Withdrawals are coming, I'm afraid. Advice Please!

[neversickanymore]

@Asparagus_Prince

You have a situation going on with your psychological addiction and will have to work through all that at some point.. favorite straws etc is part of an addiction ritual as it’s a damn straw.. not making fun of you as I get it Just consider looking into ways to treat an addiction.

As far as physical.. it’s almost a no brainer. Go jog or treadmill for ten min or stationary bike for twenty min. Add L tyrosine or phenylalanine on top of the exercise for better results Your like a half an hour and a nap away from feeling great if this is being caused by the addy I mean your still using and good lord it’s addy. I also strongly don’t think it’s the cause of symptoms. I think it may successfully temporarily treat them, but when it wares off your may be thinking underlying symptoms are withdrawal.

If your experiencing significant physical symptoms including fatigue, aches and pains even while still taking the medication and it’s a drug that really doesn’t have any physical withdrawals.. and your finding relief from gabapentin.

I also suspect you have something else entirely going on.

Look at chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome etc as they often coexist and likely are just symptoms of one condition.

How long did you use opiates for?

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Please don't go....even after you feel better.

Oh, I'm not necessarily talking about leaving the board altogether I just meant this thread itself. I don't want people to think I keep bumping it just because I want to talk about myself.

Actually, right next to me on my desk here I have a list of 9 different topics/questions I'd like to ask on this board eventually. Not all at once, though. That would be spamming... lol.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

but when it wares off your may be thinking underlying symptoms are withdrawal.

Yeah I haven't ruled that out.

But I've had some "scary" exhaustion in the early days following an Adderall binge too often. Already just a few days ago I had some disorientation and nod-off moments that I could not control.

If your experiencing significant physical symptoms including fatigue, aches and pains even while still taking the medication and it’s a drug that really doesn’t have any physical withdrawals.. and your finding relief from gabapentin.

I also suspect you have something else entirely going on.

Oh, I definitely do. I have all kinds of chronic pain... vertebrae birth defects, degenerative stuff, nerve pain, etc etc. I've been dealing with that for years and years, long before I was ever prescribed Adderall. I've never exactly known what fibromyalgia is but I probably have that too. You'd think opiates would be a problem or my DOC but they just never have. I have popped them and misused them on occasion, but very occasionally and never anymore than 2 days in a row. I think the damage I've seen from opiates has perhaps instilled caution in me. Plus, I don't have any emotional problems/trauma, etc... I don't ever feel the need to be numb or escape from reality. I'd argue opiates are used for that kind of pain as much if not more than physical pain.

I'm on an anti-depressant for pain, and it definitely takes the edge off. On my really bad days a Gabapentin or two and/or a couple drinks and/or THC may be in order. But a one-month script of Gabapentin lasts me 3-6 months no problem. Every once in a blue moon I'll pop 2 or 3 not because I'm in pain but just because I feel like it.

How long did you use opiates for?

I've always been prescribed controlled-substance opiates circumstantially and occasionally, when I'm really hurting. But not consistently. I pop them for fun every once in a while when I have them. But it really is occasional. I have no idea what opiate dependence or withdrawal is like.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Oh, I'm not necessarily talking about leaving the board altogether I just meant this thread itself. I don't want people to think I keep bumping it just because I want to talk about myself.

Actually, right next to me on my desk here I have a list of 9 different topics/questions I'd like to ask on this board eventually. Not all at once, though. That would be spamming... lol.

You can talk about yourself all you like and people here will listen. Really looking forward to your future questions. I know you will get responses to all of them.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

I am now at Day 12 of my Adderall break/slowdown.

Day 1- wasn't too bad, but the exhaustion started at the end of the day.

Day 2- felt awful, and I don't think I've even gone into the details on here about it yet.

Day 3- was bad for the first half of the day, but then I took 600mg Gabapentin. I was afraid this would make me even more exhausted and low-functioning, but on the contrary. I was very encouraged.

Day 4- Took 600mg Gabapentin in the morning and another 600mg in the mid afternoon. I was very encouraged. Still tired, but not out-of-control disoriented tired.

Day 5- I took my first of three 15 mg Adderall. I didn't think I would notice it much since before I was taking close to 100mg per day. But I did notice it and was encouraged. I was tempted to snort some when it started wearing off but I didn't.

Day 6- I took my second of 3 Adderall. That wasn't really my plan, but I really needed to be sharp this day. The urge to snort later wasn't as strong as the day before.

