Heroin Y do we have to come clean? is it because thats wat is "normal"?

[chase_in_56ace]

There are many factors that can lead a drug user to put down their drug of choice for good. Most commonly is the presence of overwhelming consequences that continue to cause chaos in spite of tweaking the way one gets high. Many people try and taper down and use less, use socially, or perhaps move back to pills from heroin or vice-a-versa. It is most common for an addict to reach that pivotal moment encroaching actual change when he is completely spent by the chaos in his life.

I'm going to use myself as an example. I was an oxycontin user for years. I smoked and IVd countless pills. Until my health issues destroyed whatever semblance of life I was clinging on to, I didn't even consider quitting. I then tried to quit but failed. The chaos caused by legal ramifications of my drug use then basically forced my to be clean and I remain clean today for completely different reasons.

I want to be a productive member of society. Despite a disastrous history of IV opiate abuse and seizures undoubtedly lowering my IQ a few points, I consider myself intelligent enough to be successful in chasing my dreams and accomplishing my goals. I no longer play the victim and surround myself with highly successful, motivated people. I've changed my ways of thinking and living enough to make positive impressions on those I've wronged in the past. I've rebuilt many bridges with close friends and am earning the trust back of people I really love, however never dreamed to reacquaint with due to the damage done.

I've reprogrammed my psyche.

I understand that I have a slight degree of mental illness, which carries symptoms that can be exacerbated through extreme bouts of drug use. I crave stability within myself in order to maintain a high-paced business-oriented lifestyle (despite legal issues, I now own my own company and am back in college) and live a life I can fully TOUCH and FEEL. It is amazing what gratitude and a little understanding will do once you stop lying to yourself and actually work to attain real moral fiber.

It is through this understanding that I find my desire to stay clean. To prove to myself and the immediate people I love, most of whom I've wronged, that I'm capable of change, as well as accepting that the person I was once can be no longer. I long to make an impact on society and leave my mark upon this Earth before I leave. I strive for greatness and push myself further than I think I can go, as I've already gone further than I ever thought was possible

So to answer your question, I believe most addicts get clean when their struggle and consequences lead them to understand life. I believe that life is entirely about relationships with others as well as yourself. Both types are impeded by compulsive drug use.

 

[Treefa]

Intravenous Drug users don't really live beyond the moment, they certainly can't live any kind of "normal" life what with the preoccupation with drugs, and the like.

You can't use again, not even once, without experiencing withdrawal again.

You must choose; Live a clean "normal" life, OR keep sticking needles in your arm for 'fleeting' satisfaction, and end up dying on the streets from endocarditis.

Heroin may not kill, but needles sure as shit do! If you junkies could understand that you might be able to maintain your habit and function!

Life ain't always easy, and at the end of the day you ARE the choices you make. If you CHOOSE to be a junkie, then you'll be a disgusting junkie your whole life. If you choose to be something else, you'll be something else.

Good luck, Think positive, it's especially hard for you women, I mean Christ women are the *most* negative creatures ever conceived, but you, again, can CHOOSE to be positive instead!
Just takes some effort...

 

[subotai]

I worked in a liquor store for 2 1/2 years and thought about this every single day.

still don't really have an answer, but the stigma behind heroin is so negative that there are very few people who would be ok with even being indifferent to it.

If you even try to argue for reasons why people use heroin, you set yourself up to be looked at differently by people you know

so the general consensus is that heroin is the worst drug in existence to society, and I dont see that changing so long as people continue to live like trashy junkies. notice I said "trashy" junkie. There's a lot of junkies, but it's the trashy ones that give us all a bad rep

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Yeah a heroin habit, even a casual one is something you want to keep to yourself if possible. The BEST response I could expect to get from telling someone about my minor usage in the past would be looks of great concern and somber warnings.

The only people I would feel comfortable sharing that info with in real life are current or former heroin (ab)users, who tend to be pretty non-judgmental.

