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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

NEWS: SMH - 2/1/03 - A night out: just add water

trog

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 27, 2001
Messages
129
Article about the law changes about to take effect here.
Under the latest rules, licensed venues, including restaurants, will have to provide "free or reasonably priced" water from January 10 to help patrons drink safely. Gone are the days of the tiny bottle of water for $7.50 at a fancy nightclub. Gone are the days where the only water available was washroom hot tap.
Water must be:
"Cold or chilled"
Still, not fizzy
Not flavoured
Not contaminated.
Tap water:
Customers may be asked to pay a "nominal" charge.
Bottled water:
Must be cheaper than alcoholic drinks, and $5 would be considered "expensive". Details to be defined during industry consultation.
Source: Department of Gaming and Racing
:)
 
its good that they are finally recognising things like this, i know ive avoided getting water in some clubs because i cant afford the shit...
I think this mite help combat some of the date rape that seems to be rife atm...
 
or, it may deter people (like myself) buying an alcoholic drink just because its the same price- or cheaper in come cases!!
thats excellent news!
 
^ Agree totally - I used to go to a club that charged $3.50 for water and the same price for a glass of champagne... didn't drink much water there as I figured at the same price I might as well have the wine...
BigTrancer :)
 
ive often wondered. obviously alcohol will not sell as much at a "raveing sort" type club or even at raves.
so, i can understand the venues or the promoters charging those sort of dollars for water, because quite simply more people tend to buy water.
i wonder sometimes how certain clubs make money when everyone is sitting down and not doing much else. then again, my train of thoughts runs to the line of the club owners have a vested interst in what keeps those people on their arse....
just a thought.
comments? possible even anyone who does, or is familiar with club runnings?
 
I think it's a very important issue that needs to be addressed, because having cold water easily accessible to people is necessary harm minimisation IMHO. Clubs that supply water that's either expensive, or unpalatably warm, deter people from minimising the risks associated with dehydrating due to alcohol or other drugs.
BigTrancer :)
 
I would REALLY REALLY like to have the law/by-law that this is. I've been out a few times now in an environment where everyone was drinknig cept me, and i got charged $7.50 for a bottle of watter!!
Now this new law is in, i wanna have it printed out and carried with me @ all time, so I can show the bar staff. Coz they just argue with me and I just give in....
 
that is sweet, finally promoters may be forced by Keynesian economics to break even by providing quality events, rather than use water sales to profit take
 
OK- I'm a bit confused. I was always under the impression that any licensed venue was obliged to provide free water when asked. I have many friends that really get a gleem in their eye and roar out in righteous anger when they have been drinking steadily during the night and some bar staff says 'No we only sell water in bottles'.
Selling water. Its not on.
This article is now implying that by law venue's can now demand that all water be paid for?
 
