Opioids Kratom for heroin/oxy withdrawal?? Does it work?

Yes. Yes it does.

IT worked very well for me in regards to an intranasal heroin/fentanyl habit that i had for about a year.

The information you are seeking is already here on BL just do some searching in regards to kratom and withdrawals.

Good luck

I highly recommend Kratom. I used it to come off opiates and didn't have any of the upset stomach, cramps or nausea. I still dealt with mild depression and insomnia as well as hot flashes/sweats but it made the detox process really easy to cope with. I still use it a few times a week. Depending on the strain you use, it helps with lack of appitite, anxiety, depression, sleep, energy and it's a mood elevator. I haven't found it be addictive, either, although if used daily, you can build a tolerance to it.

I ordered some and hope it gets here before the weekend. What strain did you guys use? And did you use the capsules?

Just remember that you can catch a habit on it very easily. I read your other thread so you should be aware its a slippery slope and will cause dependence, addiction, and withdrawal as with the other opiates you were taking. I went the same route you are going when i was dopesick and vulnerable and ended up just as addicted to the full spectrum tincture. The withdrawal was not pretty.

Yes! Use the capsules! When I first purchased Kratom online, I bought a 4oz bag of powder form (for both my husband and self). I couldn't for the life of me swallow it in powder form, so I started to capsule it myself. I like the mang da for it's uplifting, energy effects. My husband prefers Bali for it's mellowing and relaxing effect, similar to a benzo feeling. Either one will help you. I'm 5'1" and around 120lbs and have always kept my dosage between 4-6 capsules, each one containing approx 1g. To use it to come off of opiates, I'd take my dosage as soon as I woke up in the morning with a glass of grapefruit juice, or orange juice if you like that better. Took approx 45 min to kick in and would last me all day. I did this for a week and a half then started to taper off my dosage, lowering the amount I took as well as skipping days. I didn't need a new daily habit, so now I use it occasionally when I don't feel like taking my other meds but still need to be able to function. Good luck!

AgonyAndEcstasy781 said:

Just remember that you can catch a habit on it very easily. I read your other thread so you should be aware its a slippery slope and will cause dependence, addiction, and withdrawal as with the other opiates you were taking. I went the same route you are going when i was dopesick and vulnerable and ended up just as addicted to the full spectrum tincture. The withdrawal was not pretty.

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Being addicted to FST, or any extract really, is not even on the same level as plain leaf addiction. In fact, you may not even be dependant on any kratom alkaloids whatsoever if your addicted to FST or UEI, but that topic has been beaten to death.

CaptainKratom said:

Being addicted to FST, or any extract really, is not even on the same level as plain leaf addiction. In fact, you may not even be dependant on any kratom alkaloids whatsoever if your addicted to FST or UEI, but that topic has been beaten to death.

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In the dosages I was taking, it was potent enough to.induce euphoria and
Addiction, and withdawal comparable to hydrocodone. I used plain leaf in tea for a long time and found it far weaker and less pleasant in higher doses, but it's possible I wasn't preparing it correctly.

Regardless, kratom is not a cure for opiate withdawal any more than poppy seed tea is, and probably is a worse idea that buprenorphine in most circumstances. At least bupe won't continue the cycle of euphoria amd withdrawal. Bupes long half life, partial agonist nature and low abuse potential (compared to other opiates) make it perfect for getting over the worst of opiate withdrawal as long as you only take it for a week.

Taking kratom for opiate withdrawal is a slippery slope.

In the dosages I was taking, it was potent enough to.induce euphoria and
Addiction, and withdawal comparable to hydrocodone. I used plain leaf in tea for a long time and found it far weaker and less pleasant in higher doses, but it's possible I wasn't preparing it correctly.

