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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Are all drugs the same??

belky21

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 3, 2002
Messages
111
I don't get it?
you open one thread on this board and you get people crying about how "all drugs are not the same" and it is not fair how the media seems to lump them all together.
You get comments like "Heroin and Cocaine are not the same as weed and pills cause they are addictive and bad" and the media and laws need to destinguish between them so ppl realise that there are good drugs and bad drugs!!
I agree that drugs are different, and I hate heroin users (only cause I have had bad experiences and have never met someone who has kept the habit under control) but I also don't respect ppl who abuse any drug regardless.
Then there are posts likeThis one that flame ppl for sayoing the same thing - and call them hippocrites.
OK sure point taken - they are all drugs and in a way these ppl are hippocrites, but they are only hippocrites if all drugs are the same - observe:
Person A does Drugs
Person B does Drugs
Person B says A is a loser Cause he does drugs.
Person B is a Hippocrite - damn straight!!!
But the real situation -
Person A does DrugH
Person B does DrugE
Person B says A is a loser Cause he does drugH.
Person B is not a hippocrite - simple as that, there is no contradiction!
Now the only question to be answered is this:
are all drugs the same - are we all losers?
Or are (as most people here tend to beleive) some drugs bad and dangerous, whereas some are safe and fun with minimal addiction and overdose potential in most ppl.
I want ppl's opinions????
 
It depends on your point of view.
They're all chemically different, but they're all drugs. As for what people in your society, or mine, think - what difference does it make?
BigTrancer :)
 
All drugs are bad and dangerous.
A moron is someone who abuses drugs.
Many people have managed to live full and rewarding drugs using just about every drug known to man.
It all comes down to moderation.
I honestly believe that marijuana is a less harmful drug than alcohol. Yet I have seen many people ruin their lives because of it. Is this the drugs fault? The persons fault? Or societies fault?
That really can't be answered. However, if you have a problem controling an addiction with a drug like marijuana, that in comparison, is not all that addictive, then move onto speed or heroin, then you're an idiot. I believe most drug addictions happen because people don't listen to what their body is telling them. If you are perceptive enough you should be able to recognise an addiction before it is too late.
I know people who use ecstasy recreationally. I've met people destroying themselves with the drug. I've met people who've destroyed themselves with heroin, yet I've also met a Rhodes Scholar who is a regular heroin user. Yes, exception to the rule, but shows there are people out there who can handle the drug.
I will never condone IV heroin use. I understand how addictive this method of drug use is, especially in this particular drug. However, if someone wants to make this choice, and I don't know them, then all I can do is hope they are smart enough to handle their decisions. If I do know them, then I will do my uptmost to make sure they are prepared for the risk they are undertaking, and to be there for them if it does go wrong.
I could go on and on, but I'll let someone else reply first.
 
Person A does DrugH
Person B does DrugE
Person B says A is a loser Cause he does drugH.
Person B is not a hippocrite - simple as that, there is no contradiction!You're not a loser because of the drugs you do - if you're a loser then you always were and always will be regardless. What Person B is implying is that certain drugs (in this case DrugH) will make anyone who uses it a loser, while using another drug himself (DrugE) which he claims will not (there's the contradiction, unless Person B thinks that he is equally a loser because of his own choice - highly doubtful). There's no scientific evidence linking drugs with social standings, only anecdotal evidence based on sketchy media sources at best.
If I came on this board and said that I used Heroin and then went on to claim that all those people that use Ecstasy were fucking morons, how would that be received? Would I not be a hypocrite?
[ 22 February 2002: Message edited by: Pleonastic ]
 
OT: Yeah you'd be a hypocrite Pleo, but it's cool to poke fun at the culture ;)
 
Personal judgements are completly up to you. The only problem comes in when personal judgements get in the way of helping people.
Bluelight is here to help all people with their problems. If certain people who use certain drugs don't feel welcome then we aren' able to help them, because they won't feel they can even admit what they are doing for fear of being attacked.
That is the bottom line as far as behaviour in this forum goes. Say what you want down the pub, or in your home, but when it comes to in here, unless someone is asking directly for opinions, we have to keep our value judgements to ourselves.
 