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

I disagree with all the negative comments here. The main reason heroin is bad is because of the stigma against it and the illegality of it. If it were legal, it would be as cheap as cigarettes. If people could go to a convenience store to get heroin, that would eliminate most problems surrounding it, namely the financial problem. Heroin should be dirt cheap, all it is is a plant not unlike tobacco or cannabis. But because it grows in a faraway land and has a bad reputation, it is so expensive to get, and most the time, cut quite a bit.

If there were no stigma, people wouldn't conform to the "junky" stereotype. Believe it or not, the drug doesn't make people this way, the stigma against them makes them this way. Sort of like how many young Black youth emulate "gangsta" culture (sure other races do it too), not because they are Black, but because that is what society portrays and reinforces them to be, so they become it. Funny how all the anti-heroin hysteria only started because of a few unscrupulous types blaming all of society's problems on it back in old Great Britain.

Like tobacco, it used to be quite acceptable and didn't cause the problems it had. Just like they used cannabis to get rid of undesired Black people, I'm sure heroin also had Middle Eastern connotations, at the very least, it was but a scapegoat.

The withdrawals? Again, if heroin were legal and affordable, people could afford a heroin addiction like smokers can afford a cigarette addiction.

 

[cj]

I disagree with all the negative comments here. The main reason heroin is bad is because of the stigma against it and the illegality of it. If it were legal, it would be as cheap as cigarettes. If people could go to a convenience store to get heroin, that would eliminate most problems surrounding it, namely the financial problem. Heroin should be dirt cheap, all it is is a plant not unlike tobacco or cannabis. But because it grows in a faraway land and has a bad reputation, it is so expensive to get, and most the time, cut quite a bit.

If there were no stigma, people wouldn't conform to the "junky" stereotype. Believe it or not, the drug doesn't make people this way, the stigma against them makes them this way. Sort of like how many young Black youth emulate "gangsta" culture (sure other races do it too), not because they are Black, but because that is what society portrays and reinforces them to be, so they become it. Funny how all the anti-heroin hysteria only started because of a few unscrupulous types blaming all of society's problems on it back in old Great Britain.

Like tobacco, it used to be quite acceptable and didn't cause the problems it had. Just like they used cannabis to get rid of undesired Black people, I'm sure heroin also had Middle Eastern connotations, at the very least, it was but a scapegoat.

The withdrawals? Again, if heroin were legal and affordable, people could afford a heroin addiction like smokers can afford a cigarette addiction.

I think your right about the stigma sourounding heroin causing some of the anti social behaviors we pick up as users. The lying and extreme secretiveness being the easiest one to point to. There is actually a sociological term called "Role Theory" that explains this phenomenon pretty well. I suggest anyone who is interested to look it up and draw there own conclusions. I will say that people like Treefa really piss me off with that dirty junky bullshit. I can only speak for myself but I use because the environment inside my head is hell. It literally feels as if my head will explode in flames sometimes. Drugs especially heroin and other opiates cool the fire down. Is it a temporary solution? Yes. Does it make things worse for tommorow? Almost certainly. Does that matter to me today? Not a bit.

Painting us with the brush of choice is disingenuous at best. Opiate addiction causes structural changes in the brain that scientists are only beginning to study. IMO that is why traditional 12 step programs and rehabs set up for other drugs have such abysmal success rates for opiate addicts. I am a big proponent of maintenance programs for heroin addiction just because they have kept me alive and out of prison for the last 6 years.

 

[pbuilder]

In the end you'll find heroin is the cause of basically all your problems in active addiction. You can't get clean for anyone else, you gotta get clean for you. Let's not pretend being a junky isn't our own private little sick twisted hell on earth that turns us into a shitty shell of the people we once were.

