Mental Health [yes, I'm aware how dangerous and dumb this is, this is hypothetical right now] - Insulin Therapy

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

[background: I had very severe acute pancreatitis 10 years ago in which something like 95% of my pancreas was destroyed....5 years later I was diagnosed as an insulin-dependant diabetic (your pancreas produces insulin)...howeverrrrrr, I was also on 800mg/day Quetiapine. After 3 months I just stopped taking both the Quetiapine and the insulin and shortly after my blood sugar became normal has been for the last 5 years...then 10 days ago I had a blood test and my blood sugar was 9 times the normal level, so I've been given insulin again]


In the olden times, they used insulin like a shock therapy for mental illness...I've been getting really down again recently. If I were to deliberately take an overdose of insulin (nothing fatal or that would be seriously harmful and I'd keep glucose tablets/candy at hand)....could that help? Or has the whole concept been debunked as just not working?

I'm also considering asking my doctor about ECT.

 

[Electrum1]

In the olden times, they used insulin like a shock therapy for mental illness...I've been getting really down again recently. If I were to deliberately take an overdose of insulin (nothing fatal or that would be seriously harmful and I'd keep glucose tablets/candy at hand)....could that help? Or has the whole concept been debunked as just not working?

I'm also considering asking my doctor about ECT.

Looks like when they used to do that, it resulted in patients being put into a hypoglycemic coma. Sounds too risky to me in case you accidentally push it too far. Hope things get better for you. I would see what your doctor has to offer.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Looks like when they used to do that, it resulted in patients being put into a hypoglycemic coma. Sounds too risky to me in case you accidentally push it too far. Hope things get better for you. I would see what your doctor has to offer.

For Schizophrenia, yeah, they'd basically put them into a coma for an hour (before bringing them out via IV glucose) 6 days a week for months on end. Which TBH sounds like hell. Although they used much lower doses (still a LOT, but sub-coma doses) for non-psychotic mental illness.

Definitely gonna speak with my doctor first, I think.

 

[negrogesic]

Do not try this.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

[background: I had very severe acute pancreatitis 10 years ago in which something like 95% of my pancreas was destroyed....5 years later I was diagnosed as an insulin-dependant diabetic (your pancreas produces insulin)...howeverrrrrr, I was also on 800mg/day Quetiapine. After 3 months I just stopped taking both the Quetiapine and the insulin and shortly after my blood sugar became normal has been for the last 5 years...then 10 days ago I had a blood test and my blood sugar was 9 times the normal level, so I've been given insulin again]


In the olden times, they used insulin like a shock therapy for mental illness...I've been getting really down again recently. If I were to deliberately take an overdose of insulin (nothing fatal or that would be seriously harmful and I'd keep glucose tablets/candy at hand)....could that help? Or has the whole concept been debunked as just not working?

I'm also considering asking my doctor about ECT.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your mental health diagnosis? With 800mg of Seroquel, it seems like you may have bipolar disorder or psychosis or schizophrenia.

Are you familiar with how ECT originated? AFAIK, it was first used to render cattle more docile right before they were slaughtered. Then some doctor thought it would be a good idea to try it on mentally ill humans. Kinda like the frontal lobotomy, it has long been thought to be a barbaric and outdated treatment. I once thought ECT had been outlawed in the US but one of my friends told me he has received it recently.

I'm not a doctor and cannot make a therapeutic decision for you, I just wanted to make sure you heard a differing perspective from what the mental health system may be trying to feed you.

Normally procedures like ECT are suggested after all the medications have been tried and proven not to work. Have you exhausted all your medication options at this point?

 

[polarthedog]

Have you ever tried ketamine therapy? I think that might be good for you,but I wouldn't do the insulin thing

 

[deficiT]

Like others have said, sounds kinda like playing with fire, even hypothetically.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

If you don't mind me asking, what is your mental health diagnosis? With 800mg of Seroquel, it seems like you may have bipolar disorder or psychosis or schizophrenia.

Are you familiar with how ECT originated? AFAIK, it was first used to render cattle more docile right before they were slaughtered. Then some doctor thought it would be a good idea to try it on mentally ill humans. Kinda like the frontal lobotomy, it has long been thought to be a barbaric and outdated treatment. I once thought ECT had been outlawed in the US but one of my friends told me he has received it recently.

I'm not a doctor and cannot make a therapeutic decision for you, I just wanted to make sure you heard a differing perspective from what the mental health system may be trying to feed you.

Normally procedures like ECT are suggested after all the medications have been tried and proven not to work. Have you exhausted all your medication options at this point?

