• LAVA Moderator: Shinji Ikari

Writing your thesis

samb834

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
823
Location
Under the stairs licking your ankles
I have about 10 months left of my PhD and so need to start to think about beginning to write my thesis 8o.

I have my first year transfer report that is about 20,000 words and although its a bit rough around the edges, I can use that as a jumping off point and build around that.

At the moment this seems like such a daunting task so I was hoping to hear from any of you with any experiance of this and maybe get some helpful hints or tips on how to undertake such a mamoth task. Any golden pieces of advice on how to get it done while at the same time keeping my sanity?
 
Daunting indeed! I'm in a similar position to you. Have you been writing during the rest of your candidature aside from that report in your first year? I've been writing the whole time, although it's only recently that I've started writing anything very coherent (aside from journal articles). I'm at the beginning of what I hope to be my final year.

My approach has been to start writing texts, but without sitting down to "write the thesis." I am writing pieces which are usually a little smaller than an average chapter. As I write these, the thesis is starting to take shape inside my head. I'm not even sure if any of the text I already have will actually go into the thesis, but the writing process is crucial for developing my thinking to the point where I'll be writing stuff that is one day going to be in the thesis itself.

I'm not taking a linear approach, but rather writing pieces according to what is most pressing or foremost in my thinking at the time. Sometimes they're conceptual, other times they're empirical. I'm also preparing articles for publication which is a really useful process that forces you to get to the absolute core of your arguments, since articles have to be really tight, whereas in a thesis chapter you have a little more room to move. I would never sit down to write a thesis. But I'm sitting down to write arguments, and eventually I'll sit down to write chapters, and then one day I'll edit the chapters and link them together, and then I'll have a thesis.

My experience with older texts I've written (like, more than a few months ago) is that my thinking has usually moved on considerably by then. I'm not sure what a transfer report is, but at my uni you have to write a 10 000 word report at the end of your first year. At the time I thought that report was shit hot. Now I think it's rubbish and I doubt I'll use any of it. Going back over older writing is important but don't get stuck on old ideas. Be ready to trash anything if it's going to result in a better thesis in the end (of course that's with the proviso that you have a limited amount of time and you need to get it written).

Regarding sanity: I've always done my PhD as a 9-5, 5 days a week job. On the weekends I go out and have fun and whatever like I always have. As time goes on I think this will be less easy...I have a friend currently doing 70 or 80 hour weeks in order to get his thesis finished but I'd like to avoid that for as long as I can. I'm resigned to a period of total insanity, but I'd like to keep that away for as long as possible by working methodically now.
 
Work out your structure.

For me it was relatively easy to do that.

1. Intro
2. Lit review
3. 1st journal paper expanded
4. 2nd journal paper expanded
5. what was to become the 3rd journal paper expanded
6. Conclusions and recommendations

That is the broad outline obviously, but having a fairly set structure in mind will help a lot. You don't have to sit down and write your whole thesis at once, break it down into manageable chunks. Get some chapter outlines going, try writing a whole chapter. Other than that, talk to your supervisor!! Unless they are completely useless they should be able to assist you with this!

Good luck :)
 
Regarding sanity: I've always done my PhD as a 9-5, 5 days a week job. On the weekends I go out and have fun and whatever like I always have. As time goes on I think this will be less easy...I have a friend currently doing 70 or 80 hour weeks in order to get his thesis finished but I'd like to avoid that for as long as I can. I'm resigned to a period of total insanity, but I'd like to keep that away for as long as possible by working methodically now.

I cannot agree with this more. It's inevitable that you will have a "period of insanity" near the end, no matter how much effort you put into it leading up to that. Just accept it and try and pace yourself as is suggested above up and until 2 months prior-to submission or so. But as for now, pace yourself well and try and have some fun on your weekends.

For me, I often found it worked better giving myself Wednesday and Saturday off, instead of two days back-to-back (this was when writing my MSc thesis). But everyone's different in how they want to divide up their work and their leisure, so find a combination that works for you!

Just curious samb, what are you writing your thesis on? (as broad or specific as you're willing to say)
 
Thanks for the input guys... This was pretty much the way I was going to tackle it. I think if I went into it with the mindset “I'm going to start writing my thesis now” and start from the beginning, I think that mountain might seem to high to climb.

Splitting it down into relevant chapters turns it into manageable, bite sized chunks that I can edit and link together, thus producing the final result at the end of it, in theory anyways.

