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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

your veiws on free heroin trials

speedygonzales

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Messages
527
After reading this artical http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349078
I think its a great idea as long as it is restricted to only hardcore addicts. the fact of it being illegal does not stop people from using it and I myelf am anti heroin I have tryed it on numorse occation but not in the past 10 year and I don't see my self wanting free heroin if it becomes avaliuable. what are your views
 
10+ years plus or a serious life and life style threatning position but put in a supervised lock-in clinic until you taper off. Then they should help them hard to get a job. Thats my views.

Why shopuld G, alcohol or benzos users be treated any less than heroin users. A free/PBS dose of heroin daily is going to help 20% of that of the hardcore heroin addicts.
 
My view is... read the research. They've had prescription heroin for over ten years in Switzerland, and it works well for some people.

It might also be worth looking at injectable substitutes - plenty of people like shooting their bupe - why not provide it in injectable form in the first place?
 
I don't think it will happen. More profit in methadone, buprenorphine etc.
 
They wont be giving heroin out to people just starting out , only to people already on the done for a while. Then they will decrease your dose until your off it as from what ive seen in amsterdam.

The done is harder to kick then heroin itself from what I was told.


Its not like they will make Heroin free for anyone... Only those already addicted
 
I dont see why kratom has not been trialed in our counrty..
 
kratom was made illegal in .au 2 years ago mr samadhi
we had a massive tree in our back yard for almost 20 years, but as my mum is/was a research scientist for the department of ag, she was the first to be informed and the first one to tell dad to remove it, its not that great and gives me massive panda eyes if you hit/chew to much.

and free heroin?? great for some, however no gov will allow it

-mofo -



-mofo-
 
Somehow I doubt kratom would do any different too popping valiums or other downers to get off heroin.
 
Mitragynine & 7-HO-mitragynine, kratom's active alkaloids, are opioid receptor agonists, though most of their activity is at the delta rather than the mu receptors, which are the active sites of "true" opiates. Kratom has proven very valuable to some people in combating opiate withdrawal; unfortunately, it's a highly addictive drug in its own right.

If I ever had to go through hardcore morphine withdrawal -- which, provided I continue to be careful, I hopefully never will -- I'd definitely prefer kratom to benzos.

Mofo, at least one government already has a program in place to provide free heroin to addicts. Heroin addicts can generally be quite productive members of society as long as they continue to get maintenance doses of their drug. Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with providing free heroin to addicts, but I'm probably in the minority on that one.
 
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Splatt said:
10+ years plus or a serious life and life style threatning position but put in a supervised lock-in clinic until you taper off. Then they should help them hard to get a job. Thats my views.

Why shopuld G, alcohol or benzos users be treated any less than heroin users. A free/PBS dose of heroin daily is going to help 20% of that of the hardcore heroin addicts.
well my view is percentage wise the percentage of h users turning to crime to support their habbit is alot high than other substances though correct me if I'm wrong
 
true true all, speedy you are right about crime and addiction, however the same can be said about ice users " 27hours on the job, thanks ice " free herion trials would help a small percentage, however if this small percentage are crime free and are battling employment issues i have no reason to say no..

however living across the road from a methadone clinic, and seeing the line form from 6am, something does need to be done, however these are the same people that steal my paper and wake me up.. :)

i dont know maybe a 6 months on 6 months off rehab cycle would work wounders for some

-mofo-
 
^the great thing about opiates/opioids, is that there are a number of these drugs that are relatively safe to take on a daily basis for years on end. We can offer opiate substitution therapy (like methadone and bupe), or even heroin itself, because of this.

Meth/amphetamine however is a different story. There is no obvious drug that can be given safely on a daily basis. There have been some preliminary trials using dexamphetamine that showed some slight benefit. There is a modafinil trial underway at the moment at Turning Point - but that is for withdrawal, not maintenance. Also, the patterns of use tend to be different for heavy stimulant use v. heavy opiate/oid use. With heroin etc, you need it every day - with speed etc, you have a binge/crash cycle; this latter is inherently less suited to substitution therapy.
 