Day 7- I didn't take anything, thinking the Adderall from the two days before would still be in my system and helping ever-so-slightly. I was very tired, but it was nothing like Day 2.

Days 8-9 Took 600 mg Gabapentin in the morning and another 600mg in the mid afternoon. Worked wonders. I did have a nap in there but I wasn't sleeping 18 out of 24 hours like I was back in November

Day 10 Took my final 15 mg Adderall. So in summary I took it on Days 5, 6, and 10. Got fairly drunk with my cousin that night.

Day 11 First day without Adderall. Returned to 600mg Gabapentin 2X per day.

Day 12 So far today I've had 600mg Gabapentin. Thinking about only taking one 300mg later instead of 600Mg.

This break/detox has been so much better than my previous two. I was worried about not being able to function on important work days but that has been fine. I've been scared to go without Gabapentin for fear that I will lose my functioning, fall asleep at the wheel, whatever. I'm looking forward to my next "off day" where I can go without anything and afford to be low-functioning. That will be Day 14. I will be interested to see how I feel without anything that day. I know during previous withdrawals the exhaustion carried on well past Day 20.

Other things I've been doing differently- Eating better, drinking more water. Not using additional caffeine at all (just my usual 1-2 morning cups). Slightly more active than during previous detoxes but not as much as I should. One thing that hasn't changed is chewing nicotine gum. I've been chewing it for a few months now, and more so on non-Adderall days.

With the Gabapentin does it sound like I'm "replacing" one addiction with another? I'd like to think I am simply using Gabapentin to get through this. I typically don't take it in these amounts, but I also know I've never had a problem with abusing it or misusing it before.

 

[cdin]

hey @Asparagus_Prince - just wanted to note. My original response to your post was glib, and devalued your experience and difficulty. I apologize for that, it was not a proper way to handle it, even if some of the stuff i had to say was valid. So, sorry about that and I'm glad that your getting a handle on things. IME 1200mg gabapentin in the short term is not that bad, provided you titrate off of it pretty quickly or else it becomes an irritating addiction as well.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

hey @Asparagus_Prince - just wanted to note. My original response to your post was glib, and devalued your experience and difficulty. I apologize for that, it was not a proper way to handle it, even if some of the stuff i had to say was valid. So, sorry about that and I'm glad that your getting a handle on things. IME 1200mg gabapentin in the short term is not that bad, provided you titrate off of it pretty quickly or else it becomes an irritating addiction as well.

Hey,

THANKS although I must admit I cannot remember what you're referring to.

I've been doing SO much better. But I admit, I'm beginning to have doubts that there are no withdrawals related to Adderall/meth use. Several people on here have suggested that it's just a depletion of sleep, food, water, etc and that THOSE are the post-effects we feel. I'm not so sure about that. And that's because I've specifically tested that theory. I won't go into now but perhaps some day.

 

[cdin]

Hey,

THANKS although I must admit I cannot remember what you're referring to.

I've been doing SO much better. But I admit, I'm beginning to have doubts that there are no withdrawals related to Adderall/meth use. Several people on here have suggested that it's just a depletion of sleep, food, water, etc and that THOSE are the post-effects we feel. I'm not so sure about that. And that's because I've specifically tested that theory. I won't go into now but perhaps some day.

It’s way back at the top of the post. I’ve modified my opinion about it as well. I still think that daily dosing pharm grade material at a reasonable oral dose just results in depletion — however — high dose daily methamphetamine and the damage it does over time causes so much fdisregulation and misery I’m really at a loss for what to call the result but a withdrawal- so I guess I’m saying ime the amph wd thing is on a scale of degrees based on dosage / material / length of time abused etc. — my post was on. The first page btw .

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

It’s way back at the top of the post. I’ve modified my opinion about it as well. I still think that daily dosing pharm grade material at a reasonable oral dose just results in depletion — however — high dose daily methamphetamine and the damage it does over time causes so much fdisregulation and misery I’m really at a loss for what to call the result but a withdrawal- so I guess I’m saying ime the amph wd thing is on a scale of degrees based on dosage / material / length of time abused etc. — my post was on. The first page btw .

I guess I can quickly tell you what I (think) I discovered.

I purposely binged a few months back (well sort of) and worked hard to maintain 2,000+ calories, water, etc. I was taking higher doses during the daytime hours so I could still get reasonable sleep at night, although there WERE some moments where I'd take sleep aid, muscle relaxers, Melatonin, etc. (Is that artificial sleep or does it still count?)

