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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

which substances are Neurotoxic?

Ok, not to sound like an ass, but some of you are clearly not familar with my posts.

If I say something in the drug forums about drugs (not drug experiences), I've read scientific evidence supporting my statement.

In rabbits, midazalom has been shown to cause neurotoxicity in the form of brain lesions (Erdine S, Yucel A, Ozyalcin S, Ozyuvaci E, Talu GK, Ahiskali B, Apak H, Savci N. Neurotoxicity of midazolam in the rabbit. Pain. 1999 Mar;80(1-2):419-23.)

Long term benzo users suffer a variety of cognitive effects, even 6 months after they stop taking them (Barker MJ, Greenwood KM, Jackson M, Crowe SF. Persistence of cognitive effects after withdrawal from long-term benzodiazepine use: a meta-analysis. Arch Clin Neuropsychol. 2004 Apr;19(3):437-54.)

Just so you know bil, you get better results searching for BENZODIAZEPINE when you spell it properly. I even typed it out for you so you can just cut and paste. Also, people might take your posts more seriously if you spell things correctly in general. :)

The only reason that they (neuro)toxicity of amphetamine is still in any doubt is that drug companies make a fuckton of money off it.

The unbiased, scientific view of amphetamine neurotoxicity is VERY well established.

Also, my name is FAIR NYMPH. There is only one letter y. Thanks :)
 
silverfucked:

You can't generalize about drug mechanism and neurotoxicity. For example, meth is very neurotoxic, primarily because it acts on receptors; cocaine works via reuptake inhibition but is not neurotoxic.
 
lol, sorry about the name.

I would debate the benzo neurotoxicity, I can't find any reputable studies to indicate that benzos as a whole are neurotoxic. The study you quoted doesnt seem to be difinitive by any means, and only names ONE benzo.

I do, however, agree with you as far as amphetamines and cocaine and their toxicity. Even the NIDA admits coke is not neurotoxic, and I wasnt even aware amphetamines were ever considered non neurotoxic. K'dout, do you have any sources of where you read up on this? i'd be interested to see the studies.
 
I wouldn't categorize benzos with meth; I'd put them in my 'slightly neurotoxic' category in my first post.

The cognitive effects are the most disturbing; again this is probably only a problem for very long term users such as schizos, bipolar people, etc.
 
fairnymph said:

The only reason that they (neuro)toxicity of amphetamine is still in any doubt is that drug companies make a fuckton of money off it.

The unbiased, scientific view of amphetamine neurotoxicity is VERY well established.
Click to expand...

My point exactly, fair. Having read all that I have on amphetamines in general, I would DEFINITELY classify them as neurotoxic.

Feel free to prove me wrong, K'dOut;)

Btw thanks for the midazalom information, I didnt post anything contrary to it, but it was news to me.

Peace
 
Hmmm...

There are few threads where I've seen more misinformation tossed around as fact than this one.

No offense to those of you who actually supported your claims with *good* science, but:

Do not take anything you read in this thread as fact!

But since y'all are having a nice discussion I'll leave this open for a little while. Please though, if you're wondering about the neurotoxicity (or cardiotoxicity, or any other kind of toxicity) of a drug, please ask about that specific drug. Threads like this only encourage a free-for-all of misinformation.
 
Aliens_99 said:
I don't think I would consider Nitrous substantially neurotoxic. From what I have read, the damage (if any) is only temporary and taking a B12 supplement can greatly reduce the numbness and tinling sometimes felt in the extremities.
Click to expand...

It's not really neurotoxic when used as an anaesthetic when you're at the doctor's. But when you're just inhaling it form a balloon, there is a lack of oxygen, and significant brain damage arises over long-term use...
 
Bab's Uvula Who?

This thread consists of entirly debatable subjects with no real facts (with exception to Bliz0r) or links.