Unfortunately I had a few hiccups and failed experiments in the first two years so don't have any journal publications yet, however in the past couple of months this has done a complete 180 and now have a number of experiments under my belt that produced results that are publishable =D

So with that in mind, the plan of action is to write up the series of experiments I have recently completed and get them submitted to journals. Then I can use the publications as building blocks for the relevant chapters of the thesis and begin to construct the final product from there.

My experience with older texts I've written (like, more than a few months ago) is that my thinking has usually moved on considerably by then. I'm not sure what a transfer report is, but at my uni you have to write a 10 000 word report at the end of your first year.

My transfer report is simply my first year report, however I have the same problem regarding the fact that I wrote it almost two years ago and my writing style has changed and hopefully improved since then, along with the interpretation of what the results mean changing considerably. I will be using the data from my first year, however will heavily edit the text that I include in my final thesis.

Just curious samb, what are you writing your thesis on?

Its concerning cognitive impairments and schizophrenia. Specifically investigating the ability of PCP in inducing attentional impairments and increased impulsivity seen in the disorder. Once I've established reliable impairments in a model of schizophrenia, I can use neurotransmitter selective drugs, which may possibly ameliorate the PCP-induced impairments in performance, giving further insights into the biological mechanisms that might be involved in the disease...

Luckily I still have plenty of time until I have to submit the final draft, but I just want to get on top of it now by outlining the structure of the thesis and make a start on my publications. As mentioned, I think a period of insanity is inevitable, although I think some careful preparation I will hopefully minimise how long the insanity lasts for :D

Thanks again, will definitely take your advice on board and hopefully come out the other side relatively unscathed.
 
Last edited:
^^
I do some of my best thinking in the shower in the morning. It's where I plan what I'm going to do for the day. If I don't have any useful thoughts in the shower it doesn't bode well for a productive day.
Today I had no useful thoughts in the shower and now I've sat down and am posting on bluelight. Neither of these things bode well for a productive day.
 
10 months is plenty of time... i'm about there with ya too. its freaking scary, but you just gotta break it up into chapters and start tackling them one at a time... its going to take a while, but just plug away on it everyday a little.

Good luck and wish me luck too.

and no, you don't write your thesis in the shower or in bed, unless you have a waterproof laptop in the first case, and don't fall asleep when you lie down in the second.

Its serious business, and takes hours everyday.
 
Yeah, I'm with the 'act as if it's an ordinary job' mentality. Treat it as though you're working from 8-5. It's hard to start-up with this sort of mentality but it really makes a difference after you get use to it. Good luck. :)
 
I would have guessed it was all about finding the "big idea"...like, an "eureeka" moment or something.



And I would have further guessed that the actual "write up" was a fairly trivial part.
 
I would have guessed it was all about finding the "big idea"...like, an "eureeka" moment or something.



And I would have further guessed that the actual "write up" was a fairly trivial part.

This couldn't really be further from the truth. PhD's, and academic work generally, are about constant, careful plodding. It's about immersing yourself in concepts and data and writing all the time. It's about taking ages to make good conceptual links that others haven't seen. There are very few 'eureeka moments' and making those moments intelligible or interesting to other people is a skill in itself.

The process of writing is not about just writing down what you already think or know. It's a process of discovery in itself. It's when you assemble your thoughts into a coherent form, link concepts to other concepts, and really explore the intricacies and implications of your thinking. It's a process of experimentation, and the first draft is rarely anywhere close to the final product in terms of maturity, coherence or complexity. Whatever you might think at the beginning, you only have a rough idea of what the importance of your work is until you sit down and write about it.
 
^ exactly!

Even if you have the "eureka" moment, its still going to take several months to write it down into a chapter in your thesis, and into paper form, assuming you are going to publish it.

Writing also depends heavily on how your PhD boss works. Mine likes to see tons and tons of drafts, and also wants us to show many of our coworkers our chapter/paper drafts to get revisions. I have heard of others that only want to see the final or almost final drafts, or have different approaches.
 
I...am in a position to receive insight here rather than provide it.
My master's paper wasn't so hot, and I've caught the procrastination bug rather than resigning myself to a 'full time job' routine that would be quite a boon to me (eg, I'm posting on here right nao rather than reading up).

One unexpected issue (okay...two issues) popped up during my masters revision: managing the caprice of advisers' feedback and inter-faculty conflict over the direction of my research.

Basically, because my adviser wanted a particular focus in my masters and my "second reader" found something else more compelling, my first draft was a tad incoherent, moving in too many directions sans wider integration.