But either way I was sleeping pretty well on my own and the sleep aid was just a few times. Then I stopped the Adderall binge after week and I STILL struggled to get back on track. Not nearly as bad as before when I learned the hard way/. But it took me an entire week and I still didn't feel back on track. Then I went back on Adderall and/or Kratom so I don't know how much longer it was going to last.

Kratom, I've found, is GREAT for Adderall/meth withdrawals (for the lack of a better word).

Then VERY recently I basically had a 1,000 calorie diet for about 4 days. And for these days I slept something like 3 hours, then an all nighter, then 3 hours, then 2 hours. No Adderall or ANY drug other than caffeine. And I got over THAT after 1 or maybe 2 days, it seemed. One or maybe 2 good nights of sleep/food and I was fine. Just seems there's something a little extra going on with Adderall/meth.

Luckily I have a lot of PTO to use so I could afford to try these "experiments" without it fucking up my life.

To be fair, the recent thing WAS a 4-day experiment. Compared to my aforementioned Adderall experiment which was more like 7 or 8 days. So that may be a factor. But I don't know... it just doesn't feel right. Doesn't seem like one experiment should be so much easier to recover from vs the other.

I'm NOT saying it's NOT about depletion of rest/food, etc. I'm sure it is. But I'm not convinced it's 100% that. Maybe 60%?

I would enjoy talking to my doctor about this but.... eh. I'd better not (lol)

 

[cdin]

I guess I can quickly tell you what I (think) I discovered.

I purposely binged a few months back (well sort of) and worked hard to maintain 2,000+ calories, water, etc. I was taking higher doses during the daytime hours so I could still get reasonable sleep at night, although there WERE some moments where I'd take sleep aid, muscle relaxers, Melatonin, etc. (Is that artificial sleep or does it still count?)

But either way I was sleeping pretty well on my own and the sleep aid was just a few times. Then I stopped the Adderall binge after week and I STILL struggled to get back on track. Not nearly as bad as before when I learned the hard way/. But it took me an entire week and I still didn't feel back on track. Then I went back on Adderall and/or Kratom so I don't know how much longer it was going to last.

Kratom, I've found, is GREAT for Adderall/meth withdrawals (for the lack of a better word).

Then VERY recently I basically had a 1,000 calorie diet for about 4 days. And for these days I slept something like 3 hours, then an all nighter, then 3 hours, then 2 hours. No Adderall or ANY drug other than caffeine. And I got over THAT after 1 or maybe 2 days, it seemed. One or maybe 2 good nights of sleep/food and I was fine. Just seems there's something a little extra going on with Adderall/meth.

Luckily I have a lot of PTO to use so I could afford to try these "experiments" without it fucking up my life.

To be fair, the recent thing WAS a 4-day experiment. Compared to my aforementioned Adderall experiment which was more like 7 or 8 days. So that may be a factor. But I don't know... it just doesn't feel right. Doesn't seem like one experiment should be so much easier to recover from vs the other.

I'm NOT saying it's NOT about depletion of rest/food, etc. I'm sure it is. But I'm not convinced it's 100% that. Maybe 60%?

I would enjoy talking to my doctor about this but.... eh. I'd better not (lol)

well still that timeline/experience doesn't scream "wd" to me. you experience that sort of slow drift back to back on track after the formal acute withdrawal of things like opioids. for the first 3-5 days you are in absolute agony from NEEDING a piece of your biology that is gone, with body feels and mind feels that push you to do crazy things, theft, vomiting, utter physical dissarray - then you drift into the post acute phase of "feeling off track" until your receptors get a little better. I guess what I'm saying is that amps (especially pharm amps at reasoanble doses) do not produce the immediate biological reaction than myself and others associate with a true "Withdrawal" syndrome. you're definitely disregulated and it takes time to get it back together -- i recall for myself specifically after taking adderall daily from age 4 - 21 - i slept and ate a lot for two weeks, and it took about a year to be able to motivate myself without stimulants. however, at no point did i consider myself "in withdrawal" as i had previously experienced benzo/ethanol/opioid withdrawal which is just on a completely different level.
I have, however (now) seen some people abusing gigantic methamphetamine doses daily for years, and they definitely get an acute situation happening when they stop.