My diagnoses are legion, for they are many

Seriously, though:
Borderline Personality Disorder
Major Depressive Disorder (severe, w/ psychosis)
Anxiety Disorder (social, generalised)

Also various addictions, history of anorexia and bulimia, Avoidant PD, Dependant PD

(I'm not in the US, btw) ETC is very, very different now. There's drugs involved that stop the actual muscle seizures and it doesn't hurt etc.

 

[Phobos]

(I'm not in the US, btw) ETC is very, very different now. There's drugs involved that stop the actual muscle seizures and it doesn't hurt etc.

Whether ECT causes pain or not doesn't make a difference for you as you will have zero memory from a couple of minutes before the shock to when you wake up.
Do you know what drugs are used to stop the muscle spasms? I would want to know before considering ECT.

Anyway, ECT was used to make patients more docile and compliant in times when that was considered a success, not sure if it feels similar to a grand mal seizure or not but if it does there's worse things that you can experience but I recommend you stay away from it.

In regards to using Insulin to drive your blood sugar down into dangerous territory, you need a sitter if you don't want it to be a suicide attempt.
And by that I mean that yes you would risk death every single time, but also that if you do it alone and then call an ambulance on yourself, good luck convincing the doctors that you don't need to be locked up in suicide watch with your diagnoses.

There are less extreme things that you can try before you go and OD on Insulin or get ECT, like, I don't know, getting on TRT.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Whether ECT causes pain or not doesn't make a difference for you as you will have zero memory from a couple of minutes before the shock to when you wake up.
Do you know what drugs are used to stop the muscle spasms? I would want to know before considering ECT.

Anyway, ECT was used to make patients more docile and compliant in times when that was considered a success, not sure if it feels similar to a grand mal seizure or not but if it does there's worse things that you can experience but I recommend you stay away from it.

In regards to using Insulin to drive your blood sugar down into dangerous territory, you need a sitter if you don't want it to be a suicide attempt.
And by that I mean that yes you would risk death every single time, but also that if you do it alone and then call an ambulance on yourself, good luck convincing the doctors that you don't need to be locked up in suicide watch with your diagnoses.

There are less extreme things that you can try before you go and OD on Insulin or get ECT, like, I don't know, getting on TRT.

What is TRT?

Edit: I live in the UK and mental health care is SHOCKING here. They won't even keep you in hospital after a confirmed suicide attempt (even if you beg them or inform them you're gonna try again)

 

[Phobos]

What is TRT?

Edit: I live in the UK and mental health care is SHOCKING here. They won't even keep you in hospital after a confirmed suicide attempt (even if you beg them or inform them you're gonna try again)

Testosterone Replacement Therapy, basically you take an amount of it that gets you to a stable high-normal level, as opposed to bodybuilding dosages that get you anywhere from 4 to 20 times above the maximum natural production.
As you're in the UK you are extremely unlikely to get it even if you absolutely needed it.
But at the same time ordering and having personal quantities of Testosterone is not illegal in here so you don't really need a script.
It's relatively easy to get pharmaceutical brand Testosterone too.

I've had immense mental health benefits from it, and have not been using or wanting to use any drugs since I started, exception made from a trip every one or 2 months.

Obviously this is just my experience (although I have read many many similar reports online) and I have no clue if it will do anything for you, but I would encourage you to do some research of your own, maybe open up a thread to ask for personal experiences in the SIE subforum.
I haven't heard of any adverse mental side effect from TRT dosages, but if you are significantly overweight it might be a problem.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Testosterone Replacement Therapy, basically you take an amount of it that gets you to a stable high-normal level, as opposed to bodybuilding dosages that get you anywhere from 4 to 20 times above the maximum natural production.
As you're in the UK you are extremely unlikely to get it even if you absolutely needed it.
But at the same time ordering and having personal quantities of Testosterone is not illegal in here so you don't really need a script.
It's relatively easy to get pharmaceutical brand Testosterone too.

I've had immense mental health benefits from it, and have not been using or wanting to use any drugs since I started, exception made from a trip every one or 2 months.

Obviously this is just my experience (although I have read many many similar reports online) and I have no clue if it will do anything for you, but I would encourage you to do some research of your own, maybe open up a thread to ask for personal experiences in the SIE subforum.
I haven't heard of any adverse mental side effect from TRT dosages, but if you are significantly overweight it might be a problem.

