Would Mind Control Be Possible?

[LandsUnknown]

I don't think mind control is anything to worry about. Our computer technology is nowhere near advanced enough for a device that controls someone's brain to exist, and such technology isn't going to come anytime soon..... likely not within anyone's lifetime that's alive today. However, from a philosophical standpoint, do you believe a mind control device/signal or whatever is even possible. Personally, I think that it isn't. What do you think?

 

[jammin83]

Are we talking mk ultra here or...?

short answer...yes.

go to CEP and start a thread about something controversial...maybe even slightly racist, sexist, homophobic or bashing abortion. watch the bots come out and tell you what you are supposed to think and tell you how you are supposed to say it.

 

[nuttynutskin]

We're already being controlled by technology in a sense anyways. People are so caught up in their cellphones and social media that they're losing a lot of real human interaction. I know I'm certainly guilty of this to a degree, although I don't own a working cellphone.

 

[belligerent drunk]

Direct mind control could be possible. If the model of consciousness that is based on electrochemical processes in the brain is correct, then in principle, you can think of a device that will influence particular pathways by electrical and/or chemical means. A very simple mind control method has been in existence for a very long time. Yes, I'm talking about psychoactive drugs. It's not mind control in the sense it's usually recognized, but they do influence the behaviour of a person by chemically altering the processes in the brain.

 

[swilow]

Mind control would have to come after huge advances in how we understand consciousness really. On dissoicatives I've seen how many elements appear to be involved in making and carrying out decisions, of which consciousness is but one aspect (and only a party with minor input it seems). I imagine coming to understand all these elements and then simulating them would be really difficult. And I think everyones brain would probably enact things in slightly different ways, making mind-control possibly harder.

I don't know if a fear gas (such as in one of the Christian Bale 'Batman' movies) really exists, but anything that could arouse strong emotion could be used as very crude mind control.

go to CEP and start a thread about something controversial...maybe even slightly racist, sexist, homophobic or bashing abortion. watch the bots come out and tell you what you are supposed to think and tell you how you are supposed to say it.

Off topic, but people really overstate how PC CE&P is. Its perfectly reasonable to expect people to avoid racism, sexism or homophobia as Bluelight is a forum for all nationalities. Regardless of your own views, everyone should be able to access HR info for drugs. I feel like the constant pointing out of how repressive and PC the left is has become another part of that sloganeering culture. Anyway, just saying.

 

[Ninae]

Writing and speech can be a form of mind control or at least a way of leading the mind. Hypnosis, NLP, subliminals, etc. Widely used in the media, politics, and commercials.

 

[Foreigner]

You don't need technology to control someone's mind. Look at something like EMDR, which is used for post traumatic stress. Someone discovered that making the eyes move in a certain direction while recalling a traumatic memory ends up reprocessing the thought in a therapeutic way. All you have to do is move your hands in a certain direction and stimulate the body in certain ways, and suddenly someone remembers something differently, or the memory becomes more distant. EMDR can mess people up for days or weeks. Just look at some of the experience reports online.

Hypnosis, as a genre, is incredibly effective. You can program people to do whatever you want, if you know how. There are lay people who can do it, and that's without any psychotropic aids, which is what most governments use nowadays. MK-ULTRA involved experimentation with high dose psychedelics. They mapped typical human responses and could reproduce these responses with reliability. We still don't even know the full extent of what the government knows how to do re: mind control. It's creepy as fuck, but you can bet they never stopped looking into it.

The whole ideal of mind control is to eliminate the mind's defense mechanisms until it is pliable and completely open to suggestion and re-programming. Humans have been able to do that in general ways since the 1950's. Who knows how specific it has become by now.

And that's even when not considering psychic abilities.

 

[belligerent drunk]

^ for some reason people see mind control as completely controlling another person's thought and actions. I believe that a primitive version of mind control is used in medicine, in essence. Psychological treatment, treatment with anti-depressants, treatment using electrical stimuli - it's all aimed at, essentially, planting particular thoughts/memories or removing them from a person's mind by altering the brain's circuits using outside effectors.

 

[JessFR]

If you mean mind control as in force people to believe anything with a piece of technology, no, we're not even close enough to speculate on the feasibility.

If you mean mind control in the practical sense, making people do what you want, we've already got all that figured out, look at advertising, how they design shopping malls, etc. It is ALL designed to subtly manipulate your actions and it all works VERY well. Does it work on EVERY person equally well without exception? Of course not. But it works on more than enough people to get what you want. Which for most people is money.