I dont follow u pleo??
where is the contradiction? If there is a clear distinction between the types of drugs then person B is not a hippocrite. He is clearly saying that this specific substance "drugH" is "bad" and it will lead to bad things.
Are you saying that all drugs are the same - Pill poppers should be thrown in the same boat as heroin users?
My question is - do people beleive this?
I dont. I think that someone can easily be fine with drugs like dope or pills, but get very addicted in a bad way to Heroin.
The destinction I make is that it is Phisically adictive - your willpower and personality no longer has any power over it. Your body will take over and u will become a Junkie.
sure there are a few exceptions to this, but they are exceptions, and there are not many.
but enough of my opinions, lets see what others think.
 
I'm not saying all drugs are the same, I'm saying all drugs are equal. It's the user that ultimately determines whether their life is going to be ruined or if they'll turn into a "loser" by using xyz drug.
In the scenario above, Person B is blaming the drug for causing Person A to be a loser, but uses a different drug which he obviously doesn't think makes people losers because he uses it himself. So he's classifying one drug as being bad and not another, when it's theoretically possible that someone else could have no problems with DrugH but allow DrugE to ruin their life.
I'm not saying that there's not a higher potential for abuse with heroin, I'm just saying that lumping all heroin users together in the "loser" category is hypocritical when you yourself use illicit drugs too (general comment, not directed to belky :) )...
[ 22 February 2002: Message edited by: Pleonastic ]
 
Pill poppers should be thrown in the same boat as heroin, absolutely. Why not? When used both can be an enjoyable recreational experience. When abused they can destroy your life. They are both illegal chemicals that can be potentially deadly.
I think drug users, and drug abusers are the ones who should be seperated. If someone makes an informed choice to use heroin, and use it safely and sensibly, then they can come party with me, if someone abuses the drug then they can fuck off with all the burnt out pill poppers.
Just another note, there is a diference IMO between a binge every now and then, and constant abuse. I think abuse is when the drug is significantly affecting your work/school/health/relationships/finances. If you use a drug, and all of the above are as good as if you weren't using, then I don't see the problem. If you can tell me how using heroin in this way is different to using pills in this way, I'd be willing to listen.
 
ummm, i don't mean to be the snot nosed little bastard who argues for what seems to be the non-pc side in this debate, but there is supporting evidence that heroin is worse than the various "party drugs".
i don't know the number of opiate related deaths from, however i am sure that it far outways the number of deaths from mdxx, meth, k etc. this is not to say that people don't die from these drugs as we in the bluelight community are all too aware.
nor has there been any campaign (or attempted capaigns) specifically targeted at party drugs use reduction, like we have seen towards heroin over the past few years.
legally, drugs are not equal. i believe (and this is MHO) that in most of our minds all drugs are not equal.
Australian Institute of Criminology has some interesting data about opinions on drug use and support for the various drugs. i know we all like to think that it's probably government funded and a beat up and whatever bullshit you like to push, but the numbers talk.
i make no assumptions or generalisations about the people who use various drugs - as per the person a / person b scenerio above - it is not mine or anybody elses position to judge another person based on our upbringing and experience.
sorry i havn't done better research and found better supporting evidence...
[ 22 February 2002: Message edited by: Global ]
 
there is supporting evidence that heroin is worse than the various "party drugs".
Worse in what way? And what evidence?
i don't know the number of opiate related deaths from, however i am sure that it far outways...
Backing up claims like these with figures would immeasurably strengthen your argument.
BigTrancer :)
 
theres a massive difference between plants and chems i think. With plants u know what u've got eh.
 
So is opium/heroin for that matter (from papaver somniferum). So is MDMA if you want to push it further (from safrole oil).
Hehe.
BigTrancer :)
 
want me to name about 4000 plants that are so toxic they will kill you in seconds?
 