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That's because it's very likely your ingesting a semi-synthetic full agonist in the case of FST (Mitragynine Pseudo-indoxyl) whereas kratom mainly consists of the partial agonist mitragynine. Your making my point, that plain leaf isn't capable of producing the effects of an extract, which is why there's no denying that extracts will cause a worse withdrawal and tolerance when compared to plain leaf, especially when we're dealing with adulterated synthetic full-agonist extracts not containing kratom alkaloids whatsoever 8). Comparing plain leaf withdrawal to FST WD is like comparing codeine withdrawal to oxy withdrawal... at best. Technically, you've never been addicted to kratom.

Regardless, kratom is not a cure for opiate withdawal.

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Never once said it was a cure for opiate withdrawal, is there any mu agonist that is?

and probably is a worse idea that buprenorphine in most circumstances. At least bupe won't continue the cycle of euphoria amd withdrawal. Bupes long half life, partial agonist nature and low abuse potential (compared to other opiates) make it perfect for getting over the worst of opiate withdrawal

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Kratom is also a partial agonist btw, 7-hydroxymitragynine is present in such minute amounts it's almost pointless. It's half-life is also only 3.5 hours making the withdrawal essentially over by day 5-7. So how are you better off being addicted to both codeine and morphine? (poppy)

Kratom also has a ceiling of effects that stops you from getting high after a certain point, which means you can't "continue the cycle of euphoria" as you simply stop getting high after a certain point and you only get nausea and nasty side-effects until you take a break. Bupe is sooo much stronger than kratom that it's a joke to even compare the two. Even a couple mgs of bupe far exceeds what the max dose of kratom can do.

Lemme guess... You're dependent on kratom?

I've been on kratom, been on FST, been on heroin, been on sub maintenance, been on methadone. I've been around and I've seen it all, been an opiate addict for 10 years. Jumping on kratom to get off opiates is a shit idea. Bupe is easily the best option to detox and taper off of full agonist opiates, kratom cant hold a candle to it. Let alone the shitty side effects and disgusting tea.

What about the information I posted on bupe is so ridiculous? Its based on years of experience, I got on subs as soon as they were introduced to the US market. For the reasons I already mentioned they are a perfect detox drug. You said yourself, kratom has a short half life that requires constant dosing, bupe has a half life of 36 hours. There's a reason drugs with long half-lives are preferable for detox and maintenance.

If that's one of the most ridiculous things you've heard, you've got another thing coming. How.about the thread where that guy squirted two cups of kratom tea up his ass? Maybe it seems ridiculous to you.because youre a bit sensitive on this subject,.. I wonder why that is?

I suppose i shouldnt be surprised that some named Captain Kratom is so eager to come to its defense however.

I've put myself through withdrawal more times than I can count. Out of all the things I tried to curb the withdrawal effects (tapering off, methadone, suboxone, benzo's, combo's, etc.), Kratom helped the most without adding to the problem. This is just my own personal experience and I can see how someone could use Kratom as a replacement of another addiction, but I feel like it would be more habit forming rather than addictive therefore making Kratom withdrawal more mental than physical. Seeing as how there is no real cure for withdrawal and if the Kratom works well being used to come off opiates, why not use it rather than using more pharmaceuticals? That's just how I've always thought about it.

The cure for withdrawal is abstinence from opiate agonists, bupe sgould only be used to taper off, then stopped. If you can use kratom in that way, great.

AgonyAndEcstasy781 said:

Lemme guess... You're dependent on kratom?

I've been on kratom, been on FST, been on heroin, been on sub maintenance, been on methadone. I've been around and I've seen it all, been an opiate addict for 10 years. Jumping on kratom to get off opiates is a shit idea. Bupe is easily the best option to detox and taper off of full agonist opiates, kratom cant hold a candle to it. Let alone the shitty side effects and disgusting tea.

What about the information I posted on bupe is so ridiculous? Its based on years of experience, I got on subs as soon as they were introduced to the US market. For the reasons I already mentioned they are a perfect detox drug. You said yourself, kratom has a short half life that requires constant dosing, bupe has a half life of 36 hours. There's a reason drugs with long half-lives are preferable for detox and maintenance.

I suppose i shouldnt be surprised that some named Captain Kratom is so eager to come to its defense however.