It goes so much further than the ads you see on TV. It's in everything and everywhere you go that is influenced by people who want you to give them your money. The casinos do it too. It all works, capitalism itself in many ways works, on selling you shit you don't really need by using tricks we've discovered to make you do things without thinking.

Pfft, the CIA, MKULTRA, that shits a joke, amateurs being paid too much for no results, and why is it such a failure? Because they're paid by taxes. They don't have capitalism functioning as a type of economic evolution ensuring only the best masters of the art of manipulation and influence end up on top, and the failures go bankrupt. The CIA gets their funding no matter how much of a waste of money some of their projects have been.

Mind control is real and you see it being used every day, every time you go to the store, at every shopping mall, on websites, billboards, built into the architecture of buildings themselves. Hurding you and everyone else around as cattle being farmed for our money. And it works brilliantly. Look at people who buy utterly useless weight loss products and get rich quick schemes falling for them again and again. Look at all the tricks casinos use to keep you there and gambling. And best of all half the time they fool you into thinking you can beat the system. When the only way for you the individual to beat the system, is to simply not play. Don't buy anything you don't need. And buy as cheap as you can that will do the job, and ignore every other part of your mind telling you anything. Dont replace anything until it breaks. That's as good as you can do to beat the system. And if everyone did it, it wouldn't work. But that's just not our nature. The influence the market has on the consumers is all because of subtle flaws on how we as animals work. Discoveries we've made about fallible the human mind is and how easily influenced we are.

Conspiracy theories THEMSELVES work as a sort of mind control. A certain kind of fantasy prone personality. Proclaiming themselves to be truth seekers when all they seek is to feel they know secrets other people don't. The crappy conspiracies and stupid ideas get forgotten, ensuring only the best ones infect the mind of the vulnerable of the population like a virus. Tricking them into thinking they're actually free thinkers by copying the beliefs of others, failing to even see the discrepancy. Only difference here is NOBODY is in control of it. It's just a belief that's spontaneously come into existence like so many other, mostly much stupider ones. But the ones that happen to work on that part of the brain that gets conspiracy theorists every time, those spread and take hold and perpetuate themselves by convincing those that believe in them to spread them to more people prone to believing them, with nobody ultimately in control of it.

Oh yes, brainwashing exists, it just doesn't look anything like what you think. So insidious and ingenious is the control that most don't even see it. it really is astounding how much we know about how to make people do whatever we want. Most people can be convinced to do ANYTHING you want. It's like picking a lock, all you need is time, opportunity, and to find the right method that will work, and viola!. Look at those perfectly ordinary mcdonalds workers who were convinced to strip search other employees. All for the sick amusement of and through the astounding effectiveness of meer words of some random man on the other end of a phone line. Eventually someone, a janitor as I recall funnily enough, happened to be one of those rare few with enough independent thinking to see how insane the situation was and do something about it.

If a random guy can convince completely normal mcdonalds managers to compel their young female employees to submit to being strip searched, all over the fucking phone, hell yeah most people are prone to mind control. We as a society have only made it worse by teaching generation after generation blind obedience to any semblance of authority, or anyone really who knows what they're doing. Most people are sheep, zombies ready to be told what to do. We've evolved this way because society won't function correctly unless we have a small percentage of leaders and a large percentage of followers, and those followers tend to submit to anything that looks like authority, and can be made to believe almost anything with the right words.

It's why first aid and emergency medical training teaches you, DO NOT say "someone call 911". Cause if you do that people will just look at each other aimlessly waiting for someone else to do it. You gotta pick a semi responsible looking person, tell THEM to call 911. Take charge of the situation because otherwise, if no one else there has been trained to deal with that situation, they'll all film it and put on YouTube like a bunch of useless morons. But you look like you know what you're doing to even the smallest degree, most people will do as you say.

You know that annoying music they play at malls and supermarkets? How they are seemingly designed to cause you stress by getting lost and annoying you? They do that because we know people are more likely to impulse buy then. How they constantly change where shit is at the supermarket? Same thing, to confuse and disorient you and expose you to more chances for impulse buying.

They do the same thing to our kids knowing the children will convince the parents through peer pressure. Gimmie a happy meal mom! Putting shit kids like at children's height right near the register so kids can take it, open it, and entrap their parents into buying it.

