which substances are Neurotoxic?

Hey... I was wondering which substances are toxic to the neurones in the brain.... I know that X_tasy is aparrently neurotoxic (with a signifficant degree of controversy about it) ..... L S D is not..... Alcohol is obviously neurotoxic and DXM in high concentrations as well (olneys lesions)....

So what about other compounds?

Mushrooms? Salvia? Cnbs?

does anyone know?

Ketamine is also said to be neurotoxic (frequent intake of high doses), but there are also some people who say it isn't..

i am not sure about research chemicals.. too much is unknown about them..

mushrooms are not neurotoxic.

RC's are probably we just don't know yet.

Amphetamin and methamphetamin is also neurotoxic.

does anyone know about salvia?

substantially neurotoxic: meth, amphetamine, DXM (in high doses as stated), nitrous oxide (whippets) , alcohol

mildy neurotoxic or not confirmed to be neurotoxic: MDMA, ketamine

not neurotoxic: LSD, salvinorin A (the active ingredient in salvia), cocaine, cannabis, mushrooms, opiates/opioids

I thought cocaine was pretty neurotoxic?

I don't think I would consider Nitrous substantially neurotoxic. From what I have read, the damage (if any) is only temporary and taking a B12 supplement can greatly reduce the numbness and tinling sometimes felt in the extremities.

Alcohol, PCP, Speed, Inhalants, Ketamine + N20(both rather mild, N20 is more neurotoxic), MDMA + associated compounds(probably), coke(I think), most sedatives(I think). That's about all I can think of.

i'm pretty sure coke is fairly neurotoxic

Benzos are neurotoxic (when used regularly) as well.

Cocaine is not neurotoxic. It is cardiotoxic (toxic to the heart) and it causes minor brain changes but it does not cause brain DAMAGE the way that neurotoxic drugs do. If you think it's neurotoxic, find a reputable study. I can tell you now that there aren't any.

Nitrous is mostly neurotoxic because of the B12 issue; taking B12 does reduce the toxicity drastically. But, nonetheless, for the average person a night of nitrous will reduce B12 to a level where damage becomes a concern. Many neurotoxic drugs become much less so when you take certain things to counteract the neurotoxicity; that doesn't make the drug any less neurotoxic however.

clinically, cocaine and opioids like morphine are pharmacologically safe in that they and their metabolites are fairly nontoxic

yes.. I have read, that taking tranquilizers like Valium prevents olneys lesion formation when using DXM.... any other such combos known for other drugs like for example E?

I just did some research and fairynymph is right, to my surprise (and pleasure for that matter) cocaine is not neurotoxic.

fairnymph said:

Benzos are neurotoxic (when used regularly) as well.

Click to expand...

Ummm...could you provide a link or some proof to back up this statement, I was under the impression that benzodiazepines were not neurotoxic. I could be wrong just want some proof yah know?

Ketamine is also said to be neurotoxic (frequent intake of high doses)

I would also like to see a link to this...

most sedatives (I think)

Your thoughts are wrong. In fact, opioids (non-synthetics) used orally in moderation are safer than marijuana.

Benzos are not neurotoxic.

"Addictive" does not mean neurotoxic. You can use valium or xanax for 20 years and not have any problems except the possibility of bad withdrawals were you to suddenly stop taking them.

In general:

Amphetamines
Methamphetamines
Dextromethorphan
Ecstacy(Debatable)
Ketamine(Debatable, I believe)
Alchohol
PCP
Inhalants
and Nitrous Oxide (Mildly)

Unknown if RC's are neurotoxic

*I would be interested to know if delieriants like Datura are neurotoxic, if anyone has the information available*
Concerning Datura, the only info I was able to find was from Erowid:
"All parts of the plant are toxic. They are ingested, smoked and absorbed topically especially through mucous membranes. The exact concentration of specific alkaloids varies with species, cultivation, environment, temperature, moisture, and storage. The range of toxicity is highly variable and unpredictable; toxicity may vary from leaf to leaf, plant to plant and season to season. This contributes to the danger of misuse of the plant since the dose cannot be predicted.(5,7) The highest concentration occurs in the seeds: approximately 0.1 mg of atropine per seed or 3-6 mg/50-100 seeds.(4) An estimated lethal dose in an adult is >10 mg atropine or >2-4 mg scopolamine.(5)"

It IS toxic, but the question is whether or not its NEUROtoxic.


