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Would you legalise drugs?

Lysergic Acids laws in US

People will be able to consume LSD and LSA for private and religous use in their home or designated areas.

A person under the age of 18 may not consume them without parental consent.

A person may not drive or operate heavy machinery while under there influence.

You may not take/use/sell/ be influenced by them in public locations.

Commiting a crime while under there influence can double your jail sentence and fine.

Violating the law while under there influence will allow authoritys to revoke your right to use them for up to 10 months.

You may not create/extract them without obtaining a liscence and taking a class. All labrotory equipment must be kept clean and will be inspected regularly.

You may not extract/create in a public location or a place where it may be a disturbance to others.

In clubs, raves, etc it will only be allowed if the locations owner accepts its use.

There
 
well it appears you didn't actually read the studies he linked to. THC was one of the chemicals that reduced neurotoxicity!

You can equally find compelling research on the neurtoxicity of THC. Just becasue it acts as an antioxidant in certain instances doesn't mean it can't cause damage elsewhere.

Hippocampal Neurotoxicity of 9-Tetrahydrocannabinol
Guy Chiu-Kai Chan, Thomas R. Hinds, Soren Impey, and Daniel R. Storm
Department of Pharmacology, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington 98195


Marijuana consumption elicits diverse physiological and psychological effects in humans, including memory loss. Here we report that 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major psychoactive component of marijuana, is toxic for hippocampal neurons. Treatment of cultured neurons or hippocampal slices with THC caused shrinkage of neuronal cell bodies and nuclei as well as genomic DNA strand breaks, hallmarks of neuronal apoptosis. Neuron death induced by THC was inhibited by nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, including indomethacin and aspirin, as well as vitamin E and other antioxidants. Furthermore, treatment of neurons with THC stimulated a significant increase in the release of arachidonic acid. We hypothesize that THC neurotoxicity is attributable to activation of the prostanoid synthesis pathway and generation of free radicals by cyclooxygenase. These data suggest that some of the memory deficits caused by cannabinoids may be caused by THC neurotoxicity.
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/18/14/5322

The most consistent effect of delta-9-THC on performance is disruption of selective aspects of short-term memory tasks (Herkenham et al. 1990). An investigation into this matter has shown that THC neurotoxicity may be responsible for memory loss. In the study, treatment of cultured neurons of hippocampal slices with THC caused shrinkage of neuronal cell bodies and nuclei as well as genomic DNA strand breaks (Cadena et al. 1996).
http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_168.html

Oh, and the next time you tell me not to "embarress" myself, you should really learn the correct spelling of the word. One would, however, embarrass himself thinking THC doesn't do any damage to the human body. And thank you for helping this thread get off topic.
 
Oh, and the next time you tell me not to "embarress" myself, you should really learn the correct spelling of the word. One would, however, embarrass himself thinking THC doesn't do any damage to the human body. And thank you for helping this thread get off topic.
you critisize me for mispelling embarrass, then say i go off topic in the same paragraph. nice. btw, how did i go off topic?

mind getting it back on topic if it was ever off topic, or are you going to leave your argument dead? it's an interesting argument, i usually don't hear people use the healthcare cost as an argument (it seems to me that healthcare costs would decrease upon legalization)

about your studies, are they using rat neurons?
bilz0r had a metastudy that concluded that while there is evidence for neurotoxicity in rats, there is none for neurotoxicity in the rhesus monkey or in humans

in my attempt to find the study, i found this, by bilzor..
The evidence, as far as I know it, shows that in low use, the cognitive effect is minimal [ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=15697050&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum] and in heavy cannabis users, they return to normal WITH TIME [ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=11576028&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum]
 
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I think drug use would sky rocket if they were all legal. Here is my reason for this:

Alcohol and Tobacco are extremely widely used in society today, much much more than any illegal drug. Why do you think that is?