 

[AbbeyLee]

i slept and ate a lot for two weeks, and it took about a year to be able to motivate myself without stimulants. however, at no point did i consider myself "in withdrawal"

.......

as i had previously experienced benzo/ethanol/opioid withdrawal which is just on a completely different level.

.......

I have, however (now) seen some people abusing gigantic methamphetamine doses daily for years, and they definitely get an acute situation happening when they stop.

[Formatting mine]



Thank you

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

I love how you used the word "disregulation". Let's roll with that. Disregulation = coming off amphetamines/methamphetamines. Withdrawal = Coming off opioids, benzos, etc.

So yes, I've never thought my disregulation was a "bad" feeling. Never felt sick. Never even felt like I was "craving" amphetamines. In fact, and I don't know if I've mentioned it on here, it almost feels good! Coming down is almost like AM on benzos! Sleeping 16 hours per day after my amphetamine binges did NOT feel bad. It felt good. I wasn't laying in bed like I was depressed. I almost felt like I was swinging in a hammock with a smile on my face. In fact, someday I think I'm going to have a big amphetamine binge before going to Switzerland. Then I'll just kick back and smile, sleep all day and when I'm awake look at the mountains and read some poetry or something.

BUT it DOES feel like I cannot function. I have a job and I am a single dad so I canNOT be feeling like that all the time. Falling asleep at the wheel is NOT a good feeling. Fear of losing my job is NOT a good feeling.

But the disregulation from an aphetamine comedown seems so much stronger than the disregulation of what I tried earlier this week... purposely eating less AND drinking less water AND sleeping less. Even less than I would during an amphetamine binge. If disregulation is all about depletion and not related to the drug itself, then why was it so easy for me to recover earlier this week? This is basically Day 3 of me being back on track and it hasn't been very hard at all.

The difference with my "natural disregulation" earlier this week is that I had a.... man I don't even know how to describe it. It's like I had an electric throbbing in my head. Not like a circulatory-related headache. Like electic shock waves were putting pressure on my brain on something. Again, that was after 4 days of no sleep, no food, no water. Nothing to do with Adderall or any other drug. I've never felt THAT electric sensation when coming off an amphetamine binge. I don't know what that means... just throwing it out there.

 

[cdin]

I love how you used the word "disregulation". Let's roll with that. Disregulation = coming off amphetamines/methamphetamines. Withdrawal = Coming off opioids, benzos, etc.

So yes, I've never thought my disregulation was a "bad" feeling. Never felt sick. Never even felt like I was "craving" amphetamines. In fact, and I don't know if I've mentioned it on here, it almost feels good! Coming down is almost like AM on benzos! Sleeping 16 hours per day after my amphetamine binges did NOT feel bad. It felt good. I wasn't laying in bed like I was depressed. I almost felt like I was swinging in a hammock with a smile on my face. In fact, someday I think I'm going to have a big amphetamine binge before going to Switzerland. Then I'll just kick back and smile, sleep all day and when I'm awake look at the mountains and read some poetry or something.

BUT it DOES feel like I cannot function. I have a job and I am a single dad so I canNOT be feeling like that all the time. Falling asleep at the wheel is NOT a good feeling. Fear of losing my job is NOT a good feeling.

But the disregulation from an aphetamine comedown seems so much stronger than the disregulation of what I tried earlier this week... purposely eating less AND drinking less water AND sleeping less. Even less than I would during an amphetamine binge. If disregulation is all about depletion and not related to the drug itself, then why was it so easy for me to recover earlier this week? This is basically Day 3 of me being back on track and it hasn't been very hard at all.

The difference with my "natural disregulation" earlier this week is that I had a.... man I don't even know how to describe it. It's like I had an electric throbbing in my head. Not like a circulatory-related headache. Like electic shock waves were putting pressure on my brain on something. Again, that was after 4 days of no sleep, no food, no water. Nothing to do with Adderall or any other drug. I've never felt THAT electric sensation when coming off an amphetamine binge. I don't know what that means... just throwing it out there.

oh to be clear, the drug pushes your dopamine receptors and depletes all sorts of stuff that just naturally eating less and sleeping less do not do. your entire metabolism is turbo charged, so yeah i would absolutely expect to feel worse coming off the drugs than just stayin up late etc. imo a middle space between natural depletion - exogenous drug based depletion/disregulation and - full on bio disruption/withdrawal syndrome. all three have different feels ime.