Don't think just cause it doesn't work on YOU that...
A. It doesn't work on you in ways you don't realize, or.
B. It doesn't work on more than enough other people for it not to matter that you're one of the few it doesn't work on, it just means you're not the intended audience.

So yea, mind control both exists and has been in daily use for a looong time if you mean well funded groups making most of the public do what they want like a puppet.

If you mean it works on EVERYONE using some secret CIA technology, no, it neither exists nor does it need too.

Casinos and fremium mobile games don't work on most people, but the amount of money they DO pull in from the people they do work on, the minority of so called whales (or high rollers if you prefer a kinder term), is incredible.

 

[JessFR]

^ for some reason people see mind control as completely controlling another person's thought and actions. I believe that a primitive version of mind control is used in medicine, in essence. Psychological treatment, treatment with anti-depressants, treatment using electrical stimuli - it's all aimed at, essentially, planting particular thoughts/memories or removing them from a person's mind by altering the brain's circuits using outside effectors.

Fair comment. Although having personally been suicidal and depressed, and having been the beneficiary of psychological and pharmacological treatment to treat it. I would argue that a better wording and more accurate than mind control would be to say that such treatments return control of your mind to the patient rather than compromise it. That the depression itself is the mind control against your will. It's just that it developed naturally.

It was the depression that controlled me, it overrode my ability to make rational decisions based on realities in my life. Sure my life sucked and in many ways continues to suck, and that feels bad, but it feeling SO bad and it feeling not worth going on was not, certainly not for me anyway, a reflection of a sound mind in my control. Antidepressants were what fortunately helped me after my suicide attempt. I've gotten off the antidepressant (Cymbalta) twice and got suicidal again both times. My mother was the same, it seems to be genetic in my mothers side of the family, especially in females after puberty until menopause, after which the suicidal ideation seems to go away even without medication. So I guess I gotta stay on them another 18 years or so...

Antidepressants don't work for everyone unfortunately, and often require a lot of dangerous and potentially painful trial and error even when they work. I wasn't tried on Cymbalta until id already gone through two antidepressants without feeling better. And it probably would have taken longer had I not repeatedly told my shink over and over that my mother experienced the same thing I did and SNRI's were the only class that had worked, and so it was worth trying me on them. Still took one suicide attempt and several months before they took my advice to try me on one and *SHOCK* it worked.

Cognitive behavior therapy, dialectical (sp) behavior therapy, antidepressants, they're all ways of using verbal stimuli and chemistry to affect the brains way of thinking. Something bad can happen to you, causing long lasting depression, and it can STILL be the case that you need antidepressants to change your neurochemistry to get you out of it. What people don't realize is it's not a straight line between chemistry, biology and environment. Environment can actually cause long lasting changes in both brain structure and chemistry, causing depression and suicidal ideation among various other problems. This is why survivors of trauma can experience long term emotional reprecussions. Your environmental experiences have long lasting effects on your brains functioning, CBT and DBT are both talk therapies that utilize this phenomenon to do the same thing in reverse. Use environment to treat depression. Likewise, antidepressants can chemically treat depression, causing you to think more clearly, which in turn itself can cause lasting neurological and neurochemical changes. There's no clear line between the biological and the environmental. They both influence each other.

But getting back on point, depression is by definition not an example of a healthy way of thinking. Which is to say your brain isn't supposed to function this way for it's long term survival and health, it does not reflect you making a rational choice, and if you can't make a rational choice, then IMO it's ethically and morally justifiable to use force to prevent someone killing themselves and forcing them to submit to treatment. I'm a believer that no one should have to live a life of suffering and pain with no hope for improvement, but depression is treatable and impairs judgement. I'm glad I was prevented by force from killing myself and having to get help, or id probably be dead and id never have had a chance to get help and see how impaired my judgement really was.

That's why I don't think it's fair to call it mind control. Unlike with advertising, which exploits the flaws in our way of thinking to trick us into doing something irrational, treating someone for depression is using perhaps sometimes similar methods to improve the patients ability to think rationally. If your life is rationally worth ending, antidepressants won't fix that. They aren't like recreational drugs which truly block out your negative feelings. Antidepressants still enable you to feel negative emotions, they just restore an upper limit that a healthy mind has towards runaway feelings of sadness. Talk therapy,when it works, does a similar thing. Only it's teaching the subject to change their thinking on their own rather than using chemistry to give them assistance. Akin to the reverse of verbal abuse causing long lasting depression.