Im sure its not because they are such wonderful, harmless drugs. Or because of the great feeling you get from them. Simply, its because they are the only way for alot of people to get high/drunk/fucked up, whatever you call it. They are the most widely available to majority of people, and being legal many get a false impression that they arent harmful.

Thats why I think drug use would go up a huge amount if they were legal. And in turn it would cost society huge amounts in healthcare to treat all the problems that arose from drug use - like overdoses, mental problems, addiction treatement etc. The same way that alcohol and cigarettes already cost so much in healthcare.

Its a personal anecdote, but if I had legal access any drug I wanted, Id be doing opiates and benzos every day. As it is now I rarely if ever do them, simply because I have no access to them.
 
basix said:
I think drug use would sky rocket if they were all legal. Here is my reason for this:

Alcohol and Tobacco are extremely widely used in society today, much much more than any illegal drug. Why do you think that is?

Im sure its not because they are such wonderful, harmless drugs. Or because of the great feeling you get from them. Simply, its because they are the only way for alot of people to get high/drunk/fucked up, whatever you call it. They are the most widely available to majority of people, and being legal many get a false impression that they arent harmful.

Thats why I think drug use would go up a huge amount if they were legal. And in turn it would cost society huge amounts in healthcare to treat all the problems that arose from drug use - like overdoses, mental problems, addiction treatement etc. The same way that alcohol and cigarettes already cost so much in healthcare.

Its a personal anecdote, but if I had legal access any drug I wanted, Id be doing opiates and benzos every day. As it is now I rarely if ever do them, simply because I have no access to them.

lets say that most people who use alcohol and cigarettes switch to drugs. while this would be disastrous when drugs are illegal because of all the costs associated with illegal drug use, this would be better when drugs are legal! almost all costs from drugs are worsened by prohibition

even if tons of people used drugs after legalization, the cost of drugs would still be less than alcohol and cigarettes

this is because prohibition brings contaminents, unknown dose, stronger drugs so they are transported more efficiently in regards to sneaking things around, more injection because of the inflated drug prices, possibly more addiction because people are less likely to get treatment for fear of involving the authorities, homicide and violence due to the illegal market, theft due to inflated drug prices, and many more problems, all of which are quite costly
 
ebola? said:
Across the board legalization.

Thats a good end goal, but if you were to simply abolish every substance law on the planet all at once I think we'd have a serious problem. Theres all these taboos and whatnot surrounding drugs and if they were all of the sudden made totaly legal and ok to do, I'd be supprised if 1/2 of our youth make it past 20.

Legalize it all, but slowly, educating people along the way.
 
Qwedsa you have a point and there is definately alot of harm caused by prohibition, Im just not sure if that harm is more than what would happen if drugs were legal.
 
Many people here are not distinguising their position in terms of one of the original questions in this thread - "just for your own reasons or do you think these changes would be beneficial for society" It seems like personal opinions are being applied to the actions of society as a whole. You can't talk about legalizing drugs (especially if those drugs have no medical use) without taking into consideration on the majority, or middle America, in terms of the US.

Behaviors of middle American society will be much different than those of us here. If anyone here can dig up a nuclear family complete with soccer mom, NASCAR dad, and three kids that live in the burbs that post on bluelight, I think we need their opinion, as these are the people largely drive the laws.

Having that said the idea "lets say that most people who use alcohol and cigarettes switch to drugs" is not an accurate outlook. People who already use alcohol and cigarettes aren't going to "switch". They have already established addiction and/or habit, whether it be of any severity. Drugs will just be an additional tool to those behaviors. This is why you just can't use a simple side-by-side comparison.
 
Many people here are not distinguising their position in terms of one of the original questions in this thread - "just for your own reasons or do you think these changes would be beneficial for society" It seems like personal opinions are being applied to the actions of society as a whole. You can't talk about legalizing drugs (especially if those drugs have no medical use) without taking into consideration on the majority, or middle America, in terms of the US.

