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Would you legalise drugs?

basix

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Sep 22, 2003
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If you had the power to change whatever you wanted about your countries drug laws, what would you change?

And is it just for your own reasons or do you think these changes would be beneficial for society?

And if you think something shuold be legalised please say how it would be regulated and sold etc, and why your system would be better for society than current one (if it is)
 
This is from a thread I started in the wrong forum. It got locked, I said fuck it whatever. But it's pretty appropriate here.

My alternative to the current drug war:

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'm gonna fucking say it again. In fact, I'll probably repeat myself until I see someone else suggesting something similar. Well no, that's a lie because I've seen similar things but I'm still talking, eh? Oh well, I like my version.

I propose a system whereby users may attain licenses to use specific drugs with the availibility of licenses for sub-classes and entire classes of psychoactives. One will still have the issue of licensed users introducing the substance to the unlicensed, but that's not very different from the circumstances that we have now. One may argue that the availibility of the drug to unlicensed will increase as we can assume that drug use overall would increase. This is why amounts would, of course, be controlled. Easiest way would probably be like 1 dose sold a week, 2 doses sold a week, 3 doses, etc. This would all vary based on the drug (and the dose of each would obviously be different among licensees). Doses would be sold in increasing amounts based on responsible use of the substance. There'd be different levels, novice, intermediate, advanced, expert, what have you. (As an aside, how cool would it be to say "I'm an expert heroin user"? :) Or, whatever drug of your choice...)

The process for licensing would be the following:
1. Physical evaluation. Are you healthy enough to use? maybe you can use relatively benign substances like alcohol or cannabis, but cannot use amphetamine due to heart complications or whatever.
2. Psychological evaluation. Are you stable enough to use?
3. Drug information class (NOT general, specific to the drug you're applying for)
4. Application (include full criminal background check for violent crimes)
All of this would cost money. But guess what? Drug use is a luxury. Luxuries cost. Nice luxuries cost a lot. I can't really think of a better luxury than being able to go get a clean, strong dose of the drug of my choice for a reasonable price, from the gov't or gov't licensed dispensaries, without fear of arrest or social persecution. Some may cry about the poor being pushed out of the game or whatever and say that this only serves the rich, but I'm not talking ridiculous expensive here. A decent sum though. Hell, if you're already doing drugs habitually, you've certainly got ways of acquiring money, so fucking save up, buy a license, and get drugs for cheap. Or don't, you know. Individual choice. The licenses are permanent providing that there are no transgressions and the following are met:

The phys and psych eval would not need to be done for every application, only annually for phys and bi annually for psych. Classes would have to be taken once every two years. Annual application renewal fees apply. Penalties for distribution with a license to a non-licensee would be WORSE than distribution from non-licensee to non-licensee. And really, I don't know what the incentive is for a licensee to distribute to a non-licensee, outside of profit. But the average user typically wants just to be able to sustain themselves, and if drugs were cheap, profit motives would be lessened, I believe. Additionally, if you're making enough money to get a drug license, you probably really don't need the few extra bucks here and there that selling your minute quantities of drugs for will net you. If a licensee were caught selling to a non-licensee, caught operating a motor vehicle under the influence, or otherwise commiting criminal acts under the influence, the license would be immediately revoked, and the penalties for a crime committed under the influence would be worse than penalties for a crime committed sober. Overall, the idea would be that you're seriously fucked if you go through all the hassle to get a license only to abuse it. And these license-abusing penalties can be a little harsh purely because they're something you sign up for.

Sharing between licensees is a simple procedure. If the sharer has an advanced or expert (ie higher level) license, they would be allowed to share the drug for which they are issued a license with another user who has a license from the same class of psychoactives. For example, if one had a license for oxycodone, and a friend with a high level fentanyl or morphine license, those two could share fent or morph. As an aside, I'm still not sure whether or not I think it's a good idea to do class-wide licensing (ie hallucinogens, opiates, etc.). Maybe it'd be something users could work up to, but not apply for from the start.

