Women. Religion’s longest running victims.

[RichardMooner]

The Christian religion is based on human sacrifice and adherents trying to profit from a fool of a God who has his son needlessly murdered instead of just forgiving sinners outright like any loving father would do.

Any person who does not see the bible God as immoral does not know morals.

Regards
DL

If morals are defined as distinctions between right and wrong, and there is no objective right or wrong, Christians are not actually immoral.

 

[RichardMooner]

You're right i was mistaken about the author of revelations and acts..

And the century may have been exaggerated.. but it was written JUST before 70AD or after.. Jesus "see's" the destruction of the area saying something along the lines of he feels sorry for any pregnant women.. seemingly "prophesying that the destruction was imminent.

Have you read War of The Jews by Josephus Flavius?

And apologies.. but my brain is not what it used to be.. some information gets a bit jumbled in my head..

Regarding the works of Paul.. why does it seem he talks of Jesus as a metaphorical being? He doesn't seem to think Jesus was a man.. let a lone a man that was on earth a decade or two before his letters / gospels.

Paul speaks very clearly of Jesus as a man in Philippians Chapter 2:5-8.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

If morals are defined as distinctions between right and wrong, and there is no objective right or wrong, Christians are not actually immoral.

If you think human sacrifice is something that you should profit from, as Christians do, then you are not a moral person and Christianity is based on just that.

So says scriptures and common sense.

I have something I am working on. Have a look at both the link and the quotes.

Is self-deprecation an insult to God, --- who can only createperfection?

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1RuyPAIwK8

The reason most do not recognize the perfection of allthings is that they have bought into the idea that Jesus dies for their retchedsouls that even in their perfection, cannot get themselves into heaven withoutmaking God a despicable child abuser.

God’s best works, --- mankind, --- seems to not recognizethat it is perfect. Growing up is simply moving ones initial perfection to amore perfect state. A strange use of language, but if you are an American, youshould have no problem as it is the language of your constitution.

Either Christians ignore that God creates all thingsperfect, or the bible lies. In scriptures, perfection never loses it’sperfection. If it did, God himself might be in jeopardy. It shows thatperfection being passed down the generations.

Many Christians self–deprecate. They name themselves worthless,fallen, retched, not deserving of self-respect etc.
Meanwhile the bible shows God even angry with angels thatwill not bow down to man. God seems to think we are hot stuff so why doChristians not believe it. Why believe the idiocy that we are born in sin andthat God has to have his own son murdered to save us from himself.

The moral of the crucifixion is selflessness. Not salvationfor perfect souls that God would not and could not condemn. God is ineverything and he, like us, is evolving perfection. God would not condemn apart of himself.

God is in and is everything. If you cannot see God in all,then you cannot see God at all. Harbhajan Singh Yogi

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is inheaven is perfect.

Jesus was not sent to die for you as you were nevercondemned. He was sent, by himself, so to speak, to recruit you and make youhis brethren. His concern was to make you the best human he could. He knew thatyour soul would find it’s way to heaven on it’s own. God had taken care of thatalready.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, assome men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that anyshould perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Jesus would never condone substitutionary atonement. It isequivalent to human sacrifice and Jesus would never teach such an immoralpractice. Only those of little faith would think that God would create us forless than the best possible end and that would include Jesus and everything hedid and that would not include an immoral blemish like his teaching us thatthere is anything good in substitutionary atonement and human sacrifice.

Here Jesus tells you how you should think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Here is a way to get to the right thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Regards
DL

 

[Ninae]

I've had many lifetimes on Earth, and in many of them I've worked as some form of priestess, especially at the time of Atlantis where I think I was exclusively doing spiritual work.

At the end of Atlantis I was working trying to manifest positive energy so it wouldn't tip over, or all go wrong, but eventually the positive energy we who were working for the light were able to manifest became far too little compared to all the dark energy and it all fell apart.

I was working in this temple, and there was also some great male black magicians there doing all these horrible things, but they didn't see me as any threat so they let me be among them.

At that time I think women were as spiritually powerful, or had as high status as men. There were just this division into the "White Brothehood", "The Black Brotherhood", and eventually even a "Gray Brotherhood" (who tried to take the middle path). There is much to learn from Atlantis.

I think the ultimate fall came about by abusing the great crystal that empowered all of Atlantis. Crystal energy is the purest energy. But we've been afraid to use it ever since (it might have been used some in Egypt, or the great crystal of Atlantis is rumoured to have been taken there, and kept inside the great pyramid).

