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help me help a journo - answer these questions

johnboy

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My name is (edited) and I am a reporter.
At present I am working on an article about ecstasy and whether-or-not it is really dangerous. The article will also feature important things to do before, during and after taking ecstasy. Visiting your site, I am hoping, will be one of the things-to-do before taking ecstasy.
I'd like to ask you some questions and get your thoughts on what you think the dangers of taking ecstasy are... Also what you think are important things to take into consideration.
He then sent the following list of questions:
  1. What is the purpose of your website, pillreports.com?
  2. What would you say to someone who hasn’t taken ecstasy before but is thinking about doing so?
  3. What are some tips for first timers?
  4. What should someone do in preparation before taking ecstasy?
  5. What should someone do during their ecstasy high?
  6. What should someone do when they come down?
  7. Should you induce vomiting if you feel sick after taking ecstasy?
  8. A common myth about ecstasy use is that you have to drink lots of water, but then it can also be very dangerous. What is the truth about water consumption on ecstasy?
  9. Another common myth is that it is bad to drink alcohol before or after taking ecstasy. Is this true? Please explain.
  10. What are things to look out for when taking ecstasy? For example body temperature, etc.
  11. What are your experiences with ecstasy?
  12. When buying a pill, what should you do to make sure it is not harmful?
  13. Do you believe that ecstasy can affect your natural serotonin levels?
    Explain why or why not.
  14. Do you know of anyone who has died due to ecstasy?
  15. We are told that ecstasy causes permanent damage to the brain including memory loss and depression. The studies that caused us to come to these conclusions are largely based on tests performed on animals and tests taken with long-term users whose drug intakes are not limited to ecstasy. Do you think we can take these results as formal knowledge?
Help a busy admin out and have a go at answering some of these. Pick one, hopefully one that someone else hasn't attempted, and have a go! Please include the number of the question you are answering so I can keep track of it.
[ 27 June 2002: Message edited by: johnboy ]
 
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8) It's not a myth that you have to keep your fluids up, but the term "lots" of water is deceptive. When people are told they should drink "lots" of water sometimes they assume that the more water they consume the better. This isn't the case. Excessive water consumption can lead to something called hyponatremia, or water intoxication. This can occur when an individual ingests excessive amounts of water (minimum of 3 litres), leading to a drop in blood sodium levels. This can lead to water entering brain cells under osmotic pressure. This makes the brain swell inside the skull (cerebral oedema), which puts pressure on the brain stem. This can cause brain damage, seizures, paralysis, respiratory arrest, coma and death. (definition taken from the Hyponatremia FAQ written by babydoc_vic). To help prevent this when on MDMA, it's a good idea to limit yourself to 250ml's each hour (500ml's if active and sweating). Also if you drink sports drinks then body salts will be replenished, reducing the risks also.
[ 19 June 2002: Message edited by: Pleonastic ]
 
9) This is another myth with a basis in fact. It links back to the whole water consumption issue to a certain extent. Alcohol requires water for your body to process, and when you're dancing as many do after consuming MDMA, you're sweating water out, so the end result is that Alcohol dehydrates you, as does the dancing/MDMA, this has lead to people suffering dehydration related symptoms and lead to it being popular myth that Alcohol consumption and MDMA do NOT mix. This is not necessarily true, as long as the user is careful to consume more water/non alcoholic fluids than normal (though still stay within the safe range of 250ml - 500ml per hour), and be moderate with respect to both drugs they should be not be significantly more at risk than from normal consumption of MDMA. Something important to note however is that combining the two will increase the load on the user's liver, leading to greater liver damage, and increased body temperature as a consequence.
(edit) I hope this is ok, feel free to delete if it isn't.
(edit again) Fixed spelling.
-plaz out-
[ 19 June 2002: Message edited by: plazma ]
[ 19 June 2002: Message edited by: plazma ]
 
12) There's no way to actually make sure a pill is not harmful. Every time anyone takes a pill they're taking a risk. There's no point denying that. That said though, there are a number of things that can be done to reduce the risk.
The most important one is testing your pills before consumption with a series of reagent testers. The way this is done is by taking a small scraping off the pill and placing a drop of a chemical on it and observing the colour changes. These changes are compared with a chart and a better idea of the presence of certain substances can be gained. A positive test does not guarantee a good pill, but the testers are invaluable in sifting out the bad pills which might contain other substances or possibly nothing active at all.
Other things that can be done are taking the pill in halves, so if there is an adverse reaction there is less chance of harm (as there is less chemical in the body). Once the first half is working the second half can be taken to get up to full strength. Also it is not wise to mix different types of pills, as the different substances in each pill can react with each other in your body causing potential problems.
 