The goal is to make it so that no users want to remain unlicensed. Users can have an accurate dose, 100% purity, reasonable prices, and good times with like minded friends free from the law. Oppositely, users can have illicit market quality, unknown purity, inflated prices, and posession charges. Of course, a significant portion (most hopefully a significant minority) would choose to remain unlicensed, but this is no different from teh current situation. Licensing needs to be seen as an asset instead of an obstacle. This would better the drug situation in this country. This would increase gov't revenues. This would be a Good Thing™. The more users that see this, the more they will buy in.

There was something else I intended to cover, but it's slipping me at the moment. Unfortunate. Anyway, this proposed alternative to prohibition does one thing that some other alternatives do not: it saves the DEA. The illicit drug market would take a serious fucking hit, but I really believe that it would continue. Much of the DEA can still serve its purpose, fighting the illicit drug market. I, for one, would favor the DEA in such a situation beacuse it would push users from unlicensed use to licensed use, which would increase revenue from the system. And the DEA could also be trimmed down, LEOs transferred to other departments of the US because there's obviously still real crime to fight. Or maybe the DEA could expand, fuck. Outright pay or monetarily support professionals around the country who specialize in psychological/physical evaluation or drug education. The DEA would be the one processing the application. But now I'm more throwing ideas around than laying them out, so I'll stop.

Oh yes, I remember what it was that I intended to cover: Not all drugs would be legal. Hallucinogens, cannabis, alcohol, opiates (think medical use WRT saftey, not street use) and similar drugs which are pretty fucking safe for the vast majority of users would have licensing programs, but more physically damaging drugs like the cardiotoxic cocaine or ridiculously addictive methamphetamine would be heavily restricted, if not left outright illegal. I don't really know what to do about the ones that can pose serious physical harm quite yet.

Another goal of the project is to make it so that most non-users aren't particularly interested in going through the process to become users. Having an enabler (such as licensing) between illegal and legal use would prevent the "drugs are legal so let's go batshit insane" scenarios often spouted by those opposing outright legalization schemes.

Preaching to the choir a bit, I think we can all agree that it's fucking AD 2005. It's time to recognize the basic human instinct of altered consciousness. This model does not solve all the problems, but it solves many while also allowing citizens to explore their consciousness and variants thereof in a responsible and controlled manner. It allows users to simply be who they are, not a criminal due to their own self-affecting decisions. Many of the illegal drugs, from cannabis to heroin, mushrooms, amphetamine, et al are used without significant negative consequence. It's fucking wrong that this is ignored by the current proponents of continued illegalization, but hell, omission of this serves to keep substances illegal so what can ya expect?

Of course I'd love it if drugs could just be legal with no worries and shit, but a) I don't think society could handle that and b) there are way too much infrastructures and jobs at stake to ever expect that prohibition will just get thrown out the window.

That's all the ramble I got for ya right now. :|
 
Its kind of stupid imo to keep some drugs illegal. the whole purpose of legalization is to get rid of the crime and everything that results from the black market. if you leave cocaine illegal, the ntheres still a black market, still lots of crime going on to support habits etc. cocaine and heroin would be the worst ones to leave illegal. not to mention the basic idea that people should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies.
 
basix said:
If you had the power to change whatever you wanted about your countries drug laws, what would you change?
I'd choose legalization over prohibiton any day, but if I only had the power to legalize drugs in my own country I'm not sure I would do it. Doing this would result in my country becoming a free haven for organized crime making money on drugs in countries where prohibiton is still in place. I think more than one country has to implement legalization in order for it to work.
 
No. I suspect the amount of deaths due to drugs would sky rocket.

Seriously, vicodin is needed with a prescription and a license. You still see kids getting ahold of it one way or another.

There'll always be ways. It'd be best to keep them illegal. I'd rather just have the drugs confiscated and then give the person a fine or something.
 
Cyrus said:
I suspect the amount of deaths due to drugs would sky rocket.
Why do you suspect this? Most drug related deaths are overdoses resulting from the user not knowing how potent a certain batch of his drug is, this wouldn't happen in anywhere near the same degree if the drugs were sold legally.

Seriously, vicodin is needed with a prescription and a license. You still see kids getting ahold of it one way or another.
If you wish to eradicate drug use, neither the current style of prohibiton or legalization is your choice. Eradicating drug use totally is impossible, the only way to reduce usage by any significant degree would be capital punishment for any drug related crime. This would probably reduce drug use by some extent, the question is if you can defend it morally.

