Benzos Z-Drugs vs. Benzos - How are they different?

[johanneschimpo]

Ludes came off the market in 1984, so I guess you just barely missed out. Anyway, I agree with your assessment of flurazepam. Its kind of like the phenobarbital of benzos.

 

[johannes kreisler]

I have some experience with zolpidem. irregularly used it as prescribed (->sleep) for quite a long time but at one point it didn't work any more. just made me seriously crazy.....

it took me some time to find out the recreational value of this compound. ~20mgs are defenitely kinda psychedelic on its on.
one day I thought it was a good idea [in fact it is probably not] to calm down a rather disappointing mdma-trip with zolpidem and it was incredibly awesome! it did not calm me down but seriously pushed me up. made me the nicest person on earth!...

 

[vonchampz]

I don't know all the pharmacology that well but from my understanding z drugs and benzos both work on the GABA system but z drugs have a higher selectivity and that is why they are hypnotic but don't produce the other aforementioned therapeutic effects that the benzos do.

The general consensus surrounding the differences in mechanism of action between z-drugs and benzos is the affinity for different GABA-A receptor subunits. GABA receptors modulate the neurotransmitter GABA, releasing it at necessary by different chemical messengers. Receptor subunits are generally proteins that surround the pore, activated by different drugs/ions/proteins, causing the channel to open longer close etc. In essences controlling the release of GABA in the brain.

Benzodiazepines are generally non-selective and bind to any GABA-A receptors that contain α1, α2, α3 and α5 subunits. Z-drugs bind to GABA-A receptors with those subtypes as well, but have roughly a 10x higher affinity to bind to receptors that contain a α2,β2,γ2 composition. Furthermore zolpidem has little affinity for GABA-A receptors with α5 subunits.

These binding differences are what accounts for the difference in their effects; the reason why benzodiazepines and z-drugs act differently on humans even though their mechanism of action is very similar.

Sorry for the length, just wanted to type out a short bit about the general differences in how the two different classes of drugs work. This should answer the OP's question....

 

[Prelude2TragedyII]

Okay maybe you were talking about something else but I thought phenobarbital was a barb and not a benzo?
I just got prescribed phenobarbital along with 6mg Ativan Daily....
Is pheno special at all? I've used it a few times, just makes me a tired,a friend took about 120-150 mg and they threw up , both times they took it, I did also notice it makes me a bit nauseated while I'm using more than 30-60mg

 

[johanneschimpo]

Yeah, pheno = barb, not benzo. I was saying that flurazepam feels like the "pheno OF benzos." Meaning - pheno is a barbiturate with a long half-life, and it can leave a nice zombifying hangover if you take a big dose. Flurazepam leaves a similar feeling (though not nearly as brutally as pheno does, IMO).

 

[sp0r]

Basically the one guy that posted that benzos are less addictive than z drugs is highly mistaken in that statement and most others in that post. It depends on the benzo and the z drug of course. The drug ezopiclone has a benzodiazepine receptor binding equivalence of 3mg ezopiclone = 10 mg diazepam.. Maybe that will help generally?

sp0r

 

[sp0r]

Basically the one guy that posted that benzos are less addictive than z drugs is highly mistaken in that statement and most others in that post. It depends on the benzo and the z drug of course. The drug ezopiclone has a benzodiazepine receptor binding equivalence of 3mg ezopiclone = 10 mg diazepam.. Maybe that will help generally?

sp0r

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Yeah, pheno = barb, not benzo. I was saying that flurazepam feels like the "pheno OF benzos." Meaning - pheno is a barbiturate with a long half-life, and it can leave a nice zombifying hangover if you take a big dose. Flurazepam leaves a similar feeling (though not nearly as brutally as pheno does, IMO).

If you take an adequate dose of flurazepam but not too much, you should have a really nice afterglow effect due to the active metabolites.

 

[xxl]

I've always found zolpidem the best sleeping pill in terms of the absence of after-effects the morning after. Tolerance to zolpidem develops very quickly however, even with reasonable, non-recreational use. I can't understand why people abuse sleeping pills and tranquilizers as a first-line drugs (withdrawal-induced abuse is another matter). These drugs are too useful to be rendered ineffective by recreational abuse. It's best to keep your doctor and your dealer as two separate individuals.

On the whole I think pharm companies know that their "new" drugs as every bit as addictive as older ones, but they always market the former as less addictive. By the time this is proven not to be the case, companies have already made a packet with the drug.

 

[Supeudol]

Depending on where the OP lives, doctors in the U.S. are not going to prescribe midazolam or flurazepam. As JC said, they are NEVER prescribed. They are legal but there are much better medications for insomnia which at this point in time U.S. doctors are taking advantage of. Temazepam has high hypnotic properties and is more commonly prescribed than valium. Ambien(zolpidem) has a short half life and is usually prescribed for people who are having trouble falling asleep. That might be an option. Another option is Lunesta(eszopiclone) with a longer half life for people who have trouble staying asleep.

There really is no need for a "buffer" between benzos and z-class drugs. A short simple taper will work depending on how long and the dose the users been on. It is just not necessary to switch to another benzo(valium) and then another drug like ambien(zolpidem).

Personally I have been on both zolpidem and eszopiclone and both worked well. I like eszopiclone better because of the longer half life, but thats just my opinion.

