Gothics, Emos and other subcultures: A Discussion

i dont really understand these people...

i talked to one wearing a deftones shirt the other day, i was like you like the deftones? he was like yeah (in his disgruntled manner). i asked what his fave cd of the deftones was, he didnt know, so i asked him which ones he owned, he didnt know. the way he acted it seemed as though he basically didnt know who they were, only that they made black shirts...
what? how can they do this?

another time, i was at a party, i was talking to another goth, and i we were talking about music. i said i liked a perfect circle, coz i do.. the answer was.. you??? how can you liek a perfect circle?? and then he walked away like i was some loser...

like what?? just coz i dont dress in black and wear makeup i cant like a band? what the fuck is this???

they sit there, congregating in the city in big groups, not smiling and looking miserable. i dont get this? how can someone just cut an emotion out of their lives- happiness

another thing, they look at people and make snide comments about how people are fitting into society, when reall they are just creating a society of themselves.
they make remarks about how people dress 'slutty' where all they wear is safety pinned shirts and slutty clothing except for the fact that it is black, short leather, fishnets, corsets, fuck me boots...
what is this, since they wear black its not slutty. they look like sluts.

this isnt all of them, just many of them.

i do not understand this idea of gothicness.

it seems that all they do is put themselves above anyone else. thinking they are better than other people
another thing, i never see people who are like in their 30's who are gothic, do they grow out of it? or do they decide that not 'conforming to society' is just a silly idea, coz in the end they have to

please discuss your views of gothic-ism of the youth and partial adult of today.

copper pillar, they guy who listens to nine inch nails, tool, a perfect circle and marylin manson without having to wear black or shun society

and one thing for the goth people out there...

you wear makeup? does this define you? does in make you? do you feel naked without the makeup? do you take it off every night? isnt that a hassle?
whats with the slow incorporation of col,our, the bits of red in the hair, then now in the clothes?
do you actually follow the gothic 'religion'? or do you know nothing about it?
would you feel naked without your black? what if you wore yellow or purple, what would you feel like?

just a couple of extra things i thought of

The word 'Goth' comes from the Latin term 'Gothiantim', a word used to describe indiviuals with Down Syndrome.

Goths are part of a subculture, started by the music which the purpose was to rip off Joy Division constantly. Goth Rock is simply Post-Punk with make-up. Making depression a fashion statement rather than a negative emotional state to be solved.

oh fuck you make me laugh michael

i'm not sure if there's enough material to warrant a whole thread on this, but i'll leave it for now and see what the response is like

as it is, i have something to add, as i was discussing this exact topic recently with someone.

basically my feelings are that anyone who takes it upon themselves to decide what other people should be 'allowed' to listen to, wear or act like, is an absolute fucking tard.

people should be allowed to do whatever makes them comfortable and happy - and the thing that shits me about people (gothics and others) who involve themselves in alternative lifestyles and then diss other people is that they don't seem to realise the hypocrisy of their actions....in that alternative cultures are inherently about expressing yourself as an individual, and by placing limitations on other people, they are directly contravening this ideology.

if people want to dress in gothic clothes, be my guest, but when those same people chastise others for their taste, whether mainstream or alternative, they can fuck themselves.

a friend of mine recently told me a story where a gothic girl walked into a party she was at, and remarked to someone "omg, it looks like a supre shop vomited in here". now while i find this comment amusing - as my friend pointed out, who the fuck do you think you are?

if people want to dress according to fashion, who cares? it's not like you fucking invented gothicism....you're just as much of a 'sheep' as them.

i think it comes down to basically defensive/pre-emptive mechanisms.

*broad generalisation ahead*

i would say that a lot of these people are so bent on trying to be 'individual', but at the same time, have it in their heads that 'mainstream' society is against them and disapproves, so they lash out before they get to realise that most people don't give a fuck what you wear, and if they do, they are not worth knowing anyway.

anyway. that is my rant of the day.

vote #1 MP for 'Rant of the Day' - (RotD)

I hadnt actually come across this culture other than via television until i did a trip to Melbourne a few years ago.