I just wanted to point out that regarding water consumption...if you are not at a rave or a club dancing and sweating then 500ml per hour is too much...250ml per hour is sufficient.
 
10). It appears that MDMA may alter your bodys ability to regulate temperature. Dancing for long periods in hot club environments can lead to hyperthermia (high body temp). Hyperthermia can lead to serious medical problems including rhabdomyolysis (muscle breakdown), which can lead to kidney failure. MDMA related hyperthermia is also linked with liver failure (see here0, and a condition called disseminated intravascular coagulation, both of which can have serious consequences. See Toxicity, MDMA.
One study has also linked high environmental temperature with increased neurotoxicity in rats, see Small changes in ambient temperature cause large changes in MDMA induced serotonin neurotoxicity and core body temperature in the rat.
MDMA users should try to stay cool by taking regular breaks from dancing, going outdoors or to the chillout room to cool down, wearing loose clothing, and by not wearing a hat while dancing (as this impedes heat loss).
 
.
  • What is the purpose of your website, pillreports.com?
    Pillreports.com - "Database for measuring the global quality of ecstacy pills".
    Essentially, pillreports exists to provide a classification system whereby illicit chemicals can be qualitatively tested, and the test results distributed to a wider audience, for the purpose of harm reduction.
    Moreover, pillreports serves to provide warnings on inactive or potentially dangerous pills, in an attempt to reduce the possibility of harm by using a 'rating' scale. Details are listed in pill reports regarding the physical characteristics, suspected active ingredients, regional location and subjective report of the pill effects. The physical characteristics allow the pill to be identifiable, the active ingredients are determined qualitatively using a simple chemical reagent, and the user is able to give a subjective account of the effects of the pill, if they have taken one. The pills are rated on a scale from 0-10, where a result below 2 generally indicates a warning about a pill that contains active ingredients other than MDMA, and above 2 is a sliding subjective scale of the quality of the experience due to ecstacy contained in MDMA based pills.
    .
  • What would you say to someone who hasn’t taken ecstasy before but is thinking about doing so?
    "Educate yourself about the effects of ecstacy, know what to expect. Be in good overall health before you plan to try ecstacy. Ensure that your ecstacy pill is tested and verified to contain only MDMA. Make sure that you take ecstacy in a comfortable location where you feel at ease, and try to do so when you're in a good frame of mind. Read Mini-FAQ and Big FAQ for information that may be of assistance."
    .
  • What are some tips for first timers?
    See above. Also... relax and enjoy yourself. Put on your favourite music and hang out with good friends.
    In the following sections I've included two-fold suggestions, first what's good for the ecstacy experience, and second what's good for the user's body...
    .
  • What should someone do in preparation before taking ecstasy?
    Before taking ecstacy its always good for someone to hang out with friends who'll be taking ecstacy with them later, and being excited about the prospect helps. Being in a good mood is overwhemingly helpful to a beneficial ecstacy experience. If they're taking ecstacy at home alone (for example), then they could make for themself a comfortable personal space that has everything they could want nearby, like drinks, music, lollies and such.
    Possibly the best advice prior to taking ecstacy, following ensuring that they're in good health and that they have a pill that's been tested to avoid adulterants, would be have a decent meal 5-6 hours prior to dropping, and maybe snack on bananas if they're hungry later. People tend to not feel hungry much after ecstacy, so ensuring that they have enough energy and nutrients to keep up is a must. (Also bananas contain a small amount of 5-HTP which is a bonus... see the above links to the FAQs for info). Multivitamins prior to taking MDMA can be helpful, as can magnesium supplements (to ease bruxia, or jaw clenching due to MDMA).
    .
  • What should someone do during their ecstasy high?
    Generally what feels good normally, feels excellent on an MDMA high. Listening to favourite music, being with friends, experiencing pleasurable senses, etc. are all often greatly increased pleasures with MDMA. However the entactogenesis aside, there are a couple of things people should do while on an ecstacy high.