 

[Nom de Plume]

Opiate addicts benefit capitalism far more than hurt it. I'm leaving many aspects out, but, supplying the opiates, employing the doctors who write scripts(main source of addiction in the US), rehabilitating those who have had enough, and maintaining others through Suboxone or Methadone; it's a multi-billion dollar industry that even affects people far outside of the United States. The only thing those who organize and keep (re)organizing the society care about is that which allows them to keep writing history; money. As longs as there is demand for opiates, legally or illegally, there will be a supply of it.

Burnt Offerings:

The illegal drug trade is a very profitable piece of the capitalist system, I think. I mean the dynamics of capitalism are present everywhere in it, really.

Do drugs also impair certain parts of capitalism in some ways? Yeah, I'd say so. I also think that the a big part of the reason cannabis has been illegal for so long, and authorities in the USA have made such a big deal about going after it for decades, is that it promotes thinking that some people don't like. That's really the only reason I can see for the prohibition in the specific case of cannabis just because the high from smoking cannabis usually isn't intense or debilitating (compared to some other things, anyway) and it doesn't do huge damage to the user's health.

You also have the prohibition of drugs made illegal at later dates like LSD, MDMA or GHB, but I think those are more due to high profile media coverage/scaremongering combined with the general political culture surrounding drugs that "the classics" (ie marijuana, cocaine, heroin etc) helped create. To help understand a lot about drugs today it's useful to go back to the reasons why drug prohibition originally began, and that's a very interesting story. The USA in particular is one nation in particular that played a big role in that internationally.

This argument is either an ignoratio elenchi (arising out of a fundamental misapprehension with what I had written) or is pertinent but simply erroneous (arising out of a misapprehension with how I wrote what was written). Nonetheless, they are kind of difficult to address in any laconic and uncomplicated way. But I'll begin thus:

Heroin is a drug; it's a noun. A drug by itself cannot benefit or hinder the progress of an economic system. That is to say, nouns cannot do, rather they just are. The doing part comes from verbs—for example to use or to sell, activities which affect the economy to some measurable degree.
It isn't the drug that has a negative impact on the productivity of the workforce and general population; rather, it's the dependence on or addiction to the drug that diminishes productivity.

Of course, capitalism is such that the buying and selling of any commodity—and everything is a commodity, including heroin—will improve the condition of the economy. And so the heroin trade is productive.

However, it seems clear that heroin addicts, as a whole and taken as an average, do less to stimulate the economy per annum than do non-drug addicts.

For example,

1.) The addict almost only ever spends money to satisfy their addiction, and hence achieves significantly less stimulation of the economy than the average consumer that has diversified spending over a wide range of locations.

2.) Moreover, the addict spends less overall per annum than average, compounding the first issue.

3.) Average consumers typically are in the workforce—and thus provide labour which adds to the overall production of goods and services, allowing more reasons to spend money to a greater number of consumers (each of whom also earns their disposable income by producing goods and services for yet more consumers to expend their labour-earned income on, ad nauseum et ad infinitum)—in exchange for disposable income. Thus, average consumers generate exponentially greater income than they earn and spend in the marketplace.

4.) In contrast, the stereotypical heroin addict earns his disposable income not by providing labour—thus generating no goods nor services—but he also a.) consumes goods and services, and b.) obtains spending money through ways that either diminish productivity (e.g., theft, burglary, shoplifting) or at least provides little to no benefit (e.g., plastics and metals recycling; short-term and low-skill wage labour and temp work; cadging, scrounging, freeloading, or asking for alms).

Taken together the product of these four (of many more hitherto unmentioned) factors makes for an utterly execrable negative individual economic output and productivity. If given a sufficiently populous demographic, the combined effect is invariably a plenary devastation to any capitalistic system and its connate society

 

[2sik2function]

How can I seek a person whose in a specific area? I just moved to Colorado springs and could use some new "friends"

 

[Burnt Offerings]

words

*shrug* All I was really saying is that the illegal drug trade is a capitalistic enterprise. It follows the same basic M->C->M mode of production inherent in just about everything, in which capital is invested into commodity production which then yields more capital. So while it does harm productivity in the "legitimate economy", in the final analysis it's just another segment of the economic order.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I disagree with all the negative comments here. The main reason heroin is bad is because of the stigma against it and the illegality of it. If it were legal, it would be as cheap as cigarettes. If people could go to a convenience store to get heroin, that would eliminate most problems surrounding it, namely the financial problem. Heroin should be dirt cheap, all it is is a plant not unlike tobacco or cannabis. But because it grows in a faraway land and has a bad reputation, it is so expensive to get, and most the time, cut quite a bit.