The streets seemed to be full of them like it was the latest craze down there.

I came back home convinced more than ever that they were indeed a weird mob those Melbournites.

I dont have a problem with it, i agree with the concept that people can wear whatever they like (except for women wearing those god aweful tight thingoes that show every vile curve)


I didnt realise they figured they were not conforming to society..........I spose they are but really i think that is more about a state of mind and the way you view the world more than just what you wear.

Fashion means nothing to me, i wear what I feel comfortable in.........pure and simple.

But I dont consider that means i shun society.............. I shun society by looking at the world through violently different eyes than most do.

If it makes em happy...........who cares.

I view the whole Goth sub-culture in the same way as I view all other sub-cultures, ones struggle to define an identity that works for them. I say good on them.

In fact I actually like the look of some of the fashion and I definately like the music... but is just too damn hot to dress like that, it must be so uncomfortable. On top of that, the whole make up thing would be just way to frustrating

My girl used to be Gothic back in her teen's and it fascinated me.. much for the same reasons CuPillar.

She pretty much said that it was an angsty thing and a bit of a cry for attention from her and her friends.
It apparently took her up to 2 hours to get ready every morning.

I asked her how it was like when you give up that entire lifestyle and move on, but bump into your Goth friends later on... when you are dressed "normal" and they are still dressed like extra's out of an Anne Rice based local theatre production.

She said it was weird.

Cupillar

Mary Poppins said:

i would say that a lot of these people are so bent on trying to be 'individual', but at the same time, have it in their heads that 'mainstream' society is against them and disapproves, so they lash out

Click to expand...

^I'd have to disagree with you here, Ms. P and others. .

I think gothic culture is a love of all things dark, brooding and emotional - some parts of our lives and culture that many people ignore or just pass on by without a second thought.
I don't think they're on the whole [sweeping generalisation x 2 ] preoccupied with being individual - not in my experience anyhow.
It's more a fact that these people find various parts of the 'dark' of society interesting and aesthetically [and sometimes spiritually] beautiful.

So they wear different clothes, and they pierce themselves, and they make their skin white - - - it's only natural for them to gravitate towards others with similar tastes, no?
I don't necessarilly hang out with just ravers, or just internet geeks - - - but I am friends with an awful lot of them. .

Just my 0.2c. .

^^ (CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT) yep that's how I see it.

I'm not a "Goth" but have always found angst & depression incredibly interesting. Mind you, I'm not so much in to the outward appearance. Well not for myself anyway.

I've always kinda wished I knew some people in to Goth culture though -- not people who just think it's cool but people who actually believe in it as a way of life (so to speak).

I don't understand why they wear black plants and t-shirts/long sleeves in middle of summer...they must be making a lot of trips to the toilet to fix up their make ups after sweating under the hot sun/heat.

Especially these Queenslander Gothics.

*shakes head*

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:

^I'd have to disagree with you here, Ms. P and others. .

I think gothic culture is a love of all things dark, brooding and emotional - some parts of our lives and culture that many people ignore or just pass on by without a second thought.
I don't think they're on the whole [sweeping generalisation x 2 ] preoccupied with being individual - not in my experience anyhow.
It's more a fact that these people find various parts of the 'dark' of society interesting and aesthetically [and sometimes spiritually] beautiful.

So they wear different clothes, and they pierce themselves, and they make their skin white - - - it's only natural for them to gravitate towards others with similar tastes, no?
I don't necessarilly hang out with just ravers, or just internet geeks - - - but I am friends with an awful lot of them. .

Just my 0.2c. .

Click to expand...

but I am speaking about the goths (or insert other alternative style here) who actually condemn other people for their dress/music/whatever tastes - NOT all goths.

gravitating towards people of similar interests is fine, and a no brainer

Stop the rebellion!