 

[Xorkoth]

Now I'm wondering if it's "ok" to semi-regularly use Gabapentin to help me through this. Or, does my body kinda need to go through a process with as little "help" as possible?

It's okay to actually semi-regularly use gabapentin to help. But use gabapentin too often and you'll experience what actual withdrawals are like, from a drug that makes you physically dependent.

Adderall is making you really tired from binging, and depressed (probably) from monoamine depletion. But gabapentin produces physical dependence... that is a whole other ballgame. You'll wish to GOD that all you can do is sleep if you get addicted to gabapentin or opiates or gabaergics like benzos.

Please be careful.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

It's okay to actually semi-regularly use gabapentin to help. But use gabapentin too often and you'll experience what actual withdrawals are like, from a drug that makes you physically dependent.

Adderall is making you really tired from binging, and depressed (probably) from monoamine depletion. But gabapentin produces physical dependence... that is a whole other ballgame. You'll wish to GOD that all you can do is sleep if you get addicted to gabapentin or opiates or gabaergics like benzos.

Please be careful.

Oh, Gaba is not a problem for me. I suffer from legitimate pain but Gabas/opiods have never been my jam. I've been on it for at least 6 years.

I never take more than 900mg Gaba per day. Maybe once or twice I've taken 1200 mg, and a few times from earlier in this thread. But that's unusual. And if I use Gapapentin for 4 consecutive days that's unusual. I've been on them for years. No probs.

Don't know what a Gabapentin withdrawal is like, and I don't intend to find out!

I do appreciate the concern, though.

 

[Phobos]

@Asparagus_Prince
Other than Adderall, you mentioned regularly using caffeine, sometimes in large amounts.
Based on my personal experience and that of a few people that I know, it's faster to recover from amphetamine binges than it is to readjust after consuming too much caffeine for extended period of times.
The discontinuation symptoms you attribute to Adderall might be in part caused by crashing after taking caffeine only in the morning or not taking caffeine at all.
I recommend you taper down caffeine consumption during the course of 1-2 weeks and then take a few months off.
Ofcourse YMMV, but give it some thought.

 

[90sdance]

Oh my god I had a massive epiphany last night and I have this board to thank. I think it helped me realize that I’ve been struggling with Adderall withdrawals lately. It’s like a big light bulb went off. I’m sorry because I feel like I’ve been posting about Adderall and myself too much lately. I think this might be the last time.

For the last 4 or 5 months I’ve been in a routine of getting my Adderall refill, blasting through it in 12 days or so, and then waiting the next 18 days until the next refill. Those binges were usually around 70 mg per day (historically I’ve taken 15-30 per day). It was also around 4 or 5 months ago that I began feeling extremely exhausted during my Adderall breaks. Somehow my dumbass didn’t attribute it to Adderall. I thought the exhaustion was caused by something else and that it was simply smoothed over a little during my Adderall binges. My Adderall usage hadn’t changed on a per month average, so I don’t know… I was thinking the 18-day breaks were a good idea in their own way.

But my most recent break, which was throughout late November and early December, came after my most aggressive binge of all. I took about 100mg per day for a 7-day span and stopped. My follow-up “break” wasn’t just exhaustion this time, it was a little scary. I was feeling so tired and not in control of it. The scariest occasion was around Day 3 or 4 or so of that detox… I was almost nodding off in unsafe situations. The next day I stayed home and in bed all day. After that I never had any more “scary” moments to that extent, but for the next 3 weeks my exhaustion was on another level. It was nothing for me to sleep 12-14 hours, and then throughout the day take another 4 hours worth of naps before I’d go back to bed for another 12-14 hours. When I’d finally rouse it would take a while for me to get oriented. I’m not typically an energy drink person but I was drinking a lot of them. Nicotene gum and stackers too.

Then last night I was browsing this board and came across a fairly recent thread “Adderall Withdrawals- Please Help”. As I read what that guy was going through my jaw just about dropped… it sounded a lot like what I’ve been going through too! My heart almost beat out of my chest.

Now I’m afraid because I know another period of exhaustion is probably coming. I’m very concerned, actually. I have a few very important things coming up at work that could probably jeopardize my job if I’m feeling the way I did early on during the last detox. That last detox was the worst one yet, does that mean this one will be even worse? If so, I may be fucked.

I feverishly counted my pills and I have three 15mg left. I’ve been thinking about the best way to utilize them or stretch them. As I type now it’s been 16 hours since my last use, and I am starting to feel tired again but I’m functioning ok.