If there were no stigma, people wouldn't conform to the "junky" stereotype. Believe it or not, the drug doesn't make people this way, the stigma against them makes them this way. Sort of like how many young Black youth emulate "gangsta" culture (sure other races do it too), not because they are Black, but because that is what society portrays and reinforces them to be, so they become it. Funny how all the anti-heroin hysteria only started because of a few unscrupulous types blaming all of society's problems on it back in old Great Britain.

Like tobacco, it used to be quite acceptable and didn't cause the problems it had. Just like they used cannabis to get rid of undesired Black people, I'm sure heroin also had Middle Eastern connotations, at the very least, it was but a scapegoat.

The withdrawals? Again, if heroin were legal and affordable, people could afford a heroin addiction like smokers can afford a cigarette addiction.

If you want to argue for a substance being mostly benign and the addiction to it being not that bad (if it were legal), it might not be a good idea to compare it to a cigarette addiction.

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

If you want to argue for a substance being mostly benign and the addiction to it being not that bad (if it were legal), it might not be a good idea to compare it to a cigarette addiction.

Why is that? Nicotine is more addictive than opiates in my experience.

 

[Treefa]

I disagree with all the negative comments here. The main reason heroin is bad is because of the stigma against it and the illegality of it. If it were legal, it would be as cheap as cigarettes. If people could go to a convenience store to get heroin, that would eliminate most problems surrounding it, namely the financial problem. Heroin should be dirt cheap, all it is is a plant not unlike tobacco or cannabis. But because it grows in a faraway land and has a bad reputation, it is so expensive to get, and most the time, cut quite a bit.

If there were no stigma, people wouldn't conform to the "junky" stereotype. Believe it or not, the drug doesn't make people this way, the stigma against them makes them this way. Sort of like how many young Black youth emulate "gangsta" culture (sure other races do it too), not because they are Black, but because that is what society portrays and reinforces them to be, so they become it. Funny how all the anti-heroin hysteria only started because of a few unscrupulous types blaming all of society's problems on it back in old Great Britain.

Like tobacco, it used to be quite acceptable and didn't cause the problems it had. Just like they used cannabis to get rid of undesired Black people, I'm sure heroin also had Middle Eastern connotations, at the very least, it was but a scapegoat.

The withdrawals? Again, if heroin were legal and affordable, people could afford a heroin addiction like smokers can afford a cigarette addiction.

Well that's just genius, I feel the same way bro, but guess what, your living in fantasy lala land, bro!

HEROIN IS NOT NOW, NOR WILL IT EVER BE LEGAL.
Even if it were SUPPLY/DEMAND would be a HUGE problem, because it would outsell IPHONEs and COCA-COLA for fucksake!!

You should also know Convenient Store Robberies would fucking skyrocket, we're talking 1,000% +!!

Believe it or not, Heroin is ILLEGAL for all of our own good, even if the strictness of the laws seem quite oppressive, you MUST KNOW that at least 50% of all TRUE JUNKIES, CANNOT use heroin in any kind of responsible manner.....
I would expect to see HIV infections, accidental OD's, CRIME IN GENERAL skyrocket so that the junkies who weren't productive and working could feed their habits...


PRESCRIPTION HEROIN, on the other hand, is a novel idea, and I really think we should look into that, or at least we should currently do something about the widespread MISTREATMENT & UNDERTREATMENT OF PAIN PTS who actually need opiates, and simultaneously enact measures (safes, etc) to keep opiates out of the hands of RECREATIONAL users, I.E junkies.