Behaviors of middle American society will be much different than those of us here. If anyone here can dig up a nuclear family complete with soccer mom, NASCAR dad, and three kids that live in the burbs that post on bluelight, I think we need their opinion, as these are the people largely drive the laws.
i'm middle class and you have my opinion

by the way, if a majority of the US doesnt think you should be allowed to twiddle your thums, or bang your head against hte wall, or practice kinky sex, or do drugs, or be gay, that doesnt mean any of these should be illegal. otherwise this isnt a "free" country at all, it's a majority dictatorship
 
I dunno, I think a LOT more people would be using drugs if they became illegal. I know a lot of people who are against, say, marijuana, simply because it's illegal. Their thinking: if it's illegal, it must be bad. I think if everything became legal, people would be trying a lot of different substances.

Not to mention, they would be way easier to get. Dealer not answering his phone? Is he out? Just run down to the pharmacy.

What about people who are shy, or have no way of obtaining these drugs currently, because they're illicit and they don't know how to get them? Now it's just a matter of walking to the store.

Plus, I totally agree with DJDanny about the cost to our healthcare system. I think costs would be astronomical. Not to mention other welfare type programs. Lets face it, drugs aren't *good* for you. I can imagine a lot more people, similar to alcoholics now, abusing their favorite drugs, and after 20+ years frying their minds, now their costs of living are being paid by other taxpayers.

I think legalization would be beneficial in some ways, such as reducing harm to current users by making available purer drugs,removing power from drug dealers, and freeing up some prison space, but I seriously don't think those benefits would outweigh the overall cost to society.
 
Notice I didn't use the word "class". Middle class denotes economic stature. Middle America encompasses the collectively percieved moral "norm" of social behavior (what's wholesome and what's not) and is composed up of a larger demographic than class alone. There are people who are upper class that share the same conservative values as people below the poverty line.
 
qwedsa said:
i'm middle class and you have my opinion

by the way, if a majority of the US doesnt think you should be allowed to twiddle your thums, or bang your head against hte wall, or practice kinky sex, or do drugs, or be gay, that doesnt mean any of these should be illegal. otherwise this isnt a "free" country at all, it's a majority dictatorship

Of course you are, but keep in mind: America is the land of the people. The laws we're set in place and then put up for editing.
 
Plus, I totally agree with DJDanny about the cost to our healthcare system. I think costs would be astronomical. Not to mention other welfare type programs. Lets face it, drugs aren't *good* for you. I can imagine a lot more people, similar to alcoholics now, abusing their favorite drugs, and after 20+ years frying their minds, now their costs of living are being paid by other taxpayers.
all medical costs would decrease, even if there were many more users

this is because under prohibition you have these things which put strain on the medical system:

contaminated drugs (contributes to both disease and overdose)
unknown dose (overdose)
more injection and higher concentrated drugs (disease (like AIDS) and overdose)
lack of labels (e.g. "Don't mix this drug with other strong CNS depressants")
homicide and violence (drug market)
property crime (not a medical cost, but still a big cost, as much as half of all theft in some major cities)
use starts at lower age (also seen with alcy in alcohol prohibition) (this might lead to more medical problems with drugs, such as addiction)

there are many more costs, some of them gigantic, but i just kept it to the medical costs

things that could increase medical costs after prohibition might be treatment (people wouldnt fear involving the authorities to get treatment for addiction) and pregnancy (prohibition discourages pregnant women from seeking prenatal care, treatment, and can lead to unnecessary abortions)

after prohibition, the health costs of doing drugs would be much smaller for just about any drug. stimulants will still be toxic/neurotoxic, but most other recreational drugs are not as hard on the body as people like to think
 
qwedsa said:
all medical costs would decrease, even if there were many more users

this is because under prohibition you have these things which put strain on the medical system:

contaminated drugs (contributes to both disease and overdose)
unknown dose (overdose)
more injection and higher concentrated drugs (disease (like AIDS) and overdose)
lack of labels (e.g. "Don't mix this drug with other strong CNS depressants")
homicide and violence (drug market)
property crime (not a medical cost, but still a big cost, as much as half of all theft in some major cities)
use starts at lower age (also seen with alcy in alcohol prohibition) (this might lead to more medical problems with drugs, such as addiction)

Can you back that up with any actual research? :\

I think all the points you listed are assuming people will be using responsibly, once drugs are legal, when in reality, look at all the idiots driving cars when they are totally smashed and engaging in other risky behavior, not to mention deaths due to alcohol poisoning.