    Firstly, staying hydrated is a must. If they are dancing or exercising heavily on MDMA, up to 350mL of water per hour (sipped when thirsty) will be needed to keep them from dehydration. On the other hand if they're just staying home and relaxing, then perhaps that much water every 2 hours is more like the requirement. Just sip when thirsty. Secondly, the other side of the coin is that when drinking a lot of water, they'll need to go to the toilet, so they should try to make a toilet break every so often. MDMA causes the brain to secrete anti-diuretic hormone, which makes people not feel like urinating, but they may need to try if they feel uncomfortable or in need.
    They should also try to stay at a comfortable temperature - in clubs or raves, while dancing, one can become overly hot... this can lead to excessive dehydration and undue stress on the body. Hyperthermia should be avoided, by taking breaks between dancing, sipping water, and avoiding confined, unventilated clubs. Also, alternatively one tends to ignore the cold when on MDMA too, so standing around in the backyard all night in a sweaty t-shirt will surely bring hypothermia. People should consider whether they would normally be hot/cold in their current situation and act accordingly.
    Having some chewing gum on hand can help to avoid chewing ones tongue or cheeks while on MDMA. Ecstacy tends to cause people to grind their teeth. See previous section for advice on magnesium supplements.
    .
  • What should someone do when they come down?
    Coming-down after an ecstacy experience is usually best in a relaxed environment with friends. I think it was pinger who once said to me 'you can come-up and peak with anyone, but it's who you come-down with that matters'... I've always found that to be true.
    My preference, would be to take 5-HTP, anti-oxidants such as Vitamin C, Vitamin E, green tea etc., perhaps a multivitamin too. Rehydration is helpful at this time, and while the though of food will be decidedly uninviting (usually) it can be useful to try and consume something light. Examples such as banana milkshake/smoothie, or fruit salad can be palatable in the worst of times. A cup of sweet milky tea can soothe a damaged mouth (from chewing).
    .
  • Should you induce vomiting if you feel sick after taking ecstasy? [/i]
    In my opinion encouraging vomiting can be a risky practice, because if a person is already dehydrated, then they will lose precious liquids. MDMA may make people feel nauseous in too-high an initial dose, which usually makes them take a quick vomit and then they feel much better. However: it must be noted that not all 'ecstacy tablets' contain MDMA, which means that if someone feels sick after taking any pill (regardless if it's been tested), then it would be prudent to seek medical advice without delay.
    It is far better to try and minimise harm when ingesting illicit drugs.
    BigTrancer :)
 
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13) Do you believe that ecstasy can affect your natural serotonin levels?
Most people feel their serotonin (5HT) levels are back to normal (judged mainly by mood) within 10-14 days following a single dose of around 120mg of MDMA.
Larger doses and chronic use patterns have been reported to sometimes result in prolonged depression. Caused by more severe 5HT losses (including enzyme depletion and neuron damage) such conditions with susceptible individuals may persist for several months.
A low dose of MDMA (~ <70mg) used intermittently will likely lower your 5HT levels for only a short period following use. Many users feel this may be reduced considerably and even completely if a small amount is taken with appropriate supplements before and after the drug.
 
A difficult one to answer but hey....
14) I have not known of anyone who has died as a direct result of ecstasy as I know it, MDMA. But saying that there has been reports of people dying as a result of taking substances they beleive to be ecstasy, such as PMA pressed into a pill and sold as ecstasy. For someone to actually 'OD' and die as a result of just injesting MDMA and not be affected by any other substance they would have to take quite a substantial dose, the LD50 for MDMA being about 6000mg. A fatality is more likely to be caused by dehydration or other adulterants. Chemical cocktails such as DXM and MDMA are extremely dangerous, so mixing different types of pills can also lead to disaster.
Thoughts?
 
