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Writing a Novel

Bardeaux

Bardeaux

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
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I figured this would be better suited here than in Words, as I'm not trying to submit anything at this point and this forum usually generates lots of great feedback.

SO.

I've decided to write a novel and I have a VERY good editor who keeps me in line. I have several character profiles written (many are based on real life acquaintances), I have settings described,potential interactions outlined. I have about 5k words of absolutely nothing but general outlining and character building. I plan doubling that by adding on many more characters and scenes as things get (much) more serious, before I finally get down to writing and completing a story line.

My question to you is, what is the most important part of a good novel? Is it character construction and development? Is it scenic communication? Is it an idea that the author is trying to push to its audience? I realize it's a subjective and difficult question, but to YOU, what makes a so good that it is nearly impossible to put down without finishing?
 
While I could answer your questions, I am actually intrigued that at this stage of your writing that you are not simply writing the book that you want/need to write with no thought at all of what a reader might want. You have a story to tell and it is burning to be told, right? It seems that writing it down as it writes itself in your head is the writer's task (and a difficult one!).

I guess complexity of characters would top my list. Books that have obvious bad characters and obvious good characters drive me crazy. give me complex human beings that are neither completely vilified nor completely romanticized. Make me understand someone I could not normally relate to and surprise me with a character I am sure I understand by showing me that person's contradictions.

Second on my list: believable dialogue.

After those, I can't think of anything else that I would say is universally important in every novel I have read. I could say that an interesting plot is important to me but instantly I can think of beautiful lyrical books that practically had no plot at all. Mostly it is a writer that can write and how they choose to do that is unique to that writer. I look forward to reading your book because from the little I know you on these boards I know that you are a nuanced thinker.

Keep us posted because it's exciting.:)
 
Straight forward answer: the story your are going to tell. And, most importantly, the title which is going to make people buy your novels.
I´ve read pretty good books that took long to reach me due to wrong tiles or not as appealing. The contrary applies accordingly.
 
herbavore said:
While I could answer your questions, I am actually intrigued that at this stage of your writing that you are not simply writing the book that you want/need to write with no thought at all of what a reader might want. You have a story to tell and it is burning to be told, right? It seems that writing it down as it writes itself in your head is the writer's task (and a difficult one!).

I guess complexity of characters would top my list. Books that have obvious bad characters and obvious good characters drive me crazy. give me complex human beings that are neither completely vilified nor completely romanticized. Make me understand someone I could not normally relate to and surprise me with a character I am sure I understand by showing me that person's contradictions.

Second on my list: believable dialogue.

After those, I can't think of anything else that I would say is universally important in every novel I have read. I could say that an interesting plot is important to me but instantly I can think of beautiful lyrical books that practically had no plot at all. Mostly it is a writer that can write and how they choose to do that is unique to that writer. I look forward to reading your book because from the little I know you on these boards I know that you are a nuanced thinker.

Keep us posted because it's exciting.:)
Click to expand...

That would be my response which basically sums it all up!
 
i like herbavore's response, but imho the right answer to this question doesn't become obvious until you focus on just getting stuff published and finding your target audience. there's so much content being spewed out into the world on a daily basis these days that it's become difficult to compete with prolific writers who are able to pump out good content on a weekly cycle. lots of great novels get published, but how many are ones that we haven't heard of because they failed to catch traction right away and got buried by the flow of fresh content? thinking less about writing and just doing more of it helps.
 
I like novels where the character fails. Yeah okay maybe I'm a pessimist, but I much prefer where the main character does not succeed, is crushed by evil, cannot handle it. Sometimes novels give people a sense of false hope that things are going to be better or fine, which isn't true. I prefer things to be as realistic as possible. The last novel I could not put down was Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman. I finished it one sitting, not just because it was short (maybe like 200 pages?) but because it captured the perfect essence of how frightening childhood can be, how horrifying real life is. The main character was an empty vessel, I can't even tell you what his name is now and I finished it two days ago, (this sort of empty vessel is also present in The Phantom Tollbooth, another vaguely terrifying book about childhood), but you don't have to have strong main characters to have a strong story. This was just some average little boy, didn't like his babysitter, didn't like vegetables, was unsure what to trust in front of his eyes. It's an everyone and no one. I've started re-reading Ocean just because of how frightening it was. It's been a long time since I was honestly scared of a book. I'm looking for rich textures, rich environments for which to set our character and their struggles. In terms of that I even enjoy excess, a depth of things that allows me to get lost. Thick, humid, velvety worlds.

I haven't even answered your question. I like themes. So, like above, the horror of childhood, the on going battle between good and evil, man vs nature, whatever. The reason I don't much care for characters because there aren't many characters out there for me to relate to, so instead I've learned to turn my focus to the problem, the thing to be addressed, the evil. The gods and monsters. Still not helping.

Technical stuff - I write tons of fan fiction. I mean metric fucking tons of fan fiction. I also write shit tons of statements, press releases, etc for work. Ulysses is a Mac app I recommend to every kind of writer out there ever. I use it for work and for my little mysteries I write in my free time. It's honestly changed how I work. I didn't pay for it and I don't think you should either, but it's worth looking for.
 
I have no idea what thujone is going on about, but having believable characters that have depth and seem human is something that draws me in. I'm a fan of Fante & Bukowski, so something along those lines --- a Bandini or a Chinaski.
 
Max Power said:
I have no idea what thujone is going on about, but having believable characters that have depth and seem human is something that draws me in. I'm a fan of Fante & Bukowski, so something along those lines --- a Bandini or a Chinaski.
Click to expand...

lol fante. I re-read The Road to Los Angeles a couple of months ago. that guy is an asshole.
 