-Do you really think everyone is going stop and read labels? Even now, if anyone is concerned about mixing drugs all they have to do a little research on the internet.
-Homicide and other violent crimes won't end. I actually think that violent crimes among people with underlying dispositions beginning to use PCP, meth, and other drugs would cause major increases in violent crime, especially domestic disputes.
-Property crime go down? Again, I would doubt that. Kids getting their hands on drugs and going out with their friends being destructive, maybe even forming habits, and, not being old enough to legally purchase, breaking into people's homes to get their drugs.

I only mentioned a few things here. I don't think we can even really begin to comprehend the problems that would arise from across the board legalization.
 
I think all the points you listed are assuming people will be using responsibly, once drugs are legal, when in reality, look at all the idiots driving cars when they are totally smashed and engaging in other risky behavior, not to mention deaths due to alcohol poisoning.
mostly, it's not a matter of using responsibly, it's a matter of getting clean drugs and knowing the dose which has the potential to save lives

Can you back that up with any actual research?
yes

Homicide and other violent crimes won't end. I actually think that violent crimes among people with underlying dispositions beginning to use PCP, meth, and other drugs would cause major increases in violent crime, especially domestic disputes.

following studies summed up:violence due to the illegal market makes up most of the violence associated with drugs, and this violence would no longer apply in a legal atmosphere

"The chart at the right illustrates the homicide rate in the United States from 1900 to 1998. It is important to note that each of the most violent episodes in this century coincide with the prohibition on alcohol and the escalation of the modern-day war on drugs. In 1933 the homicide rate peaked at 9.7 per 100,000 people, which was the year that alcohol prohibition was finally repealed. In 1980, the homicide rate peaked again at 10 per 100,000."
Source: US Census Data and FBI Uniform Crime Reports.

"Generalizing from the findings on Prohibition, we can hypothesize that decriminalization would increase the use of the previously criminalized drug, but would decrease violence associated with attempts to control illicit markets and as resolutions to disputes between buyers and sellers. Moreover, because the perception of violence associated with the drug market can lead people who are not directly involved to be prepared for violent self-defense, there could be additional reductions in peripheral settings when disputes arise (see Blumstein & Cork, 1997; Sheley & Wright, 1996)."
Source: Jensen, Gary F., "Prohibition, Alcohol, and Murder: Untangling Countervailing Mechanisms," Homicide Studies, Vol. 4, No. 1 (Sage Publications: Thousand Oaks, CA, February 2000), pp. 33-4.

The Canadian Medical Association Journal published research on the impact of a police crackdown on a public illicit drug market in the Downtown Eastside (DTES) section of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. The researchers found that:
"Our results probably explain reports of increased injection drug use, drug-related crime and other public-order concerns in neighbourhoods where activities related to illicit drug use and the sex trade emerged or intensified in the wake of the crackdown. Such displacement has profound public-health implications if it "normalizes" injection drug use among previously unexposed at-risk youth. Furthermore, since difficulty in obtaining syringes has been shown to be a significant factor in promoting syringe sharing among IDUs in Vancouver, displacement away from sources of sterile syringes may increase the rates of bloodborne diseases. Escalated police presence may also explain the observed reduction in willingness to use a safer injection facility.33 It is unlikely that the lack of benefit of the crackdown was due to insufficient police resources. Larger crackdowns in the United States, which often involved helicopters to supplement foot and car patrols, have not had measurable benefits and have instead been associated with substantial health and social harms."
Source: Wood, Evan, Patricia M. Spittal, Will Small, Thomas Kerr, Kathy Li, Robert S. Hogg, Mark W. Tyndall, Julio S.G. Montaner, Martin T. Schechter, "Displacement of Canada's Largest Public Illicit Drug Market In Response To A Police Crackdown," Canadian Medical Association Journal, May 11, 2004: 170(10), pp. 1554-1555.