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

"I've had many lifetimes on Earth,"

Quite hard to take your words seriously when beginning from delusion.

Regards
DL

 

[Tromps]

So truly, nothing is actually right or wrong? If morals are subjective, then nothing is truly right, or wrong, correct? Well, that sums it up it for me. Even if I was Christian, I wouldn't be immoral because morality is only defined by what I believe, and if I do not believe that I am immoral, then I am not.

Exactly. If morals are subjective then If I say GB is immoral it's true, if he say's I'm immoral it's true, and if I say I'm not it's true, but if he says he's not it's still true. Makes sense.

Except that a morality standard is a community decision and not an individual one. The individual makes his decisions with others in mind. That is why it is subjective and not objective.

The moral standard is a community decision? Well then, since the community of America is majorly Christian, only Christians meet the moral standard, and everyone else is immoral? Whereas in a country such as, lets say Afghanistan, where the community decision is Islam, only a Muslim is moral, and anyone else living there isn't?

What kind of logic is that?

It goes back to Richards post then that you can't really say anyone is moral or immoral. It just depends what you believe.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Exactly. If morals are subjective then If I say GB is immoral it's true, if he say's I'm immoral it's true, and if I say I'm not it's true, but if he says he's not it's still true. Makes sense.



The moral standard is a community decision? Well then, since the community of America is majorly Christian, only Christians meet the moral standard, and everyone else is immoral? Whereas in a country such as, lets say Afghanistan, where the community decision is Islam, only a Muslim is moral, and anyone else living there isn't?

What kind of logic is that?

It goes back to Richards post then that you can't really say anyone is moral or immoral. It just depends what you believe.

Not really. It depends on the situation or issue at hand.

Care opine on general morals and we can get specific later?

Should our highest moral tenet be self-centered or centered on others?

I think it should be centred on others.
Outwardly focused you might say, instead of focusing on myself.

What say you?

Regards
DL

 

[rickolasnice]

Exactly. If morals are subjective then If I say GB is immoral it's true, if he say's I'm immoral it's true, and if I say I'm not it's true, but if he says he's not it's still true. Makes sense.



The moral standard is a community decision? Well then, since the community of America is majorly Christian, only Christians meet the moral standard, and everyone else is immoral? Whereas in a country such as, lets say Afghanistan, where the community decision is Islam, only a Muslim is moral, and anyone else living there isn't?

What kind of logic is that?

It goes back to Richards post then that you can't really say anyone is moral or immoral. It just depends what you believe.

I think you're confused, Tromps.

Christianity is not a defined moral standing point. Christians believe and behave in all sorts of different ways.. That's like saying most people in America are Caucasian so only Caucasian people are moral..

I like the saying "Do unto others as you would have them done unto you" as well as "live and let live".. Meaning, do as you wish, but do not impede or violate someone else's right's and freedoms in doing so.

Many sects of Muslims (and Christian) impede women's, homosexuals and atheists right's and freedoms (to name a few). Can you think of an Atheist movement that does the same (And I mean in the name of atheism, NOT something that was committed by someone who happened to be atheist)

Question: Is it immoral to impede another persons right's and freedoms? (Incarceration for doing so not included, as you could argue that by not incarcerating them you are impeding innocents rights)

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I think you're confused, Tromps.

Christianity is not a defined moral standing point. Christians believe and behave in all sorts of different ways.. That's like saying most people in America are Caucasian so only Caucasian people are moral..

I like the saying "Do unto others as you would have them done unto you" as well as "live and let live".. Meaning, do as you wish, but do not impede or violate someone else's right's and freedoms in doing so.

Many sects of Muslims (and Christian) impede women's, homosexuals and atheists right's and freedoms (to name a few). Can you think of an Atheist movement that does the same (And I mean in the name of atheism, NOT something that was committed by someone who happened to be atheist)

Question: Is it immoral to impede another persons right's and freedoms? (Incarceration for doing so not included, as you could argue that by not incarcerating them you are impeding innocents rights)

This was not to me but if I may.

I Think your question is answered with reciprocity is fair play, which is close to your do unto others.

It is our duty to give others whatever rights or freedoms we allow ourselves.

Regards
DL

 

[RichardMooner]

I think you're confused, Tromps.

Christianity is not a defined moral standing point. Christians believe and behave in all sorts of different ways.. That's like saying most people in America are Caucasian so only Caucasian people are moral..

