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Zen Buddhism

Would anyone here be able to explain to me the differences between Taoism and Zen Buddhism?

Based on my cursory understanding of the two, there seems to be a fundamental common thread running through both ideologies. Which I would describe as, the recognition of the power and importance of ceasing to attempt to act a certain way, or to achieve a certain goal, or to take control of oneself; but rather, to allow nature to take over, and to exist simply as the wind blows, or the water flows, or the tree grows. Am I not mistaken?

If I am correct, where do these two philosophies conflict with each other?
 
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TheAppleCore said:
Would anyone here be able to explain to me the differences between Taoism and Zen Buddhism?

Based on my cursory understanding of the two, there seems to be a fundamental common thread running through both ideologies. Which I would describe as, the recognition of the power and importance of ceasing to attempt to act a certain way, or to achieve a certain goal, or to take control of oneself; but rather, to allow nature to take over, and to exist simply as the wind blows, or the water flows, or the tree grows. Am I not mistaken?

If I am correct, where do these two philosophies conflict with each other?
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Idk a ton about Taoism, but I think the main difference is that Zen makes a lot out of practice and discipline and I don't see that so much in Taoism. A lot of the concepts are pretty similar but I think Zen is more practical and methodical and Taoism is more abstract and sort of wishy-washy. Maybe someone who knows more can clarify this for me, too.
 
Psychodelirium said:
A lot of the concepts are pretty similar but I think Zen is more practical and methodical and Taoism is more abstract and sort of wishy-washy. Maybe someone who knows more can clarify this for me, too.
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Interesting. I got the opposite picture, for the most part. Although we'll have to wait for a more educated opinion to clear this up.
 
panic in paradise said:
even the answers, until you experience a truth
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Smart answer - I think........


Regards Zen & Tao - I do not know anything much - but I read that Zen originated in China ( possibly was then called Chan ? ) before it emigrated elsewhere, one could speculate that the source of both is one.
I can't tell the difference myself - and anyway it's a bunch of writings and interpretations which are trying to zap the message to you - every perspective is unique, cultures alter over time, I suggest they are the same thing reflected in the cultural mirror that faces them.
 
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I am fairly new to Buddhism, as well, but am learning from Tibetan Buddhists at a Buddhist Monastery near my town. My understanding is that Taoism is somewhat more scientific and that Zen Buddhism is really the combination of Taoism and Buddhism coming together in ancient Japan. Essentially Zen is Japanese Buddhism and is a more austere form of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism is more magical. Also I find that Tibetan Buddhist have a great sense of play and humor.
The bottom line is that both are essentially about compassion and about understanding that you cannot control anything in the world but what is inside you.It is wonderfully healing for people with anxiety, depression, addiction, fear, stress, grief, etc. What I love is that by changing yourself you change the whole universe--can't control it but can sure as shit affect it!

I listen to Pema Chodron's audio series called The Places That Scare You and it has been very helpful to me. It's in book form, as well--very cheap used on Amazon.
 
Books are great and all, but the important thing is just to practice zazen. Sure, if you need to know how to sit properly full lotus or in seiza then yes a book is fine. But once you know how to sit that's it. Just sit.

On a semi-related note, I've been practicing soto style zen myself for about 10 months. If anyone wants to chat or has any speific questions or anything like that, my inbox always has an empty space or two.

Gassho,
d_9
 
^made me think of this...

A precious necklace was seen flashing from the bottom of a lake. Many felt tempted to recover the valuable ornament and dived deep into the water for it, but found no necklace anywhere. Yet it was clearly visible to everyone from the edge of the lake. They were all puzzled. Eventually they realized that there was no necklace at the bottom of the lake; what they saw was its reflection in the water. They looked up and discovered the precious ornament hanging from a tree. A bird must have picked it up from somewhere and deposited it there.

God who dwells within you is the source of true happiness. In the objects of the senses this happiness is merely reflected. The individual, misled by birth after birth by having only a glimpse of this reflected joy, thinks that this is the real thing, namely sensuous delight. So long as one believes that true happiness can be had in sense objects without searching within, one will never taste true happiness. The kingdom of God, hence of happiness, is within you.