(paraphrase)even for crack cocaine, a very strong stimulant, 85% of violence associated with it is due to the black market surrounding it rather htan the pharmacological affects of the drug itself
Source: Goldstein, P.J., Brownstein, H.H., Ryan, P.J. & Bellucci, P.A., "Crack and Homicide in New York City: A Case Study in the Epidemiology of Violence," in Reinarman, C. and Levine, H. (eds.), Crack in America: Demon Drugs and Social Justice (Berkeley, CA: University of California Press, 1997), pp. 113-130.

-Property crime go down? Again, I would doubt that. Kids getting their hands on drugs and going out with their friends being destructive, maybe even forming habits, and, not being old enough to legally purchase, breaking into people's homes to get their drugs.
nearly all property crime associated with drugs is because addicts have to steal to finance their drug habit. this is because drug prices are inflated by the prohibition on drugs. after legalization, a heavy heroin addiction could be easily affordable on a low paying job

are kids breaking into homes now to get whiskey?

by the way, about this "destructive behavior," alcohol is the only known substance to commonly induce violent behavior. in rare cases, meth, pcp, and lsd, can cause violent reactions, probably due to underlying psychosis
forget where i found this one, ask and ill take the time to find it

can you imagine someone on ecstasy beating someone up, someone on heroin getting off the cozy couch and destroying property, someone on marijuana acting wreckless? the only substances id be worried about are the stimulants and alcohol. but this isnt grounds for illegalization of these drugs

I only mentioned a few things here. I don't think we can even really begin to comprehend the problems that would arise from across the board legalization.
i only mentioned a few things too:)

-Do you really think everyone is going stop and read labels? Even now, if anyone is concerned about mixing drugs all they have to do a little research on the internet.
no one really trusts the information sources warning about drug problems right now (and they shouldn't), and not everyone knows how to search the internet, seperating good sites and anti drug sites and pro drug sites, not everyone has the internet, and not everyone knows such information is available at their fingertips. a simple label with a scientifically established claim is vital with these drugs considering misinformation is one of the primary causes of death

the other primary causes will all cease to apply after legalization (contaminents, unknown dose, etc)

sources thanks to this book... http://www.drugwarfacts.org/

if i made a claim i havent sourced or fully explained just say so and ill address it
 
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Nice use of BOLD

I personally would like to say that I like substances illegal as they are.I don't like what happens when you get caught with a pill and then are sentenced to prison for about 3 years ;o

But to let you know,
DRUGS
ARE
NOT
SAFE
 
I would legalize them and get kids educated on them rather than use scare tactics which usually result in people dying due to people not knowing what they're doing.I'm lucky enough to of been educated on drugs before I started doing them, people only die from lack of education on drugs.If deaths were such an issue for drugs being illegal though, then why are ciggerates legal?It says 'smoking kills' on the packet ffs....
 
^ Why not have drugs remain illegal but still educate kids on the realities of drug use, instead of using government scare tactics?
 
Education is just a fraction of "drug awareness". You can be highly addicted and highly educated at the same time. An overdose doesn't always stem from misinformation. People who have pushed their tolerances to the limits are the common candidates for overdose as they always need highly toxic doses that produce the same effect as a typical dose would in a typical individual. I've known people from high school, college, and a few quasi-friends that overdosed. They where very educated people that let addiction overtake them. Cognitive dissonance is a very powerful thing in our society and has nothing to do with education. "Behavior" is the key word here.
 
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