It's a form of mind influence. But it is not controlling you in any sense that it is pushing you to do something you don't want to do or wouldn't given more sensible thought.

Mind control in advertising really does in some people create compulsions to do things they will later regret.

I think that's the real question, will you (or would you) later regret it?

As drug addicts we constantly use mind control to improve our mood and feelings, but we're the ones in control. Unlike the implications most people have with the term, and as is reflected in the case of advertising. But treating depression i would argue is an attempt to restore control of the patient over their actions rather than impair it, and there in lies the difference.

 

[jammin83]

as far as chips and implants go, im not sure anyone knows for sure if thats possible, well, some might if they do actually work and exist.

but as for the type of mind control i believe its used daily. bot like responses are indicative of programming. theres a handful of buzzwords that get people out with the pitchforks and it stifles the flow of ideas. its censorship by intimidation and the PC movement is just one such example.

hollywood has been programming people for decades now. take a look at the alien thread for starters. most are at least open to the idea, some will go as far as to tell you the parameters that they must exist within. this is the result of programming that has taken place over the last half century. going to be highly coincidental when they are proven to be real and the public is prepared for it. it would make sense to me that they would show up when we weren't 'ready'.

MSM is another useful tool. take hurricane matthew for example, they were calling for a direct hit in my town. the hysteria was through the roof. everyone was going nuts over a storm. hurricanes are never a walk in the park, but the hysteria was unrivaled.

the education system is another tool for indoctrination and programming. you ever try having a conversation with somebody that has no background or personal experience with Christianity, yet knows that you are brainwashed for believing in such things? all after a single semester of religion. theres many more from this category, but people thinking they know everything is pretty common. a wise man, knows he knows nothing.

you really can't even have conversations about certain topics before people start making meth induced posts about how little you know. you start mentioning that vaccines might be problematic, that a version of history is incorrect, or any other slew of topics and people start losing their minds without even listening to what you have to say.

most of what we are told isn't the truth. most of the historical figures presented to us were presented to us to serve an agenda. our reality is a false reality and carefully constructed so brainwashing and mind control is already in effect. not sure MK ultra ever ended tbh.

 

[swilow]

I think religions like Christianity is closer to mind control than PC movement. It tries to control thoughts by describing certain thoughts like lust and envy as sins with eternal punishment.

 

[iridescentblack]

I've used mind control in lucid dreams before, particularly the vampire's power "compulsion". Tried it in real life too, but could never quite master it because the human ego mixed with a terrible attention span...

...hmm... I'm rambling on.

And I think everyones brain would probably enact things in slightly different ways, making mind-control possibly harder.

This, in a sense (unless I'm misunderstanding) was my roadblock.

The whole ideal of mind control is to eliminate the mind's defense mechanisms until it is pliable and completely open to suggestion and re-programming. Humans have been able to do that in general ways since the 1950's. Who knows how specific it has become by now.

This is, essentially, the double-edged sword of compulsion. Kind of like a catch twenty-two. You have to calm the victim at the same time you are trying to succeed in capturing them. I suppose there's also a type of mind control that involves scaring the victim rather than calming her. This would be interesting to research... Now where did I put my thaumaturgicum-nosferatus?

 

[Foreigner]

I suppose there's also a type of mind control that involves scaring the victim rather than calming her.

To my knowledge, this is the main way that governments employ mind control on people. They use various methods to make them break. Once a person breaks, one of two things happen. They either dissociate from the experience, rendering their mind completely open to suggestion (this is how hypnosis works as well), or they dissolve into a puddle of mush and never regain their humanity. The latter group becomes rather animal, from what I've read. There is a very tiny third group who does neither, but I don't know much about their type.

What I'm talking about is based on declassified information, and standard torture techniques. The declassified stuff is about 60 years old. Who knows what they can do now. The U.S. military budget is half a trillion dollars annually, and that's not including obscure funds like the $50 billion or so that went missing under George W. Bush. They can probably do things beyond our imagination.

I'm talking about direct mind control for espionage and intelligence gathering. There's the subliminal kind which of course our entire society is subjected to daily all over the place.

 

[belligerent drunk]

Although having personally been suicidal and depressed, and having been the beneficiary of psychological and pharmacological treatment to treat it. I would argue that a better wording and more accurate than mind control would be to say that such treatments return control of your mind to the patient rather than compromise it. That the depression itself is the mind control against your will. It's just that it developed naturally.