I've just had a poke around on the Dept of Gaming and Racing website and found a link to this information sheet.
Under clause 86F of the Liquor Regulation 1996 (and clause 50B of the Registered Clubs Regulation 1996), water must be sold or supplied at or near liquor service points,or by the same way as liquor is sold or supplied (such as by waiter service).Drinking water must be provided free,or be sold to patrons for a reasonable charge.
Clearly,directing patrons to use wash basins in a venue ’s bathroom to obtain drinking water does not comply with he regulations. The Minister for Gaming and Racing can issue guidelines about what constitutes a “reasonable charge ”for drinking water.Those guidelines will be developed in consultation with he liquor industry over the coming months.
While the "reasonable charge"guidelines are being developed,he Government expects that where venues provide drinking water in a glass from a tap (or by similar means),then it should be free or nominally priced to reflect any minor costs associated with the service.Venue operators can also comply with the new law by selling bottled water at a reasonable price so that it is cheaper than alcoholic drinks.
The new laws do not apply to off-licences –such as liquor stores and wholesale businesses.
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
ABOUT WATER IN LICENSED VENUES
How must I make drinking water available?
If you supply liquor at a bar or counter,the drinking water must be available at the same bar or counter,or nearby (such as via a nearby drinking water fountain or dispenser).If you supply liquor by waiter service, the water must also be available by waiter service.
Is it OK to only sell bottled water?
Yes –so long as it is reasonably priced.Further information on what is a reasonable price will be provided to industry in 2003.In the meantime,it is fair o say that bottled water should be cheaper than alcoholic drinks,and charging prices like $5 or more for a small bottle of water is considered expensive.
Can I charge for a glass of tap water?
Yes –so long as it is reasonably priced.Further information on what is a reasonable price will be provided to industry in 2003.In the meantime,any charge for tap water should be nominal only to cover service costs,and should certainly be less than the price of bottled water.
When will the Minister issue guidelines as to what is a “reasonable charge ”for water?
The guidelines will be issued following consultation with he liquor industry.That consultation will occur during January/February 2003.
Can I provide drinking water for free?
Yes.
Which liquor licences do the new laws apply to?
The new drinking water laws apply to hotels,clubs, restaurants,nightclubs,motels,caterers,community liquor licences,vessels,function licences,heatres, wine licences,and any other licensed venue that sells or supplies liquor for consumption on the premises.
Do the new laws apply to liquor stores and wholesale licences?
No.
What is the penalty for not providing drinking water?
The new drinking water requirement is a condition of a liquor licence or certificate of registration. Therefore,complaint action can be taken where a licensee or club does not comply with this condition. Under existing complaint provisions of he law,he penalties available to he Licensing Court include a reprimand,a penalty of up to $22,000,and suspension or cancellation of a licence/certificate.
From a link to an earlier Liquor FAQ it appears that licensees did NOT previously *have* to provide drinking water (I thought they did too!) as a condition of all licences, though it was a condition on some licences (hence the confusion?)
Do I need to provide free drinking water if I have a liquor licence?
While there is no legal requirement to provide free drinking water for patrons, most responsible venues do so anyway, as it is widely recognised as an important harm minimisation measure. As an example, many restaurateurs also provide bottles of chilled water to their patrons as a value-added customer service strategy, which has the benefit of slowing down drinking by diners.
Harm minimisation conditions require licensees to ensure that non alcoholic drinks are available at all times at a cheaper price than full strength beer and other beverages. Some venues are also required by their licence to provide chilled water free or at a nominal cost to patrons.
[ 06 January 2003: Message edited by: trog ]
 
Clubbers Left High and Dry
Reports by Amanda Banks
PARTY goers are being refused free tap water at some Perth nightclubs and are forced to pay up to $4 for bottled water.
Industry insiders say some premises may be taking extreme steps, such as running warm water and soap through taps and lowering taps to stop bottles being refilled, to boost sales of water.
There is no legal obligation for licensed premises to serve free tap water, but health and consumer authorities recognise the importance of water to rehydrate users of alcohol and other drugs.
Nightclub operators are partly blaming an erosion of their market due to extended hotel trading hours for the decision to charge for water in a bid to recoup costs.
Some proprietors say the popularity of illicit drugs, such as ecstasy and amphetamines, also has reduced alcohol sales. Preventing drink spiking and providing water which can be consumed on the dance floor also have been cited as further reasons for selling bottled water.
Clubs contacted by The West Australian charge between $2 and $4 for a bottle of water. Based on Water Corporation figures, a 250ml glass of tap water costs about one thousandth of a cent.
Most hotels and some nightclubs say free tap water is provided on request, but a number of clubs admit selling only bottled water. Operators say it is their right to recoup the cost of providing entertainment, staff and facilities, especially from patrons not buying alcohol.
Australian Consumers' Association spokeswoman Gail Kennedy said Australians enjoyed good quality water and should not be pushed into buying bottled water.
Susan Leivers, acting director of the prevention branch at WA's Drug and Alcohol Office, said water was vital for people consuming alcohol and other drugs. She said providing free water was ideal, but selling water at a moderate cost was a positive step.
WA Liquor Licensing director Hugh Highman said providing free tap water could be imposed as a condition of a licence if alcohol was being served irresponsibly.
Mr Highman empathised with licensees' efforts to recover costs. He was aware of concerns raised by cabaret licensees on hotel hours, but said the market was changing.
Australian Hotels Association WA branch executive director Bradley Woods said free water was a matter of responsible service.
But Mr Woods said it was not necessary to require licensees to provide free water, describing WA as an over-legislated nanny State.
Restaurant and Catering Industry Association of WA executive director Terry Bright said there were reasons to charge for water.
"The water still has to be chilled, it still has to be served, somebody has to wash up the glasses," Mr Bright said.
Two interesting articles on the state of water in Perth night spots. Found on the web at The West Australian
 
This is great news! Talk about a step in the right direction.
:)
 