I like the saying "Do unto others as you would have them done unto you" as well as "live and let live".. Meaning, do as you wish, but do not impede or violate someone else's right's and freedoms in doing so.

Many sects of Muslims (and Christian) impede women's, homosexuals and atheists right's and freedoms (to name a few). Can you think of an Atheist movement that does the same (And I mean in the name of atheism, NOT something that was committed by someone who happened to be atheist)

Question: Is it immoral to impede another persons right's and freedoms? (Incarceration for doing so not included, as you could argue that by not incarcerating them you are impeding innocents rights)

In the name of the betterment of Russia, Lenin and Stalin made religious practices illicit and punishable by death, or life in prison because "Religion is the opiate of the masses.".

 

[Tromps]

Care opine on general morals and we can get specific later?

Should our highest moral tenet be self-centered or centered on others?

I think it should be centred on others.
Outwardly focused you might say, instead of focusing on myself.

What say you?

Regards
DL

I agree, we should be outwardly focused on others. It is a consistent theme you will find in the New Testament.

http://www.openbible.info/topics/how_to_treat_others

What about general morals would you like to discuss?

I think you're confused, Tromps.

Christianity is not a defined moral standing point. Christians believe and behave in all sorts of different ways.. That's like saying most people in America are Caucasian so only Caucasian people are moral..

I like the saying "Do unto others as you would have them done unto you" as well as "live and let live".. Meaning, do as you wish, but do not impede or violate someone else's right's and freedoms in doing so.

Many sects of Muslims (and Christian) impede women's, homosexuals and atheists right's and freedoms (to name a few). Can you think of an Atheist movement that does the same (And I mean in the name of atheism, NOT something that was committed by someone who happened to be atheist)

Question: Is it immoral to impede another persons right's and freedoms? (Incarceration for doing so not included, as you could argue that by not incarcerating them you are impeding innocents rights)

However, Christianity is a choice and it's a belief system with a moral standard attached, being a certain race isn't. You don't choose your race, nor is race a a belief system.

Back to GB saying morality is a community decision, we could take politics as another example. Do the politicians we elect as a community decide what is moral and what isn't by the laws that they pass? If recreational use of weed is legal in some states, does that make it only moral there? And if it's illegal in another state it's immoral to use it in that state? Or marriage, in some states gay marriage is banned, does that mean it's moral? While some states gay marriage is legal, is it then moral? Some states allow cousins to marry, while in other states it's banned, what defines morality? Saying the community decision defines morality doesn't work, the few examples I gave shows why. If I'm missing something please point it out to help me understand, I'm all ears.

As for atheist movements that impede the rights and freedoms of others, I can think of a few modern groups that sue religious organizations for not covering contraceptives in their health plans, or sue them for not performing same-sex marriages.

 

[Ninae]

In my opinion, you can't say anything definite about any religion, like Christianity, because it depends so much on the people involved, their level of consciousness and connection to God/Jesus, etc.

For instance, most Christian Ministers don't impress me. They've just chosen to study theology and now can make a living out of that. Hey, the priest who came to see me at the rehab center couldn't understand a fraction of what I do, and was interested in learning more from me.

But there are still SOME out there. Like my family priest who's now the county priest, and the most popolar in the region. Kids belonging to other areas seek to transfer over here just to be taught by him (I get it because I was taught by him myself and everyone loved him). When my grandmother called about my grandfather's funeral they said, "Well, I guess you want (.....) you too", and she said, "Well, I certainly don't want anyone else".

So for all I might have to criticise about Christianity I have to admit he's someone exceptional. In normal life he comes across kind of geeky, or someone that people laugh of, although he's extremely friendly and understanding. But when he gets up before a congregation to speak (I've only seen it a few times but it made a real impression) he exudes so much authority and charisma, you can feel he has the spirit of Christ within him, and no one would dare to laugh of him then.

He even took the time to talk to me for 1,5 hours when I was in rehab (I asked for him instead) and when he prayed for me and held his hands over my head to bless me I could feel that warmth/electricity that characterises healing energy. So because of people like him I don't find conventional Christianity to be completely worthless. The doctrine itself might be wrong in some ways, but many highly spiritual beings might be attracted to it and have much to teach us.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I agree, we should be outwardly focused on others.
.

I agree.

Your bible also tell you to emulate God and follow all his ways.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

That fits well with as above so below, as Gods laws and ways are what we are to adapt to. Do you agree?