For anyone who thinks Goths are freakin hilarious...

www.livejournal.com/users/rojo_moneybelt

It's written [albeit sporadically] by a friend and it's given me more than a few laughs. It's just a whole lot of this...

I managed to steal a syringe from the room. I am going to inject hate into my pet snake. I'm going to think of black thoughts and then draw back the syringe as i exhale, then i'll inject my pet with it. He will be such a death snake that even the most powerful of Warlocks, even Darkcloud who lives in Erskineville, will be helpless against my will. Darkcloud thinks he is so cool. I'll show him once i turn up at his house with my lips painted with black nail polish, hard and cracked, and my snake wishing hate upon his soul.

I painted my room black and i walked into the door at 3am while going to the death toliet. I hate love.

side note: No offence intended. See you at the graveyard in Newtown.

^^^^^oh god ROFL!!!
i always seem 2 end up dating goths, its tragic but interesting
i tend 2 like them cos they ARE often real individuals, but yes i hav met many goth wannabes as well
i like 2 try not 2 label myself as part of any particualar group or stereotype, no metter how hard you try u cant actually avoid being an individual so u mite as well go with it and not try to be anything but urself

i think i just dont like people who are different and shun everyone else who isnt different like them

depeche mode is one of my fav bands and yet i wear tight, white gucci jeans. do i require therapy?

think it takes a long time to get ready for a goth
try being a cyber punk (losly conected with the goth scean but much more intresting and happy (also a lot more geeky at times)) you kno wyou gone to far in the cyber scean when you start developing prosthetics to atach to your body to make yourself look more psyborg

i have been conected witht he goth scean for many years
and the denralisation you are making abotu them is a ignorant perseption of a small part of the scean usuly made up of the teeny gothers who have themself made the same ingnorant consept of the scean
a lot of older "goths" now refuse to acknolage they are goth because of this missconseption that every one who is gothic must be depressed suicidal and snide
yes it dose seam to atract a lot of damaged goods people wise (and trust me i have experianced my fare share of girlfriends who are major damaged goods in the head who were int he goth scean in sydney) but on a whole most of my friends who i have met through the scean have all be very happy and cheerful people who would me more likly to help and old lady across the street than push them infornt of the bus to see what would happen

Actually, you'd be surpised, goths aren't just exclusive to the younger genre of people and not all of them are depressed. I used to go to this nightclub called "Subculture", which is now called "DV8" I believe and we used to see alot of goths there having a good time, getting pissed, smiling, kissing, etc...
Actually, most goths I have come into contact with (not many) come across as being really intelligent people... and I don't believe there's anything that says to be goth you have to be depressed or hateful to other people and cultures.

Much like the candykid culture, there are stereotypes that have ruined the image for the others. and I think alot of Gothic people wear gothic clothing, because they are attracted to black and find it attractive looking. I have seen many a hot gothic woman with great bodies, great attire and awesome smiles.
I think alot of them just like the idea of being a member of a subculture and of course these people are sometimes going to shun stereotypes of other "subcultures"... thankfully, I'm not a member of any so it's hard for me to be stereotyped. I'm just me, myself and I. In-fact, I probably stand out so much, due to the fact that I dress quite plain andam a couple of years behind the current fashion. ie: I hate jeans, and love cargo pants/shorts, hate pink t-shirts, but love surfy clothes, still go for that skater/surfy look, but mainly because I feel comfortable and believe I don't look daggy. Heh, at least in my eyes anyways.

My way of seeing it is, they're not hurting anyone and they think they look good. So, why being critical of them? Just like these days, it seems to be really "cool" to give shit to people who are "emo"... seriously, just leave them be. Even those that aren't a member of a subculture are going to be critical about how you act/dress/wear... so none of that is just exclusive to Gothic people. Actually, I don't blame goths for criticising what other people wear, etc... it really is mundane.

Ragnarok: I had no idea the crack epidemic has hit Australia, damn you sure are living evidence of this.