7) Should you induce vomiting.
There is now point in this as usually by this stage the pill has broken down and entered the blood stream. If the user does feel sick, which isn't that uncommon, then don't fight it get it out so you can relax and enjoy the roll. But if you are sick don't forget to sip on water to replace the fluids lost. Antacid can be taken to reduce that sick feeling.
I have found in the past that some people do feel queazy during that 30min period due to anxiety. So just relax and let nature take it's course, chat to friends etc just try and not think about it.
Can't really think of anything else to add.
 
Adding to question 2)
Considering this is for a queer publication, it should be noted that HIV anti-retrovirals (specifically Ritonavir) can cause problems with the metabolism of MDMA in the liver. This can be potentially very dangerous, and has caused deaths in the past. People using HIV anti-retorvirals and thinking about taking ecstasy should speak to their doctor.
[ 20 June 2002: Message edited by: hardup ]
 
To add to Fry-d's answer:
I have not known anyone that has died as a direct result of taking MDMA, but there was a girl in Brisbane, Deborah Hanger, who i knew, but not "close" friends with. 1n 1995, she went to a then massive and took 3 pills (what she thought was ecstasy.) She felt terrible and was taken back to a friend's house (someone else i knew). It was there she fell into a coma and never woke up. It was found in the post mortem that she'd had 1 1/2 times the lethal amount of PMA in her body. Obviously she thought she was taking ecstasy. This event was not hugely publicised in Brisbane, possibly because Debbie was the daughter of a VERY high profile family...not sure though.
Another possible reason for death due to taking MDMA could be an over sensitivity to it. About 10% of the population of the world lack a liver enzyme called CYP2D6 (full name: 'cytochrome p450 isozyme 2D6', pronounced zip-2D6) needed by the body to break down MDMA. These people will have a substantially stronger and longer Ecstasy effects, as the drug is unable to be broken down and the person will essentially "overdose". This also ties in with Hardup's post, as Ritonivar is a protease inhibitor, which inhibits the function of this particular enzyme.
The same problem occurs when taking DXM & MDMA together as well, as the enzyme CYP2D6 breaks down both drugs.
Hope this helps :)
[ 20 June 2002: Message edited by: samadhi ]
 