Excellent Post! Damn good post, and put straight. I am in Canada, and up here we don't have Ambien yet, we just have Zopiclone in 5 mg, and 7.5mg tabs, but I've never seen the 5mg tabs ever, doctors always prescribe the 7.5mg tabs. And I believe Zaleplon (Sonata) got taken off the shelves in Canada, but don't quote me on that one. But yeah ^^ there is absolutely no reason to be switching to Valium, because then you will have a worse monkey on your back, and Valium is very subtle and weak, and its effects only last for about 1-2 hours (Valium has a half life of up to ~ 200 hrs , depending on the person) yes, but that's because a lot of the diazepam metabolites are stored in the fatty tissue.

^^ And also if the OP was going to switch, Clonazepam would be a much better choice than Valium, as Clonazepam is more sedating, and also has a longer duration of "effect" than Valium does.

Anyways, Excellent post vonchampz!

 

[Sweet P]

As a side-question, is there much difference between zopiclone and zolpidem?

I'm on zopiclone, but have never tried zolpidem. I'm not sure if it's even available in NZ.

^^ And also if the OP was going to switch, Clonazepam would be a much better choice than Valium, as Clonazepam is more sedating, and also has a longer duration of "effect" than Valium does.

Oh yes, I've been prescribed clonazepam too... I've been taking it for about 6 years!

 

[Gormur]

zolpidem always makes me stay awake and trip out..altho i've been on benzos many times before, addicted, etc.. so it obviously takes a lot to knock me out these days. i find it addictive, but i notice it took me about 2 weeks to get physically addicted while benzos seem to only take about 4-5 days..altho tolerance to zolpidem rose much faster.. like within a few days of use i needed two pills (20mg) to get the same effect i got before

benzos and hypnotics both have hypnotic qualities, btw so i think the term is a bit misleading..

lorazepam is my favorite benzo for sleep as it is the only one that i've tried that does the trick, besides diazepam, which comes in second place for me- altho i prefer diazepam for everyday functioning... there is less of a hangover effect etc

on the other hand, alprazolam and clonazepam are basically worthless for me in terms of sleep, as they don't last long enough for me to fall asleep.. but then for other people they do wonders

everyone is really different in how they react to sedatives. it's really trial and error but i will say long-term both are bad and will severely compromise your quality of sleep and memory

 

[poppyplanet]

I personally think benzos are more addictive, but it probably depends on the amount and rate you're taking of each. I've never heard of a doctor switching someone from a benzo to a z drug, but I'm sure it happens.

*This is my first post as I've always wanted to become a member. You guys here give great advice and keep the topics very interesting. Thank you for the courtesy and safety you provide. This is going to be a great way to give and obtain information.

 

[monstanoodle]

Has it been completely established yet as to why Zolpidem (and with some people Zopiclone) gives hallucinatory effects?
I'd imagine it would be similar to how Muscimol causes hallucinatory effects, though I've never tried Fly Agaric except a taste of one when a friend bought a cap. It tasted like Soy sauce ^_^

What effects do GABAc agonists have? Could this have any connection to the visual effects of Muscimol? It's apparently also a potent partial agonist at the GABAc receptor.

 

[phr]

 

[debaser]

My doc told me he wouldn't prescribe me lormetazepam anymore (2mg/day). I've been taking it for 8 months, so I was a little worried and begged him for at least some zopiclone. He agreed reluctantly...

Anyway I'm beginning zopiclone now, I hope I won't go into full withdrawal...

 

[PerfectOr]

How has it been going with the switch to zopiclone?

 

[debaser]

^ Thanks for the concern. I happen to have a sh**load of benzos so I didn't switch to zopiclone yet

 

[zyNc973]

pills like ambien are extremely disorienting and toxic, and benzos are more like chill pills.
dont care for either of them, and after some bad experiences with ambien ive grown not to like them.
in some cases i like benzos... the ones im most experienced with are lorazepam and alprazolam.

 

[kokaino]

Depending on where the OP lives, doctors in the U.S. are not going to prescribe midazolam or flurazepam. As JC said, they are NEVER prescribed. They are legal but there are much better medications for insomnia which at this point in time U.S. doctors are taking advantage of. Temazepam has high hypnotic properties and is more commonly prescribed than valium. Ambien(zolpidem) has a short half life and is usually prescribed for people who are having trouble falling asleep. That might be an option. Another option is Lunesta(eszopiclone) with a longer half life for people who have trouble staying asleep.

There really is no need for a "buffer" between benzos and z-class drugs. A short simple taper will work depending on how long and the dose the users been on. It is just not necessary to switch to another benzo(valium) and then another drug like ambien(zolpidem).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomnia#Benzodiazepines

Personally I have been on both zolpidem and eszopiclone and both worked well. I like eszopiclone better because of the longer half life, but thats just my opinion.

First of all, there is no midazolam in the US. It comes in only one formulation (Versed) which is used ONLY in hospitals as a pre-medicant to surgery. Flurazepam is still prescribed, or else the pharmaceutical companies that continue to manufacture them would stop because they would be losing business and money on a drug that isn't being prescribed. It's still commonly prescribed. Temazepam and triazolam are the 2 best hypnotics in the US.

Temazepam is NOT more commonly prescribed benzodiazepine in the US. The 4 most common in order are alprazolam, clonazepam, lorazepam, and diazepam.

And to answer OP's question of how "benzo and z drugs are different" - go here.