It was the depression that controlled me...

I think we're still talking about different definitions for mind control. The most popular definition for mind control is using outside influences to change thought patterns of the person to the benefit of third parties. I argue for a simpler definition: remove the last part about third parties and forget about benefits; mind control, if taken literally, means controlling a person's mind, which includes thoughts and memories.

A more robust definition would be to say that mind control is a method which allows to perform brain operations (such as thought, formation of memory, removal of memory etc) that the person, without any "unnatural" outside factors, couldn't perform otherwise. For example, you forgetting that you'd read this post. Much as you try, you can't really erase memories like that at will. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depends on how you look at it) we can't know what a person is capable of thinking and so on.

So I would argue that your depressed state is/was your natural state, regardless of whether you liked being in that state or not. Psychological and pharmacological treatment helped you treat it, which meant decreasing the thought patterns that brought about the feelings of depression. So, the treatment controlled your thoughts (and feelings, which are a form of involuntary thought IMO).

I agree, though, that the human brain is very complex. Another form of mind control that many mentioned in this thread is indeed electromagnetical radiation of the visible part of the spectrum (aka stuff you see), and sound waves (aka stuff you hear). Particular patterns of one or both are perhaps the most successful form of mind control that people use for their benefit at the cost of the affected individual (aka commercials, ads). However, the reason it works very well is because the mechanism with which it affects the brain is somewhat different from what I can tell. Visible light and sound don't directly alter the chemistry of the brain, but they go through the sensors that humans have, and only then is the signal interpreted by the brain; in essence, the brain fools itself by taking otherwise harmless and meaningless input and concluding that it must go and buy that ultracool new T-shirt or whatever. Psychoactive drugs and things like electroconvulsive therapy etc bypass the sensors and affect the brain chemistry directly. Which is why they're trickier to use.

E: for some reason it seems to be hard to accept that mind control can be benign, the notion is that it must definitely be for someone's benefit or whatever. Think about this analogy: controlling a car, as a driver. Driving isn't defined only as the case where you do it for your own benefit (driving to work etc), although most people use it for that. But if you take your car and start driving up and down the street for no reason, will it not count as controlling your car, although it doesn't benefit anybody?

 

[swilow]

Yeah but cars don't have minds. They generally aren't autonomous. A car NOT being controlled is an inert object without the capacity for volition.

Mind control is different to simply influencing another mind. But mind control techniques that are inflicted upon an unwitting party is unethical. We know advertising is trying to influence us, but things like subliminal advertising is largely prohibited because our minds are not really aware that we are being advertised to.

 

[2minuteSnoots]

We don't understand anything halfway close enough about our brains to make a full on mind control possible, theoretically it wouldn't be hard to do, but it's not feasible yet.

Subliminal messaging/ implanting ideas are as real as it gets, everyone on here made that dry and clear. I try implanting ideas on people all the time, it's super easy and fun to do.
For example: I love getting chilli dogs from this little shop down the road called Marshall's. My son is a huge fan of the cartoon 'Paw Patrol' which has character name Marshall. So all day long I would randomly bring turn it to the show for him when my wife was around, I would make remarks about Marshall so she could overhear. I randomly mentioned my uncle(he's the local fire chief) in mine and her conversation. Her and my son laid down to nap so I put on 101 Dalmatians, my boy
must have said " hey he looks like Marshall!" A thousand times. I never really said the word Marshall that much throughout the idea, just things or images that could be related to the word. And when supper rolled around wife hit me with it, "hey babe, wanna go grab us some Marshall's?" Ka-Ching.

Mind control/subliminal messaging/ implanting. It's all just contacting someone's subconscious, your basic conscious picks will spot the clues and actions against it

 

[jammin83]

I think religions like Christianity is closer to mind control than PC movement. It tries to control thoughts by describing certain thoughts like lust and envy as sins with eternal punishment.