But if there anything that can be taken as truth

BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NOT NEUROTOXIC. END OF DISCUSSION

...I don't care who you are...
{Midazolam may be an exception but I highly doubt it}
 
^^^ Yeah, I'm in denial that a drug may be neurotoxic 8)

I could care less if a drug is neurotoxic or not but benzodiazepines are not neurotoxic and I'm sure a few people will jump in on this one in defense. Give me a link that proves your 'claim' and if you can't, I'm just talking to a wall that knows its 1,2,3s

{Not about that 'new' benzodiazepine Midazolam crap...that one might be...}

Please explain with facts why benzodiazepines are toxic to the neurons and how it 'destroys them' as a neurotoxic drug would do.
 
Interesting thread and I really don't know.

I've heard benzo use/abuse be blamed for the cholinergic deficits experienced by Alzheimer's patients and people with certain types of dementia.

I've also heard of benzos (like Kolonopin) acting as neuroprotective agents in certain cases.

I won't claim to know for sure either way and I really don't see how anyone else can. Anybody claiming to know the "facts" about neurotoxicity and benzos should post some evidence instead of expecting everyone to take their word for it just because they've got 1000's of posts here.
 
dont forget that depressants/dissociatives are neuro toxic over prolonged periods of time when your coming off them due to exitotoxic rebound (sp)

basically the way i see it is your braincells start cranking up to compensate for the depressed state... then when you take away the depressing chemical they keep going and going until they burn themselves out.

definately true in case of alcohol and possibly in the case of dissociatives (DXM at least, i read this in whites FAQ)
 
I'd tend to agree with K'dout here (about the benzos, i believe amphetamines are). I have seen no evidence indicating that benzos (with the possible exception of Midazolam) are nerotoxic, and most of what i've read in the past would indicate that they are relatively nontoxic.

If you can produce evidence of their neurotoxicity than I will gladly retract that statement being that I have no actual evidence proving they are not neurotoxic. But with what i've read in the past coupled with the fact that all i've seen here is hearsay, I'd lean towards they are not neurotoxic.
 
Now, not to get petty, but seeing as it seems that it has allready gone down that path somewhat, lets just have us a look at this supposed benzos are neurotoxic business.

For one, this obviously comes from an odd source "The Department of Algology", which is the study of seaweed (yes, I did have to look that up). But that's just more of an oddity, than an actaul rebutal. Secondly, they used a medical preparation, and not a research one. Again, and oddity, not really that bad. But, when it does it a bit funny, they injected the compound intrathecally, which isn't really that fair if we're talking about the compound, (fair enough if you're talking about the procedure, which they are). Then, if it was a NORMAL toxicology paper, there would be some actaul attempts at doing a dose response experiment. Now, again, you could say I was being picky, but then, in reponse to this paper, several teams have repeated the experiment and found nothing (1, 2) or only very slightly damage in old rats, (3). Indeed, there is evidence that it is just the procedure of intrathecal administration is neurotoxic (4).

Meanwhile, even if we say that midazolam is neurotoxic, which I think is a bit of a stretch, the idea that midazolam is neuotoxic doesn't mean that benzodiazepines are neurotoxic.
 
No, I just had to go give a presentation, and now that I'm back. The 2nd citation is also bad. It's not really their fault that its bad, just that the papers used are mainly bad.
  • 5 of the papers didn't age match the controls
  • Only 2 of the papers matched on education
  • All of the studies looked at people who had developed server dependence from the benzo usage
  • A couple of the studies had no control groups at all
  • I think only one studie used a control group which suffered from anxiety
  • No studies control for depression.

Most importantly of all, cognitive function doesn't represent neurotoxicity. For a drug to be a neurotoxicant, under the ICON definition, it must both negatively effect cognition/behaviour and cause a specific neurological change.
 
BilZ0r,

A smart man indeed, facts. I always read your posts as they seem to be the most accurate on this website, keep it up!

Fairnymph,

I have no idea why you thought benzodiazepines were neurotoxic, you can just admit that you are wrong, there is no need to defend your incorrect information.
 
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