Also, my adviser's feedback, I later found, would often be idiosyncratic to his own whims, also changing (and presenting minor internal contradictions) from draft to draft. So how to reckon the general strength of the argument vs. placating your immediate audience....hmmm...

ebola
 
Basic recipe:

  • Work and Break; Repeat.

    Read and work regularly for 6 days. Sustained reading and writing is actually quite draining, so breaks are normal and recommended. Try 3 hours of immersion, then a break with some reward, then 3 hours, then a break with some reward.
  • Get intimate with your work.

    Allow yourself to doodle and fiddle--don't fall into the trap of thinking that unless circumstances are perfect, or you're perfectly concentrated, you can't do anything. Sometimes the best work results from the idle thoughts or tinkering you're doing late or early, which suddenly blooms into something important. In other words, get close and comfortable to your material. Be able to sit down and browse through a book on occasion (this doesn't count as work-time, incidentally, in the sense of a targeted amount of writing/reading per day), or scratch out of some notes on the train, or see some relationship between your work and the time you wait for food at that ridiculously expensive sushi restaurant you frequent (one can dream).
  • Competing and Complimentary Behaviors

    Some behaviors compete with your target behaviors. You want to read/write for three hours this morning. Some behaviors will compete, and make that impossible. These include long browsing on the internet, glancing frequently at a television, etc. So you must think in terms not only of increasing the target behavior, but also decreasing competing behaviors (in whatever time-frame or circumstance you want to increase the target behavior).

    Some behaviors compliment your target behavior. These can encourage your target behavior, or make it easier. They might include simple things, like getting enough sleep the night before, getting chores and items out of the way or organized earlier, having some coffee and food with you, getting into a certain mindset about your work (relaxed, focused, and optimistic). Increase these.

Faculty politics. This is tough. Keep your thesis in perspective. It's really important, but it's not the last thing you will ever publish (don't you wish). If your advisor is completely unwilling to support your approach--which doesn't mean uncritically accepting it, since you want and need sharp criticism, but does mean an understanding that the approach is reasonable and valuable--then you will either need a new approach or a new advisor. This is why, sometimes, it's actually a bad idea to pick an advisor who is a big name but is (fanatically) wedded to the approach which made him a name.

Master's thesis to PhD thesis. Divergence will result in more work, but may ultimately remit a better return. Regardless, the key factor is focus now.

And look... frustration is normal, and is a good sign. Frustration means dissonance, means realization of an obstacle, and that is absolutely necessary to progress. Frustration is the difficulty you have breathing before you reach the top of a hill on a run. So, if you're reading this as a means of avoiding writing or reading, and you can feel an underlying anxiety, and some frustration attached to the very thought of working, start breathing regularly and deeply, realize that your work is going to turn out great, understand that you're going to close this window and calmly, deliberately, start to work, and that you'll return in a couple of hours to give us all some better advice. :)
 
Heh...thanks...didn't want to intimate that I'm in crisis, but some useful stuff.
I kinda always new what to do...it's just breaking the habit of putting in few hours, and letting those hours be interrupted...it worked in undergrad...

ebola
 
Thanks to everyone for your input... Been really helpful to get some outside perspective on this. I'm sure everything will turn out fine as for the first time in my life I'm actually preparing for a deadline months in advance...

Basic recipe:

  • Work and Break; Repeat.

    Read and work regularly for 6 days. Sustained reading and writing is actually quite draining, so breaks are normal and recommended. Try 3 hours of immersion, then a break with some reward, then 3 hours, then a break with some reward.
  • Get intimate with your work.

    Allow yourself to doodle and fiddle--don't fall into the trap of thinking that unless circumstances are perfect, or you're perfectly concentrated, you can't do anything. Sometimes the best work results from the idle thoughts or tinkering you're doing late or early, which suddenly blooms into something important. In other words, get close and comfortable to your material. Be able to sit down and browse through a book on occasion (this doesn't count as work-time, incidentally, in the sense of a targeted amount of writing/reading per day), or scratch out of some notes on the train, or see some relationship between your work and the time you wait for food at that ridiculously expensive sushi restaurant you frequent (one can dream).
  • Competing and Complimentary Behaviors

    Some behaviors compete with your target behaviors. You want to read/write for three hours this morning. Some behaviors will compete, and make that impossible. These include long browsing on the internet, glancing frequently at a television, etc. So you must think in terms not only of increasing the target behavior, but also decreasing competing behaviors (in whatever time-frame or circumstance you want to increase the target behavior).