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I call out bullshit when I see it, and when somebody comes in here complaining how kratom withdrawal is so horrible yet has never even been addicted to plain leaf kratom yes, I feel compelled to speak my mind . Especially when your reccommending people jump on subs for the same list of "positives" that kratom has.

Though of course now your probably gonna come and say "I have been addicted to plain leaf and it was far worse than bupe" now that you see where I'm going with this, and you've already said yourself that it's incredibly weak. I'd do the same if somebody came in here saying that your better off using heroin for hydro withdrawal rather than codeine (half-life aside)... FST isn't even kratom, I don't see how that's hard to understand, It's a full agonist opioid at the least on par with oxy.

What's rediculous about what you posted in regards to bupe is that it's so much stronger than kratom (which IS plain leaf fyi) that it's rediculous to come in and say that because bupe is a "partial agonist" that it's a better option when you have no idea that kratom is also a "partial agonist" with an even lower ceiling than bupe. A bit of misinformation can drive people from the ditches to speak...

I hardly even get high on kratom anymore yet 2mgs of bupe will send me to the moon and back. I'm not gonna argue with you though, as pretty much most who have been on both plain leaf kratom and subs will call you out in regards to jumping straight to something as potent as sub, it happens time and time again. You've already made my point with plain leaf, so I'm kinda done here. Why do you keep trying to prove that opioids aren't a cure for withdrawal, who's even said that?

AgonyAndEcstasy781 said:

The cure for withdrawal is abstinence from opiate agonists, bupe sgould only be used to taper off, then stopped. If you can use kratom in that way, great.

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I posted here that abstinence from opiates is the cure for withdrawal, not opiates.

I was dependent on kratom tea before I moved onto FST. I've been dependent on every opiate agonist under the sun, you didn't "call me out", i speak from experience.

I don't blame you for deciding to bail out and discontinue our "argument", i find you are standing on weak ground and specious logic anyways. I'm still convinced you are dependent on kratom judging by your reaction.

If it doesn't get you high any more, why on earth keep drinking it? Have you developed a taste for that foul brew?

I am currently going through tapering/withdrawal from oxycodone. I can tell you that Kratom is helping me immensely along with taking Gabapentin. Do we really need to give more money to the pharmaceutical companies to purchase suboxone? It's nearly impossible to get suboxone as it is, not to mention it's extremely expensive. I'll take my chances with a plant based drug.

Seriously @Agony is it really necessary to get so high and mighty? Kratom helps many people detox and treat the pain symptoms so that is not insignificant. I can tell you right now that compared to cold turkey detox vs my current tapering using Gabapentin and Kratom it is like night and day. The last thing I want to do is develop another addiction with suboxone. There are some people who can exercise self-control and use kratom responsibly. That's my 2 cents. Did I mention I'm going through withdrawal? Okay good. Let's all try to keep an open mind.

kayaker318 said:

I am currently going through tapering/withdrawal from oxycodone. I can tell you that Kratom is helping me immensely along with taking Gabapentin. Do we really need to give more money to the pharmaceutical companies to purchase suboxone? It's nearly impossible to get suboxone as it is, not to mention it's extremely expensive. I'll take my chances with a plant based drug.

Seriously @Agony is it really necessary to get so high and mighty? Kratom helps many people detox and treat the pain symptoms so that is not insignificant. I can tell you right now that compared to cold turkey detox vs my current tapering using Gabapentin and Kratom it is like night and day. The last thing I want to do is develop another addiction with suboxone. There are some people who can exercise self-control and use kratom responsibly. That's my 2 cents. Did I mention I'm going through withdrawal? Okay good. Let's all try to keep an open mind.

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That's great that its helping you immensely, it absolutely eases withdrawals. Used the way I described, subs can be used without developing an addiction, amd.kratom use can also create an addiction. Why would the self-control you describe not apply to bupe?