I get where you are coming from and i don't think you are alone on this one lol. I think the opposite. True christianity is anti-programming IMO. I don't think its unreasonable to ask that you not view others as sexual objects and view them as your sisters and brothers. and envy, thats kind of what got us into this whole mess with lucifer, wanting to be god, etc. i have similar struggles and similar problems with certain aspects of the faith as you, and lust is something i struggle with. im pretty highly sexed now that im off the psych drugs. but i think its a kind of primitive urge that should be managed and suppressed and I find pornography particularly degrading now. i think most sins harm us as people and defile us, so its for our own benefit that we obey. anyhow, going a bit OT.

music is another fairly effective brain washing technique. we know that music impacts plant growth, it seems reasonable to me, that music would impact humans as well in various ways. At one of my jobs, the other guys are always playing rap, gangster stuff (mostly white boys that live on the beach lel) and im generally nauseous by the end of my shift. I used to get into eminem and stuff like that, but i just don't have the stomach for it anymore. its pretty degrading and i find it a pretty negative experience, same with most forms of music. If you were to be trapped in a room for years at a time only listening to rap, i think it would have a pretty significant impact on the way you view the world. music, iMO, is another form of programming and you can spot the various themes and subliminal messages in pop music if you are paying close enough attention. losing your mind, going crazy, losing control, are all pretty popular themes right now but there are many (something i picked up on my own btw). a similar idea could be applied to video games. if you keep a kid holed up for days at time playing grand theft auto, hes going to be a little messed up. ive witnessed this first hand.

I think as a society, we are identifying with more and more with twisted and sick individuals. some we view on tv, some we listen to in pop music, some we read about. theres kind of a theme of 'telling it like it is' that is revered. I was watching the second season of mr robot, and had to stop watching. there was this scene about f god that most folks these days would identify with. you can view the video on youtube and take a look at the comments section to see what im talking about. I really can't listen to much music anymore, can't watch most tv anymore, and witness the brain-washing thats going on from the news whenever i have the stomach for it. the news is constantly pointing the finger at low level criminals telling you who the 'bad guys' are that keeps the attention off the real criminals.

facebook has really become another propaganda machine that also creates a fictitious reality, that lets users portray their lives in the light that they wish to be seen in. kind of ties in to the idea of 'creating your own reality' which is based on individualism and subjective relativism. by breaking down the nuclear family and promoting individualism in a society, people have become easier to control. there are many ways in which this is accomplished but various agendas and specifically the drug war and criminal justice system have both played their parts. people have generally become complacent and easily manipulated. turn the screens off if you can and listen to beethoven would be my advice.


a quote from alleged 'athiest' bertrand russel:

"Physiology and psychology afford fields for scientific technique which still await development. Two great men, Pavlov and Freud, have laid the foundation. I do not accept the view that they are in any essential conflict, but what structure will be built on their foundations is still in doubt. I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is mass psychology.... Its importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda. Of these the most influential is what is called "education." Religion plays a part, though a diminishing one; the press, the cinema, and the radio play an increasing part.... It may be hoped that in time anybody will be able to persuade anybody of anything if he can catch the patient young and is provided by the State with money and equipment.''

Russell continued, ``The subject will make great strides when it is taken up by scientists under a scientific dictatorship....The social psychologists of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. Various results will soon be arrived at. First, that the influence of home is obstructive. Second, that not much can be done unless indoctrination begins before the age of ten. Third, that verses set to music and repeatedly intoned are very effective. Fourth, that the opinion that snow is white must be held to show a morbid taste for eccentricity. But I anticipate. It is for future scientists to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black, and how much less it would cost to make them believe it is dark gray.''


Russell concluded with a warning: ``Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for a generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen.''

There are many well written articles on the subject but his ideas seemed to have gained some popularity among the elite me thinks.

a more direct form of mind control is largely based on traumatizing the victim. monarch mind control is a continuation of mk ultra but there has been no official admittance to the program by the government but there is evidence of its existence and testimonies from survivors. there are many references to this in pop music. it incorporates elements of satanic ritual abuse, and also MPD. shockingly enough, many of these methods have origins in the egyptian book of the dead. it involves creating trauma through torture, utilizes various occult rituals, involves sorcery, and using potions and casting spells and results in total control. the CIA turned it into more of a science. sex kittens, manchurian candidates, and those types of things are references to monarch mind control. I think various techniques from this research are applied to the masses.

 

[swilow]

I get where you are coming from and i don't think you are alone on this one lol. I think the opposite. True christianity is anti-programming IMO.

But Christianity seeks to actively control peoples moral values by describing those who don't follow them as sinners with particular consequences. The whole system creates duress under which people may feel obligated to follow certain principles for fear of eternal punishment or something. That is something I think of as mind control, or the attempt thereof. I don't think its very effective because its trying to control things that have stronger biological structures than things like morality.