Q. 14 ... Don't know if this helps but ...
Fatalities due to Ecstasy
an excerpt from Kalant H. The pharmacology and toxicology of "ecstasy" (MDMA) and related drugs. [Review] [191 refs] [Journal Article. Review. Review, Academic] CMAJ (Canadian Medical Association Journal). 165(7):917-28, 2001 Oct 2.
All of the severe forms of toxicity described earlier have been capable of causing death. In addition, there have been deaths due to “ecstasy”-induced depression that was severe enough to cause suicide,159 or to pre-existing depression in which the drug was used as the means of suicide.160 There have also been several deaths due to accidents resulting from bizarre risk-taking behaviour while under the acute influence of the drug,161,162 or to motor vehicle accidents involving either drivers or pedestrians impaired by MDMA.114,162,163 The varied causes of death associated with “ecstasy” bear considerable resemblance to those seen with amphetamine 164 and with PMA;165,166 the greater role of violence in amphetamine-related deaths may reflect a difference in the composition of the respective user populations.
As noted earlier in this review, the usual “recreational” dose of MDMA or MDEA produces blood levels in the range of 100–250 ng/mL, or 100–250 µg (0.1–0.25 mg) per litre. Most of the cases of serious toxicity or fatality have involved blood levels ranging from 0.5 mg/L to 10 mg/L, that is, up to 40 times higher than the usual recreational range. However, some have had levels as low as 0.11–0.55 mg/L, that is, overlapping the “normal” range and a little above it. This is an important point, because it demonstrates the degree to which the seriousness of the effects can be dependent on environmental factors other than the drug concentration.
All the fatal cases that have been located through a literature search are summarized in Appendix 1, which includes additional reference material 167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182 (available on the CMAJ Web site at www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-165/issue-7/ecstasyappendix.pdf ). Most of these cases are associated with the use of MDMA, but a number are primarily associated with amphetamine, MDA, MDEA, MBDB and other amphetamine derivatives. They are included here to emphasize that the fatalities depend on mechanisms that are common to all the amphetamines and not specific to “ecstasy.” After eliminating, where possible, cases that are duplicates of the same cases already reported by other authors and cases involving only amphetamine or methamphetamine rather than the ring-substituted derivatives, the search indicates a total of 87 reported deaths involving “ecstasy” or related drugs, in which the primary cause of death appears to be as follows:
· cardiovascular, including cerebrovascular 8
· hepatic 4
· cerebral, including hyponatremia 9
· hyperpyrexic 30
· misadventure (suicide, accident) 14
· unknown — insufficient information 22
It must be emphasized that what is described in the literature cannot be regarded as complete, because not every physician who sees such cases will publish case reports about them. For example, Lora-Tamayo and colleagues 163 present partial data on 16 fatalities involving MDMA, MDEA or MDA seen in a 2-year period in the Madrid laboratory of the Spanish National Institute of Toxicology, but none of these were reported in the international medical literature. White and colleagues 151 state that there have been 12 deaths caused by “ecstasy” in Australia between 1995 and 1997, but only 6 of them have been described in the literature (the same 6 described in 3 different papers). In Ontario, there have been 13 “ecstasy”-related deaths reported to the office of the Chief Coroner in the past year (Dr. J. M. Cairns, Office of the Chief Coroner, Toronto, Ont.: personal communication, 2001), but these have not yet been reported in the literature, though a manuscript by Cairns and Kish is in preparation. It is, therefore, not possible to estimate the true incidence of serious or fatal toxicity due to MDMA and MDEA on the basis of published cases.
----------------------------
I think to assume that ecstacy itself (not including PMA etc) is incapable of causing fatalities is somewhat naive.
 
2.What would you say to someone who hasn’t taken ecstasy before but is thinking about doing so?
Oh dear u want to try that?! On a series note. Its alot of fun but a big pain at times. Just make sure you are dropping it with an experienced user. so if something goes wrong they no wot to do and also for resurance that somethings your experiencing come with the high and are normal ie u should be feeling.
7. induced vomiting I think comes down to personal preferance. and Ill admit I sometimes indulge in this rather discusting rolling habit as a last resort. it comes from my third time on it when i just made the bathroom at my mates hotel where i spewed my guts out everywhere (no it definitly wasnt induced). So i kinda have this when in doubt go to the bathroom plan. Im probably going to get yelled at for saying that now.
8. A good guide for drinking water while pilling is small sips ever now and then. no drinking it like normal or skulling back when feeling dehydrated.
 