Let's face it, if your STILL using Heroin for Fun, i.e. to get "high" like a dumbass 15 year old, you SHOULD be DENIED opiates until you learn to use them in a responsible manner, like an adult with a brain, and not some self-pittied, depressive adolescent with a death-wish whose scared to face their emotional problems, or the hard facts of the world.

Only then, when you know how difficult life is, and still what YOUR MISSION in life is, what you are going to do to FULFILL YOUR LIFE'S MISSION, thus making earth a better place for others and/or yourself, ONLY THEN should people be allowed to use heroin....


You give heroin to half the dumb fucks in the world and they won't do shit, but sit around talking about dope, wondering how they can get some money because they are too "high" and generally lazy/indifferent to work.

In a perfect world, Legal Heroin is a good idea, in the real world it would surely fuck shit up big-time, lol.

 

[Nom de Plume]

*shrug* All I was really saying is that the illegal drug trade is a capitalistic enterprise. It follows the same basic M->C->M mode of production inherent in just about everything, in which capital is invested into commodity production which then yields more capital. So while it does harm productivity in the "legitimate economy", in the final analysis it's just another segment of the economic order.

But this is an arrant non sequitur. It cannot logically be used to impugn or gainsay anything I've contended. Therefore, the truth-value of the counterclaim is irrelevant since it's in fact not counter to any of my claims. Rather, instead of it being opposite my claims, it is beside them.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Who's to say that I was even making a counter to your claims? I could have just been making a general comment that was related but not necessarily opposed to what you were saying.

Why is that? Nicotine is more addictive than opiates in my experience.

Exactly, cigarettes are very addictive and destructive to the user's health. So when you say "if it were legal it would be just like this very-addictive-and-destructive-thing, so what's the big deal?", that seems like a reason for it not to be legal. Not a very good reason IMO but you get the idea.

 

[Nom de Plume]

Who's to say that I was even making a counter to your claims?

Well, was it a counterclaim or am supposed to speculate?

I could have just been making a general comment that was related but not necessarily opposed to what you were saying.

For many reasons (which I shan't mention, for fear that doing so will have my post scoffed at and degraded as just "words"), you didn't convince me of this alternative.

 

[belfort]

even if heroin was legal, you would still be a slave to it..you would have to get your fix every 3 hours whether through a pharmacy or clinic..is that any sort of life?i have to wonder how functional a heroin addict would be down the road even if he had his heroin..i know during the end of my heroin addiction, i would shoot up, feel high for a few minutes and then nod out and sleep...that was it, that was my and many others life..i didnt see too many career focused heroin addicts..

the way it stands now, you wont see too many heroin chippers that have been around it for longer than a year or so..all the chippers become addicts eventually and then you run out of money..you quickly get a $200/day habit and good luck supporting that and getting to work every day and doing your job..the idea scenario would be to use heroin every once in awhile but no one can do that..everyone starts out thinking they can but they cant..

 

[speedballs_over]

Back to the OP, if you're an American, male or female get Medicaid, get on methadone. Saved my life. Yes it's a hassle, but think about the hassles you'll put up with to stay on opioids vs. your recent life where you moving forward. Bupe is an option, but with your strong desire to get off dope, methadone will treat you best, ime/imo, just steer clear of the xanny dealers that prey upon 'done patients.

Best.

 

[speedballs_over]

I know a couple that chipped for seven years. Never a habit. Always a week b/w, meanwhile I went to everyday almost immediacy.

No idea how they did it, but they didn't have much money, maybe that was it, and they'd never do anything illegal except score with earned money. It's possible, but that's two of the dozens I've known. They're nearly a decade from using it....

 

[Burnt Offerings]

The idea that every heroin chipper eventually becomes an addict is simply incorrect.