Re: meth addicts... Just put them on downers. There is probably a meth or pseudo analgoue that blocks dopamine action. Maybe even some of the strong anti vomitting medications would give less of a rush and they'd be on short term downers and counselling.
 
from memory i dont think heroin is illegal in the UK, it is still seen as a medically important pain blocker.

since the political intervention / threats of the US government through the UN; that "if Australia started a Heroin trial that our license to sell Tasmania's legitimate opium to pharmaceutical companies would be removed" being a multi billion dollar "taxable income" source for the Aus Gov they Caved to US demands.............

i think the point of the whole exercise would be to change the system that designates; legality, morality and bolstering of the importance and significance of this change to the world.

unfortunately there goes all the scare tactics of the government if they change society like that.....

then how do they exert control?????????
 
Good points mick.

I almost went to work for the Tasmanian alkaloid industry after receiving a job offer some time ago. It's a massive industry that supplies a considerable portion of the world opioid market. There's no way that industry would be left to suffer, but in saying that, the UN should be taken to task on such decisions/ threats/ coercion. Who or what body is the UN accountable to anyway, and how dare they control domestic policy in such ways? :X

If you've ever seen anyone in the last stages of a terminal disease where pain is substantial and lessened through high dose morphine, or a cocktail of morphine and other opioids, then you'd probably know that to adequately quell the pain, such high levels are often required that the patient is frequently left unable to communicate with family and friends during their final days. I've witnessed two situations where patients - of normally sound mind - were unable to recognise close family members :(

Heroin is much, much better in this regard as it doesn't 'steal' the mind/ soul like morphine does. While Morphine has its place in pain management, it's a hideous drug in high dosages, and nowhere near as effective as heroin for pain relief.

To think that H was used in Australia as recently as the 1950's. A relative of mine was a matron in those days and her stories are amazing. She also said even after it was banned (a call by the police - no surprises here) nursing staff in some hospitals continued to administer it (and a form of Bromptons cocktail) for several years until supplies were exhausted. The decision to remove heroin from therapeutic use disgusts her to this day.

So before heroin trials are introduced, IMO heroin should be made available to terminally ill patients, particularly those with certain forms of cancer. If and when anyone in my family is in this position, I'd have no hesitation in preserving the quality of their remaining time, whatever that involved. To do otherwise is simply inhumane :|
 
What about fentanyl for terminal cancer patients, that can be used even in home settings without injection.
 
From what I understand, fentanyl can be used in some instances, although it's pharmacology is quite different from morphine. I'm not sure how effective it is in some terminal stomach cancer situations where morphine is often ineffective. If the patient wishes to be conscious and coherent during periods of severe pain management, fentanyl as an analgesic, in many cases would be less effective than heroin.

The friend I mentioned in the thread started by juice_soldier (about his mum) has since been prescribed fentanyl patches. The patches are designed to last 3 days. While the pharmacokinetics are somewhat different for patches compared to other forms of administration, the pharmacodynamics are the same. My friend is fine for the first two days. On the third day he's in agony again, despite the fact that if anyone else uses the 'used' patch it's still very effective. It would seem his tolerance is also increasing, despite only having been on fentanyl for a few weeks. Fentanyl patches (Durogesic) are designed to last ~72 hours, where upon plasma levels fall quite rapidly. When he receives a new patch, due to pharmacokinetics, plasma levels rise more rapidly than from the earlier dose. There are also other aspects of absorption and clearance which makes it harder to control a steady state effect from fentynal.

As fentanyl is a CYP3A4 inhibitor and is a major substate for this isozyme, it's probably not suitable for patients who are also on medications which use this metabolic pathway, such as with some forms of cancer and HIV/AIDS treatments e.g. protease inhibitors. Morphine on the other hand doesn't metabolise via 3A4, as it's primarily metabolised by phase II glucuronidation (and slightly via 2D6). However, in saying that, in a great many cases, fentanyl is used in pain management in terminally ill patients.

Because heroin is more lipid soluble than morphine, it crosses the BBB more rapidly than morphine, making it faster acting. Heroin also has a shorter half life, and it's suggested it might be less emetic than morphine. Due to these variations in effects, smaller doses are required (than morphine) meaning the patient is often more coherent for a similar analgesic action from morphine or even fentanyl. All these drugs can cause severe respiratory depression, so low required dosage and fast clearance is often a distinct advantage and definitely better facilitates communication during periods of severe pain often experienced during the final days of life.

Heroin is still used in Britain and is list by Rang et al as: "Not available in all countries. Considered (irrationally) to be analgesic of last resort"

[Edit; spelling, grammar etc...p_d]
 
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