Q15. (ok - this one is tough ... but I will give it a go).
As the entrepid reporter suggests these conclusions are largely based on tests performed on animals and tests taken with long-term users whose drug intakes are not limited to ecstasy.
In support of this I found a great study that actually spent as much time pointing to the limitations of their study as to the conclusion (albeit an affirmative one): Buchert R. Obrocki J. Thomasius R. Vaterlein O. Petersen K. Jenicke L. Bohuslavizki KH. Clausen M. Long-term effects of 'ecstasy' abuse on the human brain studied by FDG PET. [Journal Article] Nuclear Medicine Communications. 22( 8) :889-97, 2001 Aug.
Limitations of the study
A kind of limitation of the present study arises from different patterns of drug abuse within the ecstasy user group itself. Ecstasy users also consume additional drugs, such as cocaine or cannabis, and ecstasy itself comprises a heterogeneous composition of psychoactive drugs. Besides methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) ecstasy contains other entactogenes such as methylenedioxy-N-ethylamphetamine (MDEA), methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) and methylbenzodioxolylebutamine (MBDB) in varying doses [39, 40]. These drugs differ in their specifity for the serotonin transporter (MDA<MDMA<MDEA<MBDB). In addition, ecstasy contains amphetamines in varying doses [41]. Finally, there are falsifications of ecstasy tablets containing caffeine or atropine, and even placebo. For these reasons the detected effects may not strictly be ascribed to ecstasy or MDMA abuse, although MDMA is, and was, the main psychoactive component of ecstasy [42, 43].
Data on cumulative ecstasy dose and time since last dose were obtained by self-assessment of the ecstasy users. Plausibility of these data was evaluated by testing of hair samples. Although there was an obvious discrepancy between self-assessment and hair analysis in only a few ecstasy users, these data are subject to some uncertainties. The shortness of most of the user's hairs restricted objective information about drug abuse by toxicological analysis of hair samples to at most the last few months. Both uncertainties due to self-assessment and uncertainties about the composition of ecstasy tablets rendered the detection of a correlation between cumulative dose and/or time since last dose ingestion and FDG uptake difficult.
The age-matched control group consisted of oncology patients from clinical routine. In general, these were not exposed to the same environmental factors as ecstasy users (‘raves’ etc). In addition, their psychical condition during PET scanning was rather different from the condition of ecstasy users, who were quite relaxed. This may introduce confounding effects [44]. However, it should be noted that the results of the analysis of the relationship of brain glucose metabolism and drug history in the group of ecstasy users are not affected by limitations of the control group.
The PET imaging protocol differed for ecstasy users and controls. In ecstasy users a 20 min emission scan was performed at precisely 45 min after injection of about 230 MBq FDG, while in controls an 8 min emission scan was acquired about 60 min after injection of about 370 MBq FDG. While the effect of scan duration and FDG dose on statistical image quality cancel to a large extent, there might be a systematic effect due to the different time intervals between injection and PET scanning. It is known that FDG uptake in the brain is still increasing at 45 min post-injection [45]. Therefore, the absolute FDG uptake, as measured by the standardized uptake value (SUV), for example, is expected to be higher in controls than in ecstasy users. However, assuming the same kinetic in all gray matter areas [46] this effect is cancelled by the image normalization applied, and, therefore, should not affect the results.
A further difference in the imaging protocol concerns the position of the individuals from the time of injection until the acquisition. While ecstasy users lay on a couch in the waiting room until they went to the scanner room, controls sat on a chair in the waiting room. However, due to radiation safety reasons controls were not allowed to walk around. Therefore, there is very little difference in movement activity during the uptake period, which is not expected to cause the observed difference in FDG uptake in the basal ganglia between ecstasy users and controls.
For the purpose of attenuation correction a post-injection transmission scan was performed with three rotating 68Ge rod sources in ecstasy users, but not in controls. Thus, attenuation correction for both ecstasy users and controls was performed by calculations based on a simplified model consisting of a uniform brain surrounded by uniform skull of predefined, constant thickness. These simplifications led to an increased variance of the FDG uptake within the group of ecstasy users and in the control group, particularly at brain levels at which the true skull thickness in a transversal slice deviates from the predefined value, e.g. limbic structures (cingulate, amygdala, hippocampus). In these areas calculated attenuation correction renders detection of differences with sufficient statistical significance more difficult.
The VOIs of the Karolinska Computerized Brain Atlas (CBA) were defined by manual segmentation of the atlas brain. Since segmentation was performed for both brain hemispheres independently, VOIs corresponding to the same structure in left and right hemisphere are not symmetric. In particular, they differ in size for some extent, e.g. putamen and caudate are slightly larger in the left hemisphere than in the right hemisphere, 8.60 vs 7.76, and 7.22 vs 6.68 ml, respectively. This may cause evaluation of the left structure to be less sensitive to remnant mismatch between the transformed individual brain and the atlas brain. This in turn may reduce the variance of ‘left’ FDG uptake, and thus, explain that statistical significance of our findings is slightly higher in the left than in the right hemisphere.
Prior to VOI evaluation each brain image was individually normalized to the average FDG uptake in the 15% brain voxels with highest uptake. This normalization implies that voxels with highest FDG uptake are not affected by ecstasy induced effects. According to our findings this assumption seems to be not fulfilled completely since putamen and caudate, which show the most significant difference between ecstasy users and controls, belong to the 15% brain voxels with highest uptake. However, since the total volume of putamen and caudate (~30 ml) is only about 20% of the normalization volume, the effect of a slightly reduced FDG uptake in these structures on the normalization might be neglected.
In the present work ‘hottest voxel analysis’, i.e. sampling the voxel with the highest uptake, has been used to characterize glucose uptake within a given structure. This approach is known to be susceptible to statistical fluctuations [47]. However, if applied to sufficiently smoothed data it has been demonstrated to be the best method of discriminating between groups of subjects supposed to differ with respect to glucose utilization within small brain structures [48].
In the statistical evaluation no Bonferroni adjustment (alpha adjustment) was applied to take into account multiple testing (number of regions of interest (ROIs), number of correlations). However, the regions showing the statistically most significant difference in the group means, putamen and caudate, were affected in both hemispheres. This would not be expected if the P values were small due to type I errors.
Therefore what can any study that hopes to look at elicit drug use conclude ?
Ecstasy abuse may cause lasting effects on central nervous activity in humans, with teenagers being at higher risk than adults.
While some may argue these studies don't prove anything - because of their limitations ... they are likely to be the best evidence we have and are ever likely to get!
 