Why would I want to take Testosterone for depression, though? Also, I definitely don't want to be hairier or heavier etc

 

[polarthedog]

Why would I want to take Testosterone for depression, though? Also, I definitely don't want to be hairier or heavier etc

Testosterone apparently has anti depressant effects, ANd I don’t think you’ll get hairier or heavier unless your overdoing it. I’m not an expert on the subject though

 

[Phobos]

Why would I want to take Testosterone for depression, though? Also, I definitely don't want to be hairier or heavier etc

Because more Testosterone and Estrogen (you body converts some of your test to Estrogen) influences levels of neurotransmitters.

You can find lot of stories about TRT drastically improving depression in men, you can also find people that have used several antidepressants before hopping on TRT say that it was the most effective drug they used by far.

TRT won't make you significantly more muscular, there might be a slight increase in muscle mass in the first 2-6 months but it will be in the order of like 4-8lbs.
You won't turn into a freakish bodybuilder using TRT dosages, you need very high dosages, more powerful steroids and a lot of food and training for years on end for that to happen.

You might get a few more hairs on your arms and it might accelerate hair loss but only if you are already predisposed to it, meaning if it happens it was gonna happen anyway later on.
You will definitely need to trim your beard more often.
Obviously I don't know what's more important for you but if you are willing to consider taking insulin or ECT, I think a bit of hair on your body should not be a deal breaker.

 

[n3ophy7e]

@ChemicallyEnhanced please do not purposefully overdose your insulin. It will be extremely unpleasant and there is a VERY real risk of death. Insulin shock therapy has been pretty much abandoned from psychiatric practice since the 1960s.

Is there a reason you're wanting to avoid psych meds for your depression? e.g. previous treatment-resistent depression
Definitely ask your doc about ECT, if for nothing else than to allay your curiosity. ECT has been significantly refined in recent decades and is no longer the barbaric practice it sounds like. It's still offered as a last resort for severe and treatment-resistent depression here in Australia. When I was in a psych ward 6 years ago there was a lady who was there for another round of ECT for her depression. Prior to the treatment she was very coherent, after the therapy she was a bit cognitively-distant, but not disturbingly so. It was more like she was really tired.

Anyway, NO to insulin overdose, please just don't even entertain it as an option. Be safe

 

[CFC]

I live in the UK and mental health care is SHOCKING here. They won't even keep you in hospital after a confirmed suicide attempt (even if you beg them or inform them you're gonna try again)

Dude I'm really sorry to read you're struggling. Mental health care is pretty shocking everywhere but they certainly will hospitalize you here in the UK if you appear to be determined to kill yourself or a risk to others. Don't OD on insulin though, you're likely to end up permanently damaged and neither dead nor cured. Give Samaritans a call on 116 123. It's free, they're available 24/7, and they're pretty knowledgeable and helpful.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Thanks for all the nice replies, guys

I'm not gonna try the insulin thing, I think I was just desperate, but after reading up some more about it, it's definitely a bad idea.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Because more Testosterone and Estrogen (you body converts some of your test to Estrogen) influences levels of neurotransmitters.

You can find lot of stories about TRT drastically improving depression in men, you can also find people that have used several antidepressants before hopping on TRT say that it was the most effective drug they used by far.

TRT won't make you significantly more muscular, there might be a slight increase in muscle mass in the first 2-6 months but it will be in the order of like 4-8lbs.
You won't turn into a freakish bodybuilder using TRT dosages, you need very high dosages, more powerful steroids and a lot of food and training for years on end for that to happen.

You might get a few more hairs on your arms and it might accelerate hair loss but only if you are already predisposed to it, meaning if it happens it was gonna happen anyway later on.
You will definitely need to trim your beard more often.
Obviously I don't know what's more important for you but if you are willing to consider taking insulin or ECT, I think a bit of hair on your body should not be a deal breaker.

I appreciate the advice, but testosterone is a definite no for me. I've never really said it before, but I'd probably class myself more non-binary than male. I also naturally have very, very little body hair and have always been VERY pleased with that. My dad is 61 and has all his hair as did my grandad when he died at 83 and I take after them, so probably won't lose my hair. Plus, I have really long, thick hair, so the risk of that is a deal-breaker, too.
Plus, if I started taking T, my body would adjust to it and then I'd end up with an imbalance if I were to stop taking it.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Thanks for all the nice replies, guys

I'm not gonna try the insulin thing, I think I was just desperate, but after reading up some more about it, it's definitely a bad idea.

This is really good to hear man. I know those desperate feels when it comes to our mental health.
I'm going to close this thread for further discussion, just to prevent anyone else getting the idea. Inbox me if you have any questions.