xanax temazepam and alcohol

[SPC123]

It's probably because temazepam is the most toxic benzodiazepine, and that is according to several independent studies. Alprazolam is 40x more potent than temazepam by weight (0.5 mg alprazolam = 20 mg temazepam), yet the LD50 for temazepam is 833 mg/kg and compare that to alprazolam's LD50 is 2171 mg/kg, triazolam's LD50 is 1625 mg/kg (triazolam is even more potent than alprazolam), and flunitrazepam's LD50 is 1200 mg/kg. Temazepam is TOXIC as shit!

I haven't done the research on it, but are you sure this is a valid line of reasoning? Everything has an LD50, some things higher, some lower, however just because one substance has a lower LD50 than another doesn't indicate increased negative reaction at sub-lethal doses. For example the LD50 of fentanyl is very low, however that doesn't make fentanyl in anyway more "dirty" than heroin... Take alcohol: You will end up sick and hung over after far less than the LD50. Point being, LD50 is not a good indicator of how "clean" or "dirty" a drug will be. It simply shows the relative toxicity of the drug, which could simply be due to stronger autonomic activity.

 

[kokaino]

I haven't done the research on it, but are you sure this is a valid line of reasoning? Everything has an LD50, some things higher, some lower, however just because one substance has a lower LD50 than another doesn't indicate increased negative reaction at sub-lethal doses. For example the LD50 of fentanyl is very low, however that doesn't make fentanyl in anyway more "dirty" than heroin... Take alcohol: You will end up sick and hung over after far less than the LD50. Point being, LD50 is not a good indicator of how "clean" or "dirty" a drug will be. It simply shows the relative toxicity of the drug, which could simply be due to stronger autonomic activity.

You're right, LD50 is not necessarily an indicator of how clean or dirty a drug may be, but generally speaking, the more toxic a drug is the "dirtier" it will be. But LD50 numbers aside, temazepam has been proven in several independent studies to be the most lethal drug in overdose and to be more sedative/hypnotic than most other benzos.

You can go here for two separate studies. The first one is an Australian study and the second one is a British study.

Here is the result of the Australian study:

Oxazepam produced less and temazepam more sedation than other benzodiazepines. Unadjusted odds ratios for coma with oxazepam and temazepam compared with other benzodiazepines were 0.0 (95% confidence interval 0.0 to 0.85) and 1.86 (0.68 to 4.77) respectively, x2=7.08, 2df, P=0.03. After adjustment for potentially confounding effects of age, dose ingested, and coingestion of alcohol, the odds ratios were 0.22 (0.0 to 1.43) for oxazepam and 1.94 (0.57 to 6.23) for temazepam. Similar results were obtained for other measures of sedation

The British study states this:

Benzodiazepines are generally thought to be safe in overdose. Death after admission is rare and due to respiratory depression with aspiration of gastric contents.2 Over 10 years in the United Kingdom, however, 1512 fatal poisonings have been attributed to benzodiazepines with or without alcohol. These were compared with prescription data to establish a fatal toxicity index (deaths per million prescriptions) for each benzodiazepine. Similar indices have been derived for antidepressants and barbiturates. There were clear differences between benzodiazepines. Of drugs frequently prescribed, temazepam had the highest number of deaths per million prescriptions at 11.9 (95% confidence interval 10.9 to 12.8 ); above that of some tricyclic antidepressants. In contrast, oxazepam had an index of 2.3 (1.2 to 3.4), and the index for all benzodiazepines combined was 5.7.

 

[SPC123]

I'd guess the increased LD50 with temazepam is due entirely to its increased sedation, and respiratory depression. The studies you linked seem to bear this out. However the subjective "dirtiness" of a drug isn't linked to LD50 in either study. Looking at http://www.cmaj.ca/content/181/12/891.full we can see well over double the incidence of death for all opiates compared with temazepam. Obviously you can't make a direct comparison between the two, however it would seem to invalidate the theory that increased LD50 results in an increase in perceived "dirtiness" or a drug. I will however concede that it is likely that within a category of drugs (benzodiazapines, opiates, amphetamines, etc) a lower LD50, and perhaps more to the point, a lower therapeutic index, will result in a larger incidence of side effects based on dose fluctuation. To wit, taking a larger dose of temazepam is likely to result in more side effects compared with other benzodiazapines. Still, this doesn't prove the drug is any more "dirty" than any other in its class at therapeutic doses.

Anecdotally, I have used temazepam in the past and noticed no dysphoric effects. It was certainly more sedating than diazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam or lorazepam, but that's the nature of the drug. Then again, others report nausea so there is certainly reason to suspect causality. It's just not proven. I would say as always, YMMV.

 

[kokaino]

I'd guess the increased LD50 with temazepam is due entirely to its increased sedation, and respiratory depression. The studies you linked seem to bear this out. However the subjective "dirtiness" of a drug isn't linked to LD50 in either study. Looking at http://www.cmaj.ca/content/181/12/891.full we can see well over double the incidence of death for all opiates compared with temazepam. Obviously you can't make a direct comparison between the two, however it would seem to invalidate the theory that increased LD50 results in an increase in perceived "dirtiness" or a drug. I will however concede that it is likely that within a category of drugs (benzodiazapines, opiates, amphetamines, etc) a lower LD50, and perhaps more to the point, a lower therapeutic index, will result in a larger incidence of side effects based on dose fluctuation. To wit, taking a larger dose of temazepam is likely to result in more side effects compared with other benzodiazapines. Still, this doesn't prove the drug is any more "dirty" than any other in its class at therapeutic doses.

Anecdotally, I have used temazepam in the past and noticed no dysphoric effects. It was certainly more sedating than diazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam or lorazepam, but that's the nature of the drug. Then again, others report nausea so there is certainly reason to suspect causality. It's just not proven. I would say as always, YMMV.

Now that you bring the opiate comparison, it brings it kind of home - you're right. LD50 rates or toxicity doesn't necessarily make a drug "dirtier". I have never gotten any dysphoric effects on temazepam either. I've actually gotten some very nice highs and "euphoric" effects from temazepam. It's one of the benzos you can rely on for a good time - its predictable, unlike some other benzos. But it does completely floor me and totally wreck me if I take too much though.

The following quote is from the "Benzodiazepine" article on Wikipedia:

Overall, anecdotal evidence suggests that temazepam may be the most psychologically habit-forming (addictive) benzodiazepine. Temazepam abuse reached epidemic proportions in some parts of the world, in particular, in Europe and Australia, and is a major drug of abuse in many Southeast Asian countries. This led authorities of various countries to place temazepam under a more restrictive legal status. Some countries banned the drug outright (i.e., Sweden).[141] Temazepam also has certain pharmacokinetic properties of absorption, distribution, elimination, and clearance that make it more apt to abuse compared to many other benzodiazepines.[142][143]

 

[tokenname]

I wonder what the LD50 of too much chemistry talk in a Basic Drug Discussion is...

FYI: This question is absolutely no indication of how "clean" or "dirty" I am.

token

 

[effie]

Hehe I'm more than happy for chemistry talk in here ADD is pretty.. advanced, haha, and Other Drugs tends to focus more on the practical side so it's all good! We don't usually have long discussion threads but I don't mind letting things run for a bit as it isn't getting repetitive or turning into a shouting match, and as long as the forum isn't too busy.

This seems like it has reached it's natural end now though so I am going to close it. I've enjoyed the discussion in here, thanks guys!

Closed, PM me with any queries.