I should add that, for the most part, the ideas being imposed by Christianity are good ideas, such as caring for others and protecting those weaker than you, so I'm not really criticising the religion again.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask that you not view others as sexual objects and view them as your sisters and brothers. and envy, thats kind of what got us into this whole mess with lucifer, wanting to be god, etc. i have similar struggles and similar problems with certain aspects of the faith as you, and lust is something i struggle with. im pretty highly sexed now that im off the psych drugs. but i think its a kind of primitive urge that should be managed and suppressed and I find pornography particularly degrading now. i think most sins harm us as people and defile us, so its for our own benefit that we obey. anyhow, going a bit OT.

Bit off-topic, yes, but I find porn a bit degrading but in general have little problem with it. I am pretty highly sexed too and have really enjoyed exploring the different 'varieties' of sex you can have and I think the idea of degradation is subjective. In the context of consenting adults who love each other, I've had heaps of possibly degrading sex and found it awesome :D You can still be compassionate and caring for people you find sexually attractive but objectifying can certainly be harmful.

I wonder if a thread on the ethics of porn could be of interest.

music is another fairly effective brain washing technique. we know that music impacts plant growth, it seems reasonable to me, that music would impact humans as well in various ways. At one of my jobs, the other guys are always playing rap, gangster stuff (mostly white boys that live on the beach lel) and im generally nauseous by the end of my shift. I used to get into eminem and stuff like that, but i just don't have the stomach for it anymore. its pretty degrading and i find it a pretty negative experience, same with most forms of music. If you were to be trapped in a room for years at a time only listening to rap, i think it would have a pretty significant impact on the way you view the world. music, iMO, is another form of programming and you can spot the various themes and subliminal messages in pop music if you are paying close enough attention. losing your mind, going crazy, losing control, are all pretty popular themes right now but there are many (something i picked up on my own btw). a similar idea could be applied to video games. if you keep a kid holed up for days at time playing grand theft auto, hes going to be a little messed up. ive witnessed this first hand.

This is true, though I imagine mind control to be more directed and purposeful, rather than aiming at simply fucking a head up.

I listen to a lot of metal, with a keen interest in black metal and doom. In a way, black metal could be seen as one of the more negative and hate filled music genres around and I've been listening for almost 20 years, and I'm totally not hate filled or cruel or a satanist. Music can influence and inspire but I still think ultimate control is up to ourselves.

I fucking hate advertising in all contexts as I feel manipulated by it. I dunno about you guys, but in Australia we have a lot of 'free-to-air' TV stations and they pretty much all run ads every 5-10 minutes. It seriously enrages me. I realised that the entire point of the artistic medium of television was a way to get us watching advertisements. Its insane. And jammin, I agree about facebook. I don't use it and haven't for 3-4 years. Its a load of shit and I mistrust it deeply. It just seems like a perfect way for a huge company to acquire all your personal details to profit from; I almost can't comprehend how blase people are about using it- my girlfriend uses it daily and thinks its harmless. I don't.

I think you can resist the influence of advertising and social rpessure though. In fact, many on Bluelight do this and its probably why we are here. I truly believe that its up to ourselves to control our minds, not god or google or newscorp. I think we really have the capacity to make our own choices. Its natural to follow social trends and pressures, I think most of us wear underpants though its difficult to say why exactly, but I think we should be really cautious about adopting mainstream social values. Whilst I certainly agree with ideas of racials/sexual/gender equality and dislike bigotry, I don't consider myself PC or whatever because I try and form my own idea's. Its hard but I enjoy trying.

 

[belligerent drunk]

Yeah but cars don't have minds. They generally aren't autonomous. A car NOT being controlled is an inert object without the capacity for volition.

It's trivial to show how the two are analogous. In an "uninfluenced" state, a car is an inert object, consisting of many parts that form a system which seems to be stable - that is its natural state. With a little outside influence, you can deviate it from its natural state, and if you do it right, it will result in motion. Similarly, you can describe a natural state for a person as well; the fact that they move about and have "thoughts" flowing through their head doesn't automatically mean that they fundamentally differ from a car. You're making an assumption that a person has a mind/whatever that is based on more than the composition of their brain or body in general. If you don't make that assumption, then the two are analogous.

Anyway, that wasn't even the point. The point was that mind control for some reason is defined as a very narrow phenomenon...

Mind control is different to simply influencing another mind.

What's the difference then? And why is there such a difference?