The Refugees, the Army and the Boat...

Is it just me or does anyone find the actions of the Government AND the support of the Opposition absolutely sickening... these people need HELP!!! they are being fucked with in a bit of political chicanery... will someone KICK that miserable bunch of MOTHERFUCKERS we have in parliament... i've had a fucking gutful... this country makes me ashamed of being australian... we defy human rights and other things... MAY KARMA BITE EVERY AUSTRALIAN WHO SUPPORTS THIS IN THE ARSE!!!!
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-d0nuth0e-
I'd like to shout out for my friends... you lovely, lovely people... I hope you know who you are...
Wikkidness... a part of life since the first ape man did the second ape man in the pooper...

What's the point in whinging without offering any options for a solution??
Plazma what do u propose should be done in this situation????

Ok, now I can understand that, these people do need help. However These people are a drain on Australia's resources.
It is sending an important message to the hundreds of thousands whore are thinking of boarding a boat to Australia.
The cost of looking after these people, let alone the cost of assmilating (sp) them with the Australian public if their time comes is astonomical.
Yeah in a perfect world it would be great if we could accept every refugee but the fact is we cant. I'm sure you'd be ranting and raving if they hiked your taxes to pay for all these people.
The world isn't black and white, sometimes you have to do things that are distasteful but really are for the best.

Alright BMW... i will accept you as being correct...
PsychoKitten... i'm really fired up... SO DUCK!!!!
You are merely proving by your statement that you are just as dumb as the rest of australia... you have been suckered into thinking that these people are a THREAT! these people are often fleeing from situations that WE HELPED TO CREATE!
In Afghanistan these people have no way of applying for refugee status because we have no diplomatic connections there... THIS IS THEIR ONLY WAY OUT!
Solution! This is a country that has BEEN BUILT on refugees and people fleeing from other countries... we NEED MORE TRAINED PEOPLE! we need more doctors, teachers and other educated people, these people are often well educated and that is the reason they are fleeing...!!!! They should be WELCOMED!!!
We have only had 5400 refugees arrive so far this year... this is a miniscule ammount... countries in europe accept up to 60 000!!!! we are accepting FUCK ALL!!!
I would not bitch about a raise in taxes... because i CARE!!!
For fucks sake have a conscience and be nice people...
it makes me sad...

^^^ agreed, but realise that you can't speak for everyone and that there are many out there who think we should not recieve them. I believe we should. I just see it as more of a grey area.

plus i like to play devils advocate.

If they went through the correct procedure and came into our country legitimately fair enough, but sneaking in the back door on a boat and hoping no one will notice is not on.
They come in their hundreds with barely any money due to them paying the people smugglers a rediculous amount to get on the boat to begin with. Then told about the paradise of Australia where everything will be fine, truth being most of them have no idea what the country is actually like and that they arnt actually welcomed when their dropped on our doorstep.
If we keep allowing these people to come and then making hard working taxpayers pay their food, accomodation and medical bills then they will keep coming. Why do you think they all come here rather than indonesia or whatever, obviously cos we're soft and we let them in then feed and house them.
I know it sounds heartless but Australia's economy is allready in a bad way we can't afford to look after every war torn countries homeless.
If the government puts their foot down and says enough is enough eventually the idea that Australia isnt a free ride will slowly be relised. Sure not everyone will be happy with this and I know this thread will almost surely result in heated argument but enough is enough.
Almost surely australia will end up receiving these people as indonesia have firmly said no and the norwegians have made it clear they want no part of this. In this situation the captain of the vessel must be in an extremely awkward situation stuck in the middle of the channel being told he cant land anywhere while he was just doing what any humanitarian would have done and saved some folk from their sinking vessel and now look what he's stuck in the middle of, a heated political situation.
There will be no winners out of this, there is not a possible solution were everyone will be happy. The boat people will kill themselves or the captain if he takes them to indonesia or back, the Australian will sink them if they come to Australia, If they do come to Australia we will pay for it.
I cant see anyway this could be resolved peacefully. Somebody will be pissed off no doubt but I dont think we can keep housing these people.
[This message has been edited by Fry-d- (edited 29 August 2001).]

i don't see how this is Australia's responsiblity, a ship was sinking in International waters, a Norwegian vessel picked up the 400 odd refugee's, and the ship came from Indonesia, and now its Australia's responsiblity ? if we take this load in just like the last lot at Christmas Island, we can expect an swarm of refugee's coming to our shores, this situation has nothing to do with Australia, if anyone should take them it should be Norway, as they are the ones who picked them up. Before you tell me that Australia is being unsympathetic aswell because they were rescued from a sinking ship, look at all the refugee's we have already taken in and the way they treat the facilities and guards who are looking after them, the riot, go on hunger strikes, destroy property that isn't even theres, its a joke, why should we let more criminals in our country?
just my view.
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Bars.