Anyway, as you can see dimitri, a surprising number of illegal substances are not neurotoxic, but those that are are still widely used!

Um, this thread makes baby jesus cry. In fact, I think a mod should get in her quick smart. Because I've got two hours to kill, lets do a little liturature review to clear the urban myth air shall we?

Cocaine: Well, there is some evidence out there that cocaine might be neurotoxic to perinatal animals (1) but it seems unlikely that it is neurotoxic in adults (2) even though there is some evidence that persistance cocaine use does fuck people up a little (3,4).

LSD: I've looked before, and there is no evidence that LSD, or any of the hallucinogens studied, are neurotoxic (though sometimes I wonder about AMT, but there is no research there).

Benzos: Well I Couldn't find any evidence of anyone even looking for it. Which is because there is no reason for it to be neurotoxic.

Opioids: I found some evidence that opioids might make potential neurotoxins worse (5), but only a little that it mediates proper neurotoxicity(6). Sure it changes some neurons around in the Nucleus Accumbens, but that's not neurotoxicity.

Nitrous: Well, its two fold. There is the classic peripheral vit b12 deficency myeloneuropathy, but that only happens if your vegan and/or you take shit loads of bulbs for a long time. There's also the evidence that it is an NMDA antagonist and causes "Olneys lesions". (7).

NMDA antagonist neurotoxicity (NAN): What do I think of NAN/Olneys lesion? I think it is shit. I can't understand, that in a community that rips Ricaurte apart, listens to Olneys ideas. For one, he always uses those shitty "vacuoles" as his dependent measure, when as far as Im awear, there is no evidence that they are actaully deletrious to nerves health or action. Also, the doses he uses are MASSIVE. In article 7, I cited above, ketamine doesn't show a robust neurotoxicity till about 50-60mg/kg. He uses Sprauge Dawley rats, which are usually a bit sensitive to neurotoxicity anyways. Now, 50-60mg/kg... well in humans, anaesthetic doses of K are more like 2mg/kg. So even if we do the slightly dodgey 'surface area/volume' correction, (which is usually divide rat dose by 5-10) that is still 3-6 times higher than the ANAESTHETIC dose, let alone 6-12 times your average k-hole, and a 15-30 times your regular K trip.

And the evidence that MDMA and amphetamine are neurotoxic, with responsible use, is thin on the ground too...

*sigh*

Typically drugs acting on receptors arent as toxic as those acting on reuptakes..

Alcohol is neurotoxic merely because it dehydrates your brain.. It is really only chemically toxic to your liver, but a toxic liver, means a toxic everything.

Benzos, opiates, and LSD are chemically safe to your brain.. I.e., you die from their side effects, not because they are toxic. Perhaps some of the synthetic opiods may be toxic, like demerol, methadone, and propxyphene.

The jury is out with RC's, but some can definitely kill you(2-ct-7 beiung the main one).

Vaya said:

In general:

Amphetamines

Unknown if RC's are neurotoxic

Click to expand...

Amphetamines are debatable also. IMO and from what I have read up on, I don't think that they are neurotoxic. Methamphetamines are and MDMA might me, that is debatable.

How could we possibly know that unknown RC's are neurotoxic if they are unknown???

I said that it is unknown to the public if ANY research chemicals are neurotoxic, not what you said. Read it again.
"Unknown IF RC's are neurotoxic"
I'm guessing ya just mis-read it.

And I'm pretty convinced myself that amphetamine is neurotoxic following the massive response I got to my 'Amphetamine users please help' thread not too long ago.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105999&highlight=amphetamine

But I make no claim to "know" that it is neurotoxic.

Peace!