide excellent sensitivity for compounds with native fluorescence as well as derivatives (a 100- to 1000- fold increment in sensitivity is typically observed relative to conventional fluorescence). LIF provides nanomolar to picomolar limits of detection and amol to zmol limits of quantification using a broad range of lasers from 266 nm to 780 nm for excitation.


It has been said the next generation of equipment will be able to detect a few molecules (<zmol) of a substance in the body!!

If you care to do the maths, and looking at the half life of the most persistent MDMA metabolite of ~32 hours (ref: Erowid), current amol detection limits mean that for a single dose of MDMA or 100mg, taken irregularly, and assuming metabolism is average, it will take approximately 1 month to be clean.

Of course many variables are involved here and this may vary quite a bit between individuals, but you can get the general picture.

If you've ever looked at first order rates of metabolism (which is far from the complete picture of elimination rates etc. but gives an idea) you will realise that theroetically there will be traces of things - single molecules - that always remain. It is no exaggeration to say that a typical workplace drug test of the future may produce a result that says something like " Level of hydroxylated amphetamine metabolite indicates bio-accumulation date (when you took the drug) as X number of years ago".




I'll leave you with these sobering words from a respected analytical bee; GC_MS, written late 2002

Let's also have a look at the nearby future. I've been to a presentation last week where company X gave some information about a new device they will launch at PittCon 2003: an LC/MS with sensitivity that can go as far as the amol range. That is euhm... sensitive . I can go into the fmol range now without to many problems, but amol, holy shit. In 2010, they can bust your ass because you have 3 MDMA molecules in your blood
 
I think these sensitivity limits will go beyond our prefix names... we've got micromole (1E-6), nanomole (1E-9), picomole (1E-12), femtomole (1E-15), attomole (1E-18), zeptomole (1E-21), yoctomole (1E-24)... 1E-27 moles should probabaly be called a guacamole... ;)

BigTrancer :)

PS: not my original joke, I heard it some time ago from a chemistry lecturer hehe.
 
phase_dancer said:

Of course most responsible drug users would argue that a pill on Friday night with all the appropriate supplements, a good restful day on Saturday and an early night Sunday leaves you fresh as a bell. Fair enough. But not everyone thinks like this, and it only takes one half asleep, strung out worker to potentially put another's life in danger.

if this is there way of thinking, why do they fail to reconize the effects of alcohol from a weekend. im sure many poeple come to work pissed or still recovering from a big night on the weekend, and im sure that this would effect their work standard. (some at least). tho i dont want to generalize too much, i cant see the reason in that.

may the governent influence companys or blackmail companys to make it policy, especially big corperations, just to have some little control over the publics drug use?
 
Holy guacamole scatman...thats fucked

How does it work where sudafed can give you a false positive? Can you say you had some of them and by the time they retest you you're clean? Will the increased sensitivty of these tests also increase the accuracy of molecule identification so sudafed will not give you a false reading? How does all that work?

Companies don't do this out of government pressure, they do it to increase profits. Cheaper insurance, less compo claims and a whole heap of other productivity issues are improved through a safer workplace so you cant blame them for doing their jobs. I just wish they would leave... ME... ALONE :X (no boss, I aint got goey rage from taking speed in the last few days)
 
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