i can see there's going to be some headkicking before i'm finished here... so without further ado... i'll begin...
Fry-d- ARE YOU STUPID OR MERELY BLIND! these people have NO LEGITIMATE WAY OF GETTING HERE!!!
read my above post... we have no embassy in afghanistan where they can apply for refugee status... the same applies for iraq, iran and many other middle eastern countries!!!
Wet Muzik... uhhh where to begin... in the unlikely circumstance that you, given your privelaged background and position were in the same situation as those refugees, i doubt you'd see it like that... i see some people need real empathy rather than merely drug induced stuff!!! And if you got locked up after escaping to another country with your life without having committed any crime but escape certain death... WOULD YOU BE PISSED? YOU BET YOU WOULD!!!...
Australia is turning into a pariah state... WE ARE BECOMING THE NEW SOUTH AFRICA! we are the only country that has mandatory detention for refugees... we should be ashamed!!!
anyone else looking for a shafting...?
fucking have a heart people... HAVE A BRAIN TOO!!!
*exit plaz stage left*

I know its harsh, but basically I really feel that they shouldnt be trying to come here in the first place. I even agree to Wet to some degree.
If we allow them into the country we cant just let them float up on our shore then just wander into the city as if they are an Austrlian Person, they need to be held in detention and processed in due course. Problem is theres to many of them coming and we cant cope with this.
We try to look after them and while their waiting to be processed they trash the very accomodation and centres we have provided for them.
They cannot expect us to just let them in in this way.
If they came and went through the process and didnt kick up so much shit it would be a different story, but they dont. They come to Australia expecting us to look after them and then cause riots because they blame us for their problems because we cant cope with so many of them coming in.
Just imagine the state of the country if people could just come in as they pleased. I mean come on the country would be a nightmare.
[This message has been edited by Fry-d- (edited 29 August 2001).]

^ this is why our country sucks guys and gals... because ignorance and stupidity reign supreme...

Plazma, this is not an issue you will be able to convert peoples thinking on. Everyone has made valid points, like it or not. I think it's great that you have such passion on this subject, but realise that many people have the same passion for the opposite view.
There's no point calling people names just because they have another point of view, you're just invalidating any point you have made by coming across as somebody who doesn't think any view other than your own can be right.

The vast majority of these people are from Iraq. A nation which ourselves and our collective western nation has imposed a trade embargo. Thus, under the ideal of freeing people from Saddam Husseins rule, we are starving them to death and refusing them refugee status when they come crawling to our door. The double standards here sicken me.
In fact, it reminds me of the incident during the Second Word War where a shipload of Jewish refugees escaping from Nazi persecution circled the globe looking for a port in which to recieve sanctuary. They went to Britain, America and even Australia but were turned away at each port. Eventually they were forced to return to Germany, where without exception all of them were sent to the death camps.
It seems we have learned little. Sometimes we have a responsibility to humanity itself, not just our own blinkered interests.

thoth! i am very glad to see a like mind here... thank you...
psychokitten... i know... but one thing that gets me angry is callousness, ignorance and hatred...
sometimes i just could fucking top myself...

It is not just a simple few that dont want these people on our shores.
A survey held by channel seven showed 87% were against the ship landing on christmas island.
Australian troops have allready boarded the ship and turned it arround once due to it coming to close to the coast.
John Howard is trying to pass a new law TONIGHT so that this sort of situation can be avoided.
Finally the government has relised this is a problem and it should be stopped.
....and plazma if you think I'm wrong and ignorant please correct me but I do not see any ignorance on my behalf.
[This message has been edited by Fry-d- (edited 29 August 2001).]

uhhh yeah the government's ANSWER to this particular PROBLEM will allow them to tow the boats back out into international waters, even if they're sinking and just leave them... so i'm hoping it won't get passed... and Fry-d-... why would you deny these people the things that you take for granted?

Sorry, but the world is FUCKED. I hope you never find yourself in a situation of dire need, only to be denied on the basis of some flimsy political pretext Fry-d-.
We do not often reflect on how good we have it here, and even less on how to share it.

But unfortunately that is the way the world is, as much as I'd love it if the world was a big happy land theres no way it will happen. There is rich countries and poor countries and I cannot see it happening in my lifetime that some super power will gather all the wealth and redistibute it amongst everyone and then tell us no fighting now children we are all the same and we all have to be nice to one another.
A utopian society is just no practical. Some people just seem to crave power and other world leaders just seem to like causing rifts amongst things. The world is in a shit of a state and I do agree with what you are saying but I still beleive that letting these people onto our shores is not a good solution. Sure it will solve the problem for now and these people can be fed and sheltered. But then what?
I know its heartless and I know Australians take what we have for granted but if we were to share and Just let anyone in with no screening or processing what so ever the lifestyle that we now take for granted would be nonexistant and we would soon enough be living in the same way as the countries these people are escaping from. Taking the extreme viewpoint eventually the money would run out there could be food/water shortages or whatever. Then the original Australians would be blaming the refugees and riots/wars could break out. Now this will never happen but thats the way I've been thinking about the whole situation.

Fry-d-... i'm left speechless... i really am...
and believe me... it doesn't happen often...

So plazma, are you saying we should open the doors on immigration, that we should accept all people who turn up at Australia's door?