If so, as God's first few commandments of self-centered, are you not going against emulating or going against God?

You have agreed that the best moral position is to center on others and not ourselves.

Your God does the opposite.

Either he is wrong or you are.

Who is right? You who would do what I think is the right thing and think of others, or your self-centered God?

Regards
DL

 

[Tromps]

Jesus says the greatest commandments are to love God and love each other as oneself. If you're talking about the ten commandments the majority of them are focused on your conduct toward others (honor your parents, don't murder, don't steal, don't cheat on you spouse, don't bear false witness (lie). I don't see how that is self-centered.

My God is the God of restoration. When you love God you open yourself up to his blessings. How can you receive from someone when your arms are closed? He freely gives; love, joy, peace. He offers eternal life. He takes away; pain, sorrow, burdens. God doesn't need me. I need God, to keep me from myself, because myself gets me in trouble.

Jesus said he came to serve and not be served. God gives life. You may see him as self-centered, but I don't.

 

[VitamaN]

I do hate me some religion. mer

 

[Ninae]

I feel amazed that some can't accept Jesus as an embodiment of divinity, when that was what he was all about, and the most famous example of it.

So what do people need? A kick in the head?

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Jesus says the greatest commandments are to love God and love each other as oneself. If you're talking about the ten commandments the majority of them are focused on your conduct toward others (honor your parents, don't murder, don't steal, don't cheat on you spouse, don't bear false witness (lie). I don't see how that is self-centered.

My God is the God of restoration. When you love God you open yourself up to his blessings. How can you receive from someone when your arms are closed? He freely gives; love, joy, peace. He offers eternal life. He takes away; pain, sorrow, burdens. God doesn't need me. I need God, to keep me from myself, because myself gets me in trouble.

Jesus said he came to serve and not be served. God gives life. You may see him as self-centered, but I don't.

The fact that you did not answer my last post and deflected with your short list of commandments that ignores the ones on topic says that you are a hypocritical liar who became uncomfortable when out thought and forced to confront the truth.

Yours was a perfect ending for my side. Thanks much.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I feel amazed that some can't accept Jesus as an embodiment of divinity, when that was what he was all about, and the most famous example of it.

So what do people need? A kick in the head?

A divinity does not teach that justice accepts the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty as any kind of good justice.

If you believe in the Trinity concept then that immoral lesson is what Jesus was teaching us. Strange that someone with all your lives has not reached that simple moral conclusion.

Regards
DL

 

[Tromps]

The fact that you did not answer my last post and deflected with your short list of commandments that ignores the ones on topic says that you are a hypocritical liar who became uncomfortable when out thought and forced to confront the truth.

Yours was a perfect ending for my side. Thanks much.

Regards
DL

I'm not uncomfortable at all. I gave up putting deep thought and long responses to your posts some time ago. No need to waste my energy. You can't be reasoned with.

 

[rickolasnice]

I agree, we should be outwardly focused on others. It is a consistent theme you will find in the New Testament.

http://www.openbible.info/topics/how_to_treat_others

What about general morals would you like to discuss?



However, Christianity is a choice and it's a belief system with a moral standard attached, being a certain race isn't. You don't choose your race, nor is race a a belief system.

Back to GB saying morality is a community decision, we could take politics as another example. Do the politicians we elect as a community decide what is moral and what isn't by the laws that they pass? If recreational use of weed is legal in some states, does that make it only moral there? And if it's illegal in another state it's immoral to use it in that state? Or marriage, in some states gay marriage is banned, does that mean it's moral? While some states gay marriage is legal, is it then moral? Some states allow cousins to marry, while in other states it's banned, what defines morality? Saying the community decision defines morality doesn't work, the few examples I gave shows why. If I'm missing something please point it out to help me understand, I'm all ears.

As for atheist movements that impede the rights and freedoms of others, I can think of a few modern groups that sue religious organizations for not covering contraceptives in their health plans, or sue them for not performing same-sex marriages.

Those things impede the right's of others. Medicine should not be associated with religion.

Jesus points out that the only sin homosexuals commit is that of fornication, ie, sex outside of marriage.. Soooo.. let em marry.

Christianity doesn't have a set moral standard.. There are many different sects with just as many if more interpretations and even more variations of moral beliefs.

Drug laws are immoral as they impede the rights of others. It's a victimless crime which creates victims by law.

I'm pretty much retracting my statement that morality can be reached using a consensus..

Although, technically, it does.

I'll answer the part about politicians when i get back from work.