    Some behaviors compliment your target behavior. These can encourage your target behavior, or make it easier. They might include simple things, like getting enough sleep the night before, getting chores and items out of the way or organized earlier, having some coffee and food with you, getting into a certain mindset about your work (relaxed, focused, and optimistic). Increase these.

Faculty politics. This is tough. Keep your thesis in perspective. It's really important, but it's not the last thing you will ever publish (don't you wish). If your advisor is completely unwilling to support your approach--which doesn't mean uncritically accepting it, since you want and need sharp criticism, but does mean an understanding that the approach is reasonable and valuable--then you will either need a new approach or a new advisor. This is why, sometimes, it's actually a bad idea to pick an advisor who is a big name but is (fanatically) wedded to the approach which made him a name.

Master's thesis to PhD thesis. Divergence will result in more work, but may ultimately remit a better return. Regardless, the key factor is focus now.

And look... frustration is normal, and is a good sign. Frustration means dissonance, means realization of an obstacle, and that is absolutely necessary to progress. Frustration is the difficulty you have breathing before you reach the top of a hill on a run. So, if you're reading this as a means of avoiding writing or reading, and you can feel an underlying anxiety, and some frustration attached to the very thought of working, start breathing regularly and deeply, realize that your work is going to turn out great, understand that you're going to close this window and calmly, deliberately, start to work, and that you'll return in a couple of hours to give us all some better advice. :)

Thank a lot for this Heuristic, it was a great help and reassurance reading that... I think one of my main problems is procrastination, however as you have pointed out, those time when your day dreaming can result in great realisations about your work... I just need to make sure my procrastination is more productive then simply browsing the internet in the future :D

My supervisor is great and will support whatever approach I choose to tackle this. Although I feel that this could be a slightly negative point, I need someone who will set me deadlines and make me stick to them. I previously used to put off work untill the deadline was approaching and then I got 'the fear' and worked my arse off untill the work was complete.

Guessing this will not work for my thesis so I might have a word with her soon and ask her to be a bit more strict with my time-keeping and set deadlines for submission of manuscript drafts etc which can be built on to produce thesis chapters...

Thanks again for the input guys, it has been a great help. Since I posted this thread I am over halfway through the first draft of my first publication, which should be completed within the next week or so... =D
 
I have noticed that many people I know that have gone through PhDs always make lots of little notes throughout the day or require a minimum number of thoughts for each day and stuff like that (one of my friends made a huge stack of post-its, lol). This provides two things - 1) a good way to remember lots of little great ideas you might have at odd moments, 2) a good way to suss out which are the main themes you should focus on and use to direct your research (you will inevitably have repeat notes, and those ideas are the ones you should then focus on).

I'm doing a thesis (I guess a "mini-thesis" really) to receive an honors undergraduate degree, and I have found it extremely helpful to have a little notebook with a running list of notes and ideas in it that I can look at when I'm designing parts of my work. I'm investigating a field in bioinformatics that is pretty much untouched, so there are a million things to look at - jotting stuff down helps me organize better and get focused because I can look at everything in one spot.
 
That is a very good point... I keep on meaning to get a pocket note book... I do have these thoughts and ideas at random times throughout the day, but always seem to forget them when I'm in front of my laptop - my memory is terrible...

Thanks for reminding me rantNrave
 
Ebola, didn't mean to imply you were in a crisis. Reading it now, I see how it could come across that way. Sorry about that. Although, aren't you studying sociology? Does that qualify as a crisis? ;)

Samb, no problem, just basic behavioral theory. I've been surprised personally at how well little things, like changing behavioral cues, focusing on antecedents, etc., translate into large changes in targeted behavior.

I guess one other point would be to be wary of the trap of endlessly reading and researching existing literature before allowing yourself to write. It sounds like you've avoided it, but it's easy to stumble into while on the legitimate path of necessary reading and research. When you're at the point where the things you're reading are referencing each other, you're probably deep enough in the conversation to add your own viewpoint.

Setting early deadlines just takes some practice and a good imagination. There's nothing magical to it. Set a deadline, figure out what you'll have to do to meet it, arrange your environment (everything... social obligations, food, bills, physical surroundings) to enable those actions to happen, devise some reward if you meet it, some punishment if you don't, and try it out. When you don't meet it, analyze the problem, reset, and try again.
 
Top