Sure more people die from heroin related deaths than e-related deaths (at least as far as we know), but usually this is due to the fact that heroin is adulterated when it is sold. Thus, when users take it, they have no idea what amount they are actually taking. Heroin deaths would probably be rare if people got prescription heroin, and knew exactly what dose they were getting. Unlike MDMA, which can kill people via idiosyncratic reactions, via combo's with other drugs or related emergencies like hyperthermia, hyponatremia etc.
Heroin does not appear to be neurotoxic, like MDMA and amphetamines. Therefore I dispute the suggestion that other drugs are "safer" than heroin. If you were comparing pure pharmaceutical
heroin with MDMA or other amphetamines, I would say the amphetamines were the more damaging drug.
The current thinking amongst drug and alcohol workers (which I learned in a recent education session on the topic) is that while heroin causes physical dependence, in itself it is not some instantly-addicting drug. Belky21 said:
your willpower and personality no longer has any power over it. This is a common belief, that is not the accepted belief in D & A treatment. There are people who use heroin once or a few times and don't become addicted. Which suggests that people have to have a vulnerability to becoming addicted, which may be a result of the way there brain is wired, OR the fact they have few coping skills to deal with the harsh facts of life. Or it may be somewhere in between these two. Just like alcohol - some people can drink it socially while others develop addiction.
Also, physical addiction, as occurs with heroin or alcohol addiction is only a part of the problem. The psychological addiction, and the effect that use of a given drug has on a person's life is considered as relevant as any physical addiction in terms of D & A treatment. Therefore, you can be addicted to pot or party drugs even if you don't use them every single day.
Don't get me wrong - I believe heroin addiction is a serious problem, and I personally wouldn't touch heroin with a barge pole. But I think this idea that "party drugs" are cleaner or safer or less dodgy or whatever is a myth. And I have met plenty of people who are as addicted to "party drugs" or pot as any heroin addict is to heroin.
 
Drugs in and of themselves aren't dangerous. They are chemical compounds.
Human beings on the other hand are far more dangerous and unpredictable. We have the capacity to inflict much damage and pain when sober. Put drugs into the equation and you have a far more complex situation.
It'd be great if drugs were legal so responsible users wouldn't have to be jailed. But to be honest, I wouldn't trust some of the morons out there to be given ready access to powerful psychoactive substances.
People are dangerous. People on drugs can be even more dangerous. Thus known strong psychoactive drugs are illegal. At the end of the day I don't have a problem with that. They're only drugs. Lifes too short.............
 
There are people who use heroin once or a few times and don't become addicted. Which suggests that people have to have a vulnerability to becoming addicted, which may be a result of the way there brain is wired, OR the fact they have few coping skills to deal with the harsh facts of life. Or it may be somewhere in between these two. Just like alcohol - some people can drink it socially while others develop addiction.
And this is exactly the same as people who use mdma. Some can use it without addiction, but there are people who abuse it and do not feel like they are in control of their mdma usage, even though mdma is technically not supposed to be physically addictive. There seem to be many many many of these people Belky, so I wouldn't say that mdma is "better" than heroin. It seems that many people who abuse one type of drug, also abuse other drugs like alcohol, so it seems that it is the indviduals lack of restraint which makes them a "loser", not the drug they use.
All drugs are the same in that they all have the potential for abuse, however they all have their individual dangers which should not all be lumped together. This is what the goverments antidrug strategies have done, and one of the reasons they have failed in my opinion. The reality is that different drugs do have different dangers which should be discussed individually.
Sometimes comments, particularly to do with drugs such as heroin, are hypocritical. It all depends on what is said and in what context. I do think in some threads people accuse others of being hpyocritical when they are just trying to discuss a drug. It's the old faithful comeback when you don't have another!
The few ex-heroin users I have spoken to always seem to blame the drug themselves, so it is somewhat understandable that people think heroin= axis of evil! I suppose people who have drug problems of any sort often blame the drug themselves. Sometimes they may have a point, but often these comments are said by people who will not take responsibility for their actions.
yaddayadda.... oogabooga....
 
Originally posted by johnboy:
want me to name about 4000 plants that are so toxic they will kill you in seconds?
seconds? What administered intravenously? :)
 
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