I've never found subs expensive or hard to get personally, you can taper with a couple strips that can be purchased dirt cheap. You might be willing to take your chances with a plant but at least with bupe you new exactly whats in it and how much. I do agree that focusing on pharmaceuticals to the exclusion of natural medicines is a bad idea, but again im speaking from experience, not speculation,

Regardless, to each his own. Kratom will def ease withdrawals, of course you feel better on gabbies and kratom compared to cold turkey haha, just be careful.or you'll have to kick those also. No easy way out when it comes to opiate withdrawal

Lol yeah, you really put up a "strong" arguement for bupe 8)... I just wanted to simply call out a a couple of your mistakes and point out a few things you apparently didn't know about kratom. Ie. that kratom is also a partial agonist with an even lower dose ceiling, or that FST has been tested and show to contain no kratom alkaloids whatsoever, and that it's speculated by many reputable people to contain a synthetic full agonist... yet you wanna get all butt-hurt because I actually challenged some of your claims. It was never even my plan to argue which is a better maintainance drug, I kind of just reeled myself in once you started driveling false info.

Considering I came and corrected some of your incorrect info on kratom, I call it a success. I couldn't care any less what you think, I just wanted to come in here and provide a level playing field for people to make their own choices whether or not they want to seek out kratom or bupe based on true facts. Why would you expect me to stick around and argue with someone who already has his/her mind made up? Obviously quitting cold turkey is better than switching... nobody has even said otherwise. That doesn't mean that people can't utilize kratom to their advantage, because all it takes is a search through TFSE to see that it's been done time and time again.

Btw, you did kinda post this... so you are trying to prove that opioids aren't cures for withdrawal, something never said.

Regardless, kratom is not a cure for opiate withdawal.

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CaptainKratom said:

Lol yeah, you really put up a "strong" arguement for bupe 8)... You haven't said one thing that's gonna sway anyone, I simply called out your mistakes and you wanna get all butt-hurt because I actually challenged your claim. Considering I came and corrected some of your incorrect info on kratom, I call it a success. I don't care what you think, I just wanted to come in here and provide a level playing field for people to make thwir own choices whether or not they want to seek out kratom or bupe, no shit quitting cold turkey is better than switching... again, nobody has said otherwise.

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I thought you were done? I simply put forth my owm thoughts based.on my experience. I've found kratom to be helpful in easing withdrawal, but overall a poor choice compared with bupe. It's not my job to sway anyone, that's not why I'm here, but i will certainly defend what I said. I don't feel butthurt by you "calling me out", and i suspect you probably lack the experience that I have, and are currently addicted to kratom, but that's your business.

I will say that I'm finally at a point in my life where I'm non longer dependent on any opiates whatsoever, no small accomplishment for a down and out junkie like myself. I've tried every method of maintenance and detox. Rehabs,.detoxes, sub doctors, kratom, jail, methadone clinics, chipping. Personally, what broke the dependence for me was finally becoming so disgusted with the person I'd become that i had to stop. Obviously not everyone gets to that point.

Again, kratoms short half life, euphoria, side effects, and unknown quantity and quality of active ingredients make it a poor choice in my book.

CaptainKratom, how do you find kratom maintenance is working for you?

Okay let me clarify. Tapering drugs to get off opiates is less horrific than cold turkey. This should have been my statement above regardless of whether I'm using Kratom and/or Gabapentin or anything. Neither alternative is pleasant.

My point is let's not knock one method of withdrawal over another. Some are successful on Suboxone. Others prefer using anything other than Suboxone. It amazes me that in the US only a minority of doctors in a given area are licensed to prescribe Suboxone. And they can only take a very limited number of patients. So it's nice to know we have options.

Several years ago I investigated Suboxone and weighed the pros and cons. It was hugely expensive. Insurance didn't cover any of my doctor's appointments, etc. ad nauseum. We all like to know we have choices while detoxing but unless we've got lots of cash to spend, our options narrow. Same goes for alcohol detox options but that's another story.

^ true, I've never had a problem finding subs on the street, but i resize this isn't an option for everyone, and kratom does provide an alternative that's easier to get. Its good that it's there at least.