13) Do you believe that ecstasy can affect your natural serotonin levels?
Of course it affects your natural seratonin levels. Usually your stores are rather full and little bits at a time get released. During ecstasy use your brain is flooded. It is said that 10-12 days is a generally good time to allow your brain to produce serotonin and store it. It takes a while for this to happen, unlike dopamine which is mainly used during speed. Your brain can reproduce this *really* fast compared to seratonin. This is why you can go on 7 day speed binges, whilst with ecstasy once your seratonin is gone you will not be able to get back that feeling for a while even if you take another 3 pills.
You may wish to check the dancesafe slideshow on exactly how it all works. It is very well worded for everyday people and comes with pictures that explain all. www.dancesafe.org
One note though: Whilst a lot of people say 'Wait 2 weeks before you use again' and give 10-12 day timeline, remember that for some users especially after heavy usage during the weekend you can feel a bit 'grey' for a good 6 or 7 days afterwards due to reduced seratonin levels. You really need a good couple of weeks of full seratonin levels just you can remember what feeling 'normal' is like. I cannot endorse a lifestyle of 'pill,1 week bad, 1 week good, pill, 1 week bad, 1 week good, pill' You are only feeling normal 'half' of the time. It may be quite rewarding to do this some of the time, but in a general sense you want to have more time spent living your life with full levels than living in the grey period.
 
Well this thread is going really well! Thanks for all the contributions everyone.
Soma: In your opinion, do you think ecstacy affects your natural "baseline" serotonin levels? When your serotonin levels return to 'normal', is the same as before you ever took pills? I realise this is a hard one to answer as there is relatively little unbiased scientific information on the subject, but I'm keen to hear everyone's view. Do you notice any prolonged changes of mood that can't be explained?
(OK so this is probably worthy of it's own thread due to the complexity of the issue but this is convenient enough since it's partially on topic).
BigTrancer :)
[ 22 June 2002: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]
 
Hmmm BT what you have asked me to refine wasn't really the thrust of what I was saying.
The 'natural seratonin levels' is a hard one to answer, me with my no neurochem training and all. I think all I was meaning with the 'of course it affects it' is because your levels are being drained by an MDMA experience, not that your usage of MDMA 4 months ago may result in you having still a slightly lower serotonin store than what you had 5 months ago before your usage. Then there is issues of receptor downgrading etc
Prolonged changes of mood that can't be explained? How long are we talking here? A week or so can certainly be explained - especially if you have had MDMA that previous week. Anything longer than that is hard for me to answer.
What I was really trying to point out was this - You are normally meant to live your life with all your brain chems there and working in a balanced state. You may choose to induce fluctuation via MDMA usage. I don't have a problem with that, it can be extremely rewarding. However I believe you really should spend more time with everything in 'balance' or the 'right state' or 'full levels' or 'close to what things would be like without MDMA usage' then in that period of time where MDMA has affected your chem levels - however long that time is.
 
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