There'll always be ways.
Exactly. People will get drugs whether their illegal or not.

I'd rather just have the drugs confiscated and then give the person a fine or something.
Would you prefer this treatment only for posession of the currently illegal drugs, ie. will acohol and cigarettes be exempt from this law and if so, why?
 
"This would probably reduce drug use by some extent, the question is if you can defend it morally."

Can you defend current punishment for drugs morally?



Total legalization for adults.
 
I would never legalize drugs. I use all sorts of drugs from bud to amphetamines to vicodin and I think it would be way too dangerous.

However, IM A BIG fan of high tolerance. They should be worrying about dealers not the so called "abusers" . Have laws set up so personal amounts i.e. 5 grams or less would just be confiscated and nothing else just a friendly warning such as "Please be careful". This rule would only apply to people of 21+. Younger people would just get a fine of $200 and poof thats all...after 2nd time drug classes/rehab would be enforced along with a fine and after 3rd time ($2500 fine or 1 month jail time).
 
Mr. Robo-Tripper said:
I would never legalize drugs. I use all sorts of drugs from bud to amphetamines to vicodin and I think it would be way too dangerous.

However, IM A BIG fan of high tolerance. They should be worrying about dealers not the so called "abusers" . Have laws set up so personal amounts i.e. 5 grams or less would just be confiscated and nothing else just a friendly warning such as "Please be careful". This rule would only apply to people of 21+. Younger people would just get a fine of $200 and poof thats all...after 2nd time drug classes/rehab would be enforced along with a fine and after 3rd time ($2500 fine or 1 month jail time).

Who are you to tell me, or anyother adult for that matter, what to do?
 
Legalize all drugs, then regulate their sales as we do alcohol and cigarettes. Increase penalties for drug related crimes, especially driving while intoxicated, et cetera. Possession higher than a certain amount should be punishable by fines.
 
goatofthenever said:
"This would probably reduce drug use by some extent, the question is if you can defend it morally."

Can you defend current punishment for drugs morally?
No, but more so than the form of punishment I outlined.

Mr. Robo-Tripper said:
They should be worrying about dealers not the so called "abusers" .
So you should be allowed to use drugs, but the persons allowing you to use drugs (the dealers) should be punished?

Indelibleface said:
Possession higher than a certain amount should be punishable by fines.
Why should we be fined for posessing something legal?
 
to prevent individuals from distributing it and reaping what would be the government's profits.
 
Umm... if drugs were legalized and sold like alcohol and cigarettes how would individuals distributing it be reaping government profits? The government would of course tax the drugs but it wouldn't sell them, the stores will take care of this... just as with alcohol and cigarettes.
 
Redeemer, tell me how many people die each year to due alchohol related accidents; I'm pretty sure if you were to legalize a majority of the psychoactive drugs, abuse would be WAY more than it is now, increasing the risk from drugs to injury/accident tenfold. Drug use would increase at a skyrocketing pace and some people will just be too ignorant to look up any information on the substances they are taking because it's legal.

This, in my opinion, is bad.

And we're talking about something thats on the blackmarket. If people are thinking 21 and over people could only be allowed to buy it, we all know that the kiddies are still going to get their shit; and then still be prone to abuse.

It's not as if the blackmarket is going to say, "Blah, okay guys, they got us. Drugs are legal so I guess we'll stop with this trade of ours."

Alchohol is legal, but people are still makin' moonshine.

I wouldn't want them legalized but I sure as hell would like to change the law to become a bit more lineant on arrests for personal possesion/paraphernalia.
 
Cyrus said:
Redeemer, tell me how many people die each year to due alchohol related accidents; I'm pretty sure if you were to legalize a majority of the psychoactive drugs, abuse would be WAY more than it is now, increasing the risk from drugs to injury/accident tenfold. Drug use would increase at a skyrocketing pace and some people will just be too ignorant to look up any information on the substances they are taking because it's legal.
AFAIK the US has about 100,000 alcohol realted deaths per year. Alcohol is and will most likely be the most popular drug. Not many will prefer enjoying a fine dinner while tripping balls over sipping a glass of wine. And why do you believe that drug use will sky rocket? Will the obvious knowledge of the harms sorrounding drug use suddenly disappear if they were legalized?