Apart from the above, I'd cut the characters down considerably. You want a minimum of main characters and adding more just makes things confusing unless you are an expert writer. Head-hopping is a very difficult task for an author and even more so for a reader unless it is done very, very well.

Bare bones outline, not complex. I know it sounds great to have a 20k outline so you can just fill in the dialogue but when you write things will change and mostly, you'll have just wasted all that outlining time. Chapters with a 3 or 4 line description of what happens in each is about it, with maybe some side notes such as character profiles for the 4 main characters (e.g. hero, heroine or love interest, villain and obstacle)

Maybe also a brief overview of the story... e.g. Quest to find champion horse, gf says horse or me, mafia steal horse and he tracks them. Teams with kung fu girl to get horse and her uncle. Wins big race and returns home rich. gf wants marriage but he goes after kung fu girl.

And that's about all you need, just a guide as to direction.

Then write.
 
Like any art, the magic that makes it good (or even great like a classic) is not quantifiable in any way.
 
thujone said:
i like herbavore's response, but imho the right answer to this question doesn't become obvious until you focus on just getting stuff published and finding your target audience. there's so much content being spewed out into the world on a daily basis these days that it's become difficult to compete with prolific writers who are able to pump out good content on a weekly cycle. lots of great novels get published, but how many are ones that we haven't heard of because they failed to catch traction right away and got buried by the flow of fresh content? thinking less about writing and just doing more of it helps.
Click to expand...

I agree. And character development is important but without an interesting story line that grabs people I don't see much coming out of it. Authors are a dime a dozen. I'd focus more on having a rough outline of the actual plot and any messages or thoughts you want to convey in the story before just creating a bunch of characters.
 
thanks, herbavore! What an insightful post!

thujone said:
i like herbavore's response, but imho the right answer to this question doesn't become obvious until you focus on just getting stuff published and finding your target audience. there's so much content being spewed out into the world on a daily basis these days that it's become difficult to compete with prolific writers who are able to pump out good content on a weekly cycle. lots of great novels get published, but how many are ones that we haven't heard of because they failed to catch traction right away and got buried by the flow of fresh content? thinking less about writing and just doing more of it helps.
Click to expand...

That's the thing though, whether I sell only one copy (to my mother) or millions is of very little importance to me. I really don't care who does or doesn't pay attention to my work, as it's my work, not theirs, if that connects with you. I have no interest in competing with prolific writers, I'll even find a way to self publish if that's an issue! What's important to me is creating this story, seeing it to the end, standing back while saying "I wrote this. This is my life between these pages".

For everyone else, I very much appreciate your feedback. I find that much of what most of you have suggested has already been introduced into the process. I have maybe 4 main characters (including the protagonist), a few passersby and a small array of peripheral characters. The theme of the story is very much the heart and soul of the story. It's not going to be as unique as Brave New World exactly, but I know you Ken ;) I think you'll dig.

For an update, I've completed my first chapter (Not Chapter 1) I started out in a non-linear way of starting the process. I think after the next several linear chapters though, I'll start things off from the beginning.
 
when you mentioned an editor i just assumed you were talking about writing in a professional capacity. well, good luck, hope you end up publishing something
 
Oh, no she's just an English graduate lol. She's been a tremendous help, fwiw.

I'm considering changing my major again to creative writing (I have a knack for terrible career choices). So writing something of my own in a professional capacity might be a real option later on.
 
having taken creative writing courses in high-school, university and otherwise (public libraries sometimes offer a series of workshops with local authors) all i can say is audit the shit out of each creative writing course before you choose that as your major. i found university to be the worst environment for creative writing because it's a bunch of inexperienced kids locked in a room with an academic who may or may not have any life experience of their own and there's a major possibility of it being completely fucking useless. half the class will always be there wasting your precious learning time taking it as a bird course and if the professor is enough of an idiot to structure the class in a way that forces people to show up then you might as well just put your money in a bag and toss it out a window. audit some philosophy courses while you're at it, you might find they stoke your creative fires moreso than something strictly writing-related.
 
The only thing I'm worried about is gainful employment while I run my personal writing exercises. How loose is the content writing and journalist businesses? Do I necessarily need a degree in these fields in order to make ends meet or is it pretty much based on merit and ability instead?
 
you pretty much need to be a J-school grad just to fetch coffee at a newspaper, but special interest mags accept phenomenal articles ("good" just doesn't seem to cut it) from anyone with experience in related fields. there's no end to blogs of lesser importance that will pay for content but you will seldom be credited, they're run by people who don't inspire much confidence and the income will suck worse than min wage until you get the business savvy to figure out what jobs are a waste of time and what will help you get ahead. in the end it all comes back to experience, the more you publish the more your portfolio grows and the greater the selection you can cherry-pick from.
 
Erikmen said:
Straight forward answer: the story your are going to tell. And, most importantly, the title which is going to make people buy your novels.
I´ve read pretty good books that took long to reach me due to wrong tiles or not as appealing. The contrary applies accordingly.
Click to expand...

^^^
This.

I would also like to write a novel with perhaps a lot of characters; but I would not put in so many characters that the story gets confusing, or that the reader no longer cares to read the story, about what happens to the main character(s), or that they don't get confused by all of the large number of characters in the novel.

I've read a few books where there were too many characters and most people reading it would get confused, bored, or like certain characters who you never would read about again. Or some of the characters were pretty much alike and could have just been combined into a single character instead of 3-5 different people.
 
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