I used to tend bar in a club where we under "instructions" not to give glasses of water away. In the toilets they had signs MANUFACTURED in copper that read: This Water Has Been Treated: And Is Unsuitable for Drinking!
The Management
Pretty nasty signs, considering, they were true (technically) but designed to scare. And we were supposed to be...a community!!
[just editing my grammar]
[ 18 January 2003: Message edited by: aesops ]
 
At least now we don't have to feel like we should dehydrate due to our lack of funds...water is essential alcohol is not! Drinking water should not be a priviledge of the rich...
So therefore water should be either free or as the quotes stated, less than the price of an alcoholic beverage by far :)
 
personally,
i think if people can afford to get to a club, pay to get in a club, take drugs in the club and then get home from a club,
they should be able to afford to pay for water, if not your a fuckin tight arse or should have a look at your priorities!!
if clubs didn't charge money for water, they mightn't be able to afford to be open. i don't mind spending 15bucks on water in a night, it keeps me from dehydration and puts some money back in2 the clubs, so they can stay open!
anyway thats my 2cents
 
$15 for water is a bit steep, new_piller, especially since not everyone on this board works in IT.
$15 would get you 4 x $3.50 bottles of water - and 4 bottles doesn't really go very far over the course of a night, I'd fill up a bottle more than three times in one night, especially if I'd been drinking alcohol as well.
It's nothing to do with priorities - we live in a country where free drinking water is paid for by our taxes, we should be able to refill from a tap as many times as we need to... clubs and events recoup $$ by charging cover fees. I'd rather pay $5 more at the door than not be able to fill up my bottle at will.
 
Originally posted by new_piller:
personally,
i think if people can afford to get to a club, pay to get in a club, take drugs in the club and then get home from a club,
they should be able to afford to pay for water, if not your a fuckin tight arse or should have a look at your priorities!!
if clubs didn't charge money for water, they mightn't be able to afford to be open. i don't mind spending 15bucks on water in a night, it keeps me from dehydration and puts some money back in2 the clubs, so they can stay open!
anyway thats my 2cents

I have to say i agree wholeheartedly here...Its funny the only response that ever appears to the simple economic argument - that clubs/bars/pubs are BUSINESSES and as such are only in existance to make money for their owners...not to be real nice and provide people with a place to hangout just for the hell of it - is the whole "harm minimisation" spiel...if people are so obsessed with this then they can A)stop taking drugs or B) spend the money on the water...If you are so bloody tight, stay at home, or go to your local goat track (slang for crap pub) and get free water there!
 
Which ever way you look at it, it doesn’t pay to have someone expire in your club. Water is a life essential, just like clean air. If you create an environment which is undeniably associated with drug use, IMHO there is at least a moral obligation attached to make it as safer an environment as economically feasible. Free water should be well included in any minimum standard.
From assisting countless people suffering severe dehydration - giving out free water when allowed, and buying those a drink when not - any economic argument like that mentioned, doesn’t hold much water for me (pun intended!). Adding a water charge to the door price installs a message of HM from the start and shows punters that management is concerned for their wellbeing. Profits are also maintained.
I think this could make far better economic sense than currently endorsed alternatives. The major problem as I see it is sponsorship. Most bars do a deal with an unmentioned mixes supplier. Water is likely to be subject to minimum orders, just like other items (Just try to get a club to take on a cheaper, even better quality alternative brand and see how far you get). This factor also has considerable political weight against instigating free water regulations.
But in a world governed by health and safety, it’s a joke on bureaucracy to allow this to prevail when other dangerous environments are so tightly regulated. I’m not saying I would want to see clubs controlled in such a way, but if club managers took a proactive stance now, it may delay some inevitable health regulations of the future.
Some clubs have excellent air conditioning, and provide cool free water – not from a toilet wash room. These are examples of sensible managers/operators, who appear to regard their paying patrons in much the same way as a shop owner values his customers. I wouldn’t hesitate to ask for free water if I was spending the equivalent in a shop that some people do in one club.
 
It's interesting that one of the clubs currently bitching about giving free water doesn't have a cover charge.
I was at a club on the weekend where they apparently turned off the a/c so the fog from the smoke machine wouldn't disappear so quickly. At least they provide free water. This is with ice and from the bar tap as well, not the toilets.
A water fee at the door is a good idea. This could allow for "free" tap water and cheaper bottled water.
 
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