But Curys, let me turn your question around and ask you this; since alcohol kills so many people shouldn't we criminalize this too as you seem convinced this is the most effective method for minimizing its harm?

This, in my opinion, is bad.
I agree. But is "being bad" a sufficient criterion for criminalization?

And we're talking about something thats on the blackmarket. If people are thinking 21 and over people could only be allowed to buy it, we all know that the kiddies are still going to get their shit; and then still be prone to abuse.
Some kids will undoubtedly have access to drugs post-legalization. Some kids undoubtedly have access to drugs pre-legalization. But the fact is that it's easier for kids in the US to get weed than it is alcohol, indicates that regulating drugs is a better alternative, wouldn't you say?

It's not as if the blackmarket is going to say, "Blah, okay guys, they got us. Drugs are legal so I guess we'll stop with this trade of ours."
Of course not. The goal of legalization is not to eradicate the harm sorrounding drug use, that's impossible, it is to reduce the harm sorrounding drug use.

Alchohol is legal, but people are still makin' moonshine.
How many people you know get drunk from moonshine and how many would prefer buying it in a store where they are certain of its contents and purity?
 
Cyrus said:
Redeemer, tell me how many people die each year to due alchohol related accidents; I'm pretty sure if you were to legalize a majority of the psychoactive drugs, abuse would be WAY more than it is now, increasing the risk from drugs to injury/accident tenfold. Drug use would increase at a skyrocketing pace and some people will just be too ignorant to look up any information on the substances they are taking because it's legal.

Responsible people should be punished for the dumb? Then we should outlaw all scissors except the safety so fuckup don't run with them.

Adults are responisble for themselves; the government is not a parent.


Cyrus said:
And we're talking about something thats on the blackmarket. If people are thinking 21 and over people could only be allowed to buy it, we all know that the kiddies are still going to get their shit; and then still be prone to abuse.

So, lets not legalize anything because the underage situation will remain the same?
As it stands it's easier for a child to get drugs than it is to get booze anyways.

Cyrus said:
It's not as if the blackmarket is going to say, "Blah, okay guys, they got us. Drugs are legal so I guess we'll stop with this trade of ours."

You're right, they will either move to another illegal activity because companies took all their profit or become a legitimate business themselves which will have to follow business laws.


Cyrus said:
Alchohol is legal, but people are still makin' moonshine.

They probably do, but it's not distributed on a large scale with it's unchecked impurities.
 
if you were to legalize a majority of the psychoactive drugs, abuse would be WAY more than it is now
your assumption is that their illegality is the primary reason most people who don't use drugs don't use them. this isnt true

increasing the risk from drugs to injury/accident tenfold
even if use went up, while mistakes made on drugs may go up with it, at the same time deaths and overdoses would decrease because there would be labels on drugs sold (Warning: combining this with a MAOI may result in serotonin syndrome) and the purity and dose would be known and there would be no contaminents. also, deaths and injuries due to the illegal drug trade would simply dissapear. the net result would be a reduction in injuries and deaths. in terms of accidental injuries and deaths, legalization is the way to go

If people are thinking 21 and over people could only be allowed to buy it, we all know that the kiddies are still going to get their shit; and then still be prone to abuse
marijuana has been almost universally available to teens for the past 30 years despite federal efforts. whether legal or illegal, kids will be able to get the drugs. many students report alcohol harder to get than marijuana. a dealer won't lose his "license" if he sells to minors like a liquor store might

It's not as if the blackmarket is going to say, "Blah, okay guys, they got us. Drugs are legal so I guess we'll stop with this trade of ours."
you're right. many of them might go out of business in a different way--they will simply be beat by companies. many might go to other illegal trades, but not all. the size of the illegal market is not determined by how many people want to sell in it. it's determined by demand

Alchohol is legal, but people are still makin' moonshine.
during prohibition, many more drinkers turned to hard liquor and moonshine rather than beer and wine. the same is true with today's prohibition of illegal drugs. the reason is that it is more economical when the prices of drugs are so inflated because of the war on drugs
 
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