yin yang

[treekllr]

Heres my ?.. Why is it that when im using heroin i always want to quit, but when i quit, i only want to use?? Wtf, right? Am i alone in this feeling? What is this trying to tell me? What am i not 'getting'?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

That's the nature of addiction, we try to trick ourselves into believing that it's fine to use drugs and that there's no point in quitting, or other ways to rationalize use.

A lot of people find Suboxone or even methadone to be a good stepping stone to actual sobriety where they quit all drugs and not only the ones they have an addiction to. Some people find NA meetings or even non-12 step sobriety groups to be helpful as well. Stay safe.

 

[treekllr]

I hear ya..but i was rather trying to get at this 'thing'... that i hate being addicted, but i also hate being sober. 'Grass is greener..' kinda thing maybe. Ive quit a number of times, but i always look back at my time addicted with fondness.. conversely, when im using, i look back at my sober times with envy. I dunno, i know my words are vague, but i dont know how else to say it. But it seems important to me, and i think if i could figure it out, maybe i could stop th cycle. And really, i wouldnt care which i became, sober or addicted, if i could just be content with where i am..

 

[herbavore]

So work on being content inside and see which happens. I'm going to bet on sobriety.

 

[RedLeader]

You're craving comfort. When you're using, the comfort for a clean life (not having to chase the money and drugs, not breaking the law, not all of the waiting). When you're clean, you crave the comfort of numbed emotions.

While comfort is a good thing, and by all means you should develop sober activities that are comfortable (reading, hiking, meditation, etc), you should also attempt to embrace less-than-comfortable feelings. You titled this yin-yang. Try and see comfort/discomfort through the yin-yang lens, how one needs the other. If we were comfortable all of the time, we would stop appreciating it. If we feel uncomfortable and learn to conquer it, we gain feelings of accomplishment and self-esteem, which often feel way better than just baseline comfort.

 

[treekllr]

Ive been working on contentment half my life..rather poorly i might add.. Thats why i turned to drugs in th first place. And i went kinda backwards. I was very much into nature and yoga and meditation and all that kinda stuff. It was very rewarding, but still i felt like something was missing, some hole needing filled. But i did learn its not happy im after, its content. I like that about comfort. I know exactly what ur saying.. and i do know th rewards of discomfort..even before drugs i would seek out 'trying' conditions and situations, and nothing feels quite so rewarding as making it thru th brutal withdrawals ive experienced. But somehow i always turn back to drugs. That 'hole' is always there, lurking in th background..and nothing seems to fill it quite as easily as dope. And i know its not really filled, its just putting a thin sheet over it for me, but it seems better than nothing sometimes

 

[treekllr]

And let me say, im not arguing with either of ur points. I very much agree with u both.. but this is that 'thing' i dont understand, i just dont seem to get it right in my head or in my life..

 

[herbavore]

I can relate to everything you said. I don't have a problem with drugs unless you count sugar and then I have all the same infuriating addict behaviors as anyone addicted to anything. The ability to withstand the temptation to indulge in something that you know brings you immediate pleasure and comfort blocks out every other thought that you may otherwise use to restrain yourself--which in my case is utterly ridiculous because the immediate pleasure from eating is just as immediately gone and replaced by feelings of inadequacy, guilt and a sense of failure. These behaviors are conditioned in our brains and we are trying to unlearn them--it takes time, patience and commitment but it also takes a complete reframing of the concept of failure.

 

[treekllr]

Yes, i know what u mean.. and it seems, especially here in america, but also maybe just th times we live in, we are all taught from an early age to seek out and indulge in that 'instant gratification'..
And i personally dont take anybodies addictions lightly due to whatever it is they may be hooked on.. i often say 'everything is/can be a 'drug' except water and air'. Food, yes.. tv, other people.. anything, really, that induces that compulsive behavior u described, that we cant stop even tho we see its affecting(effecting?lol..always get those confused) us negatively. I think thats th real epidemic in this country..not th pills and th dope, but that we teach and learn that its ok, even desired, to 'indulge' ourselves..
Might be getting off topic, but thats ok, im not even sure what exactly my topic was to begin with, other than th 'battle'..

 

[Jabberwocky]

That's the nature of addiction, we try to trick ourselves into believing that it's fine to use drugs and that there's no point in quitting, or other ways to rationalize use.

A lot of people find Suboxone or even methadone to be a good stepping stone to actual sobriety where they quit all drugs and not only the ones they have an addiction to. Some people find NA meetings or even non-12 step sobriety groups to be helpful as well. Stay safe.

You can be sober and take Suboxone or methadone you know. . . they aren't mutually exclusive things at all, it's all in how they're used

And I'd say that craving is the nature of life in a materialistic society geared towards consumption, not just addiction. The desire for something more is a very human tendency. There isn't anything inherently wrong with it either, one must just learn to distinguish between the desire for more in a qualitative sense (related to the consumption of skills and knowledge) versus a quantitative sense (related to the consumption of material and things).

Learning how to be with what is take a lot of practice, it doesn't happen over night. Anyone can do it, but considering our (western/"developed") culture it requires a lot of support. Living a happy life requires the bliss of blamelessness - or to live an ethical life.

 

[treekllr]

But more back to th point, and what u said regarding it, for me that desire to fill that mysterious hole, to try to gain contentment in my life, is more than a desire for 'more', be it quantative or qualative..rather, i feel that i should be content with what i have, because circumstances in my life arent really to be complained about, and those things that are are of my own doing.. Now, i do enjoy th pursuit of 'more', in both senses u mentioned. But i still find even in th attainment of 'more' im still left feeling like somethings missing. I feel like i dont quite get why these are the things i should need or want to attain. I think many people feel that too, and come up with just as many ways to try to cope with that(from th classics like heroin or cake, to th..lets say 'inventive' or 'extreme' like jenkum or necrophilia)..
Id like to ask u what u meant by th bliss of blamelessness? Personally, i accept whatever blame should fairly be laid on my shoulders. I know ive made many mistakes and subsequently have hurt many people.. but that doesnt bow my head in shame. I consider myself to be ethically 'good' in my core heart and mind, and i dont shy away from my fair share of th fault, and i try to make amends if and when i can.. But th 'bliss of blamelessness' seems much too 'innocent' to be attainable by me, especially, and most others, typically. That bliss belongs to children, mostly, and many of th mentally handicapped(that retain the mentality of a child), and four legged and winged, finned and furred, th creatures of land and sea..

 

[treekllr]

I had made a post previous to my last one on th topic of methadone and suboxone, but somehow its disappeared.. but th gist of it was that u could say th same about heroin..if used properly it could be a boon rather than a beast. Th poisons in th dose, yeah? But all opiate/oids progress th same in regards to tolerance, just that box or methadone are on much, much longer timelines..

 

[herbavore]

Have you ever read Gabor Mate's book The Hungry Ghost? He talks about the nature of that hole (the unquenchable wanting more, always more).

I was raised with a vague sort of religion that I didn't so much reject as ignored and then my whole family just dropped it as well long before I was even 10. There was a lot of talk about morality in my family--about honesty, compassion, teamwork, integrity but no talk of spirituality. I've come around to a sense of spirituality on my own. I don't talk about it much because it is unarticulated in me and very personal. I do derive solace from it. It could probably best be summed up by believing in the unseen without any understanding. That sense of living as a tiny particle in something much bigger, along with practicing mindfulness has helped me more than anything with the old emptiness I was prone to feeling when I was young.