My next really important work day is Tuesday. That will be Day 4 and I need to be on my game for about a 5-hour span. I’m thinking about taking one 15mg then. I doubt it will make a massive difference but I’m thinking it’ll be just enough to prevent the scary stuff.

Then my next really important day is three days after that on Friday, followed by another important day 3 days later on Monday. The fact that these important days are all spaced 3-4 days apart might work out ideally, actually. I’m hoping.

During the last detox my only symptom was extreme exhaustion and lack of motivation. I can’t say I felt sick, exactly. In fact, the sleeps were always pleasant and it felt so good to stay in bed. So I’m not worried about alleviating any classic withdrawal symptoms like sickness. I just don’t want to be falling asleep on the job. I read through the other thread and I know I need to accept the restfulness, eat healthy, and try to stay active. But I absolutely have to make exceptions for those 3 days I referred to.

It’s not like I was “craving” Adderall during my previous detox periods. I think that’s why it never occurred to me that it was withdrawal. Doesn’t withdrawal always include an intense craving for whatever it is your body is wanting? I thought so, but perhaps not. My only experience with withdrawals was trying to quit cigarettes cold turkey and oh my god… I would have killed for a smoke. But I wasn’t feeling that way about Adderall. Don’t get me wrong, I would look forward to my next refill so maybe it would lift me up some. But it’s not like I ever thought that that was what my body was needing. This is the only thing that makes me think maybe it’s not Adderall withdrawal. Sleep apnea, perhaps? But surely not. Too coincidental.

What do you all think? Definitely Adderall withdrawal, right? Any suggestions? Does my plan for the final 3 pills seem about right?

I am prescribed Gabapentin and I only take it rarely. I was reading how it might help with Adderall withdrawal, but I can’t imagine it helping with the tiredness and nodding off. That’s the only thing I want to alleviate. But who knows… maybe? I feel like it’s too risky to “try”.

hope this helps.

 

[papercuts]

But use gabapentin too often and you'll experience what actual withdrawals are like, from a drug that makes you physically dependent.

Is this true? Gabapentin has physical withdrawals? I've been prescibed gabapentin for years, I take it a while, then don't for a while, never felt more than sad or anxious stopping it. What are the physical wds?

You'll wish to GOD that all you can do is sleep if you get addicted to gabapentin or opiates or gabaergics like benzos.

Fuck yes, it's my love of sleep that keeps me coming back to opiates, if only I could sleep through that, or for months after, but I can't. Maybe someday. My current mission is to swtch back to buprenorphine in the near future, I know it's not enough to keep me comfortable, so perhaps after new year, I'll still be sick. Last new year I lasted a month or two, it was getting a lot better when I went back on it, stupid as ever, guess I didn't really want to leave.
To Asparagus_Prince, the thread is a year old, are you still having the same problem?
Btw, about physical withdrawals without any craving for the missing drug, it happened with me with kratom, took me a while to realise stopping that suddenly is worse than anything I've experienced because I didn't even want or think of kratom at the same time as being sick from the lack of it (was off opies then except for bupe).

 

[Xorkoth]

Is this true? Gabapentin has physical withdrawals? I've been prescibed gabapentin for years, I take it a while, then don't for a while, never felt more than sad or anxious stopping it. What are the physical wds?

Yeah definitely, though some people seem to not get them too much. I'm experiencing them a bit right now. They're kind of like a cross between opiate and benzo withdrawals but milder than either. Insomnia, running eyes/nose, anxiety, hot/cold flashes, etc. The crushing depression is missing, and the restless limbs, too, which makes it less severe but it's most certainly there. Takes a while to develop, though. I only ever experienced them after I was addicted to phenibut a couple of separate times (they share a mechanism of action and it's easier to get addicted to a class of drug again after you have been addicted to it before).

 

[Xorkoth]

Btw, about physical withdrawals without any craving for the missing drug, it happened with me with kratom, took me a while to realise stopping that suddenly is worse than anything I've experienced because I didn't even want or think of kratom at the same time as being sick from the lack of it (was off opies then except for bupe).

That happens to me with gabapentinoids. I can have a full tub of phenibut sitting right next to me and feel awful from not having it, but have no problem sticking to my taper or jump-off plan. Which is strange to me, because when it comes to opiates, including kratom, the cravings are overwhelming when I am feeling even slight withdrawals.