Anandamayi Ma the Mother Bliss-Incarnate, Anil Ganguli
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delta_9 said:
Books are great and all, but the important thing is just to practice zazen. Sure, if you need to know how to sit properly full lotus or in seiza then yes a book is fine. But once you know how to sit that's it. Just sit.
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I don't know if it's quite that simple. You're trying to find a particular state of consciousness, or "way" of being, and if you don't know what you're looking for, then you won't get anywhere, no matter how many hours you can sit in lotus without getting leg cramps.
 
You're not trying to "find" or "do" anything during zazen. The very act of zazen itself is the complete and total manifestation of the enlightenment of the Buddha Shakyamuni.

Edit - Finally had time to read this thread fully.
but I read that Zen originated in China
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Well zazen is the same kind of mediation the Buddha practiced for years before awakening. So zen orginates with Shakyamuni, who lived in Nepal. The original sangha sat in zazen and during his flower sermon, the Buddha transmtted his Dharma to Mahakasyapa, thus beginning the zen lineage which continues to this day.
 
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delta_9 said:
You're not trying to "find" or "do" anything during zazen. The very act of zazen itself is the complete and total manifestation of the enlightenment of the Buddha Shakyamuni.
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The point is, if you don't know anything about Zen, then whether or not you've attained enlightenment is meaningless, because you won't have any awareness of the fact, which is the magic key, and goal of the entire practice, as I understand it.

Put another way, if you don't know you shouldn't try to "find" or "do" anything, you'll undoubtedly end up in an endless and paradoxical search for enlightenment, because it is human nature to seek what we desire.
 
i do not say this to try and separate myself from you, but only in hopes
for you - or anyone to see that reading and studying, is ignoring your intuition,
your self, your connection with your light - there is no other - I squared

all paths are the same, all pantheons are merely an image of God, as we ourselves are.
 
TheAppleCore said:
The point is, if you don't know anything about Zen, then whether or not you've attained enlightenment is meaningless, because you won't have any awareness of the fact, which is the magic key, and goal of the entire practice, as I understand it.

Put another way, if you don't know you shouldn't try to "find" or "do" anything, you'll undoubtedly end up in an endless and paradoxical search for enlightenment, because it is human nature to seek what we desire.
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Well an initial enperience of enlightenment is usually very emotional, it would be hard not to notice. Hopefully, you would be practicing with a qualified teacher who could then verify your experience.
This is part of why the sangha exists. To guide the laity in spiritual matters. How do we know we should simply sit and cast aside all notions of enlightenment? Because if one is sincere in practicing, he/she would probably have already gotten in touch with a teacher and had some instruction. After only 3 months of sitting at home I found my teachers.
 
Big Language, Peaceful Context

it can try and get to me, how Dharma and Buddhism are what most people credit and recognize, but hardly ever is there mention of Brahman and Hinduism...when Shakyamuni himself was a Hindu, and Buddhism was Born out of Hinduism. hold on now, dont get excited - this is something you can and should most definitely learn and read about.

i understand the differences, but feel the Vedas should be followed completely if to be at all understood and followed, and that many of the practices and principles of the Vedas, are only there for the purpose and principles inclusive to themselves, and not a requirement to follow the Vedas with total devotion. so i see why Shakyamuni felt the need to separate from "Hinduism" personally - BUT - i also see Paganism as an umbrella term for for Earth Bound Faiths: Neo-Paganism.

comparing Hinduism to and Budhism to me, is like comparing Paganism and Wicca.



why is Buddhism so much more popular the Hinduism?!?
personally i look to Hinduism first, but, as some may of noticed,
Ayurvedic Buddhist practice is a a big part of my life now,
and is here to stay.
 
panic in paradise said:
i do not say this to try and separate myself from you, but only in hopes
for you - or anyone to see that reading and studying, is ignoring your intuition,
your self, your connection with your light - there is no other - I squared

all paths are the same, all pantheons are merely an image of God, as we ourselves are.
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#

I like this - I also like reading, but not to the detriment of myself
 
panic in paradise said:
.................
oh dear

~
the big torch;-) is visible, when you feel how complex simplicity is.
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Learning to love complexity simply makes everything in life easier.

I have to admit that I am always more interested in the philosophies within religions (or religious practices). Thinking that there are right or wrong ways to learn, to practice, to deepen or soften makes no sense to me. Each of the main religions has somewhere in its core a philosophy of striving towards compassion in our brief stay here. That is what resonates for me. Understanding that each of us is completely free to define and shape this striving within ourselves, using as much or as little structure as we each need, is what I hope for the world.
 
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