Withdrawal during Winter, complications arise..

[Chapterhouse]

Hey guys, I was a long time member of a certain forum that no longer exists, though I have lurked here for 6-7 years, you may call me Chapter . I joined in part to journal my current withdrawal experience, as I find it somewhat therapeutic (i hope this is the correct forum for such things).

In the last decade+ I have used just about every opiate/opioid around, minus the extremely rare ones. Long time user of poppy pods, before the damn bust you all should be familiar with. After that I switched to seeds. Goddamn that withdrawal is a nightmare, close to methadone in my experience. Someone I work with got me into IV use (if i ever see him again I might lose my shit and do something dumb...), which quickly escalated to idiotic proportions. He was an avid user of the darkweb, so he supplied me with very pure diesel, and basically anything I wanted.

After a 6-7 month period of that hellish existence I finally went to a suboxone doc. He was a typical sub doctor, only in it for the money. He wanted to start me on 16 mgs a day and maybe raise it. I told him hell no, 8mg will do just fine. Shit was going well, until I was face to face with a bag of fresh rigs...(same motherfucker, hes not the only one to blame obviously, i wasnt at gunpoint but still). I started shooting the sub strips, I know, please dont berate me for doing that stupid shit. I did 3x the damage to my veins in 2 months of doing that than I did with my previous IV stint.

It certainly didnt help that said dude moved back to where he was from, and I was without a source for rigs. I live in North Dakota, which is SUPER conservative. No needles exchanges, shit there isnt even a methadone clinic in the entire state. I tried a ton of different tricks to try and get some rigs from pharmacies etc, but no go. My dog is diabetic, blah blah blah. So much for harm reduction. I used the same 2 bags of 10 rigs for about 2 months. I am so goddamn lucky I didnt get a fucking infection or some shit. Needless to say, the reuse of needles plus shooting subs demolished my veins. I wake up every morning with my arms numb from the elbows down. Such an idiot.

It has been about 10 months since i put the needle down, and it wasnt as hard as i thought it would be. I was on suboxone for a total of a year or so. I failed a piss test by the doc because of weed, and lied to him so he kicked me out of the program. It was fine, I needed to stop anyways. His solution was to taper down to 2mgs in a month period, and then jump off at 2mg. Fucking pathetic. 2mg sounds like a breeze to jump off at! I self tapered with whatever subs i had left, succumbing to temptation a few times, making the taper not as successful as it could have been. I should also mention that I have no insurance, so the subs cost me 300$ cash to see the doc, and 200$ for the meds. I am a veteran and use the VA for all my needs, they dont give two shits. But when they found out I was on suboxone they CERTAINLY cared, dropping me from my clonazepam I had been taking for 3 years, another super quick taper that was probably very dangerous.

It has been a month and a half since I used suboxone, minus an occasion or two I will mention in a bit. I spent the first 3 weeks using the normal WD remedies. The VA was kind enough to give me an assload of clonidine and 5mg of diazepam for sleep( hahah!, try tripling that and maybe Ill sleep). Plus immodium, in normal and sometimes large (usually about 20-24mgs) doses, and an assortment of shit i had accumulated over time from the VA trying to find me a different solution for my anxiety/PTSD. Its a bunch of shit that doesnt help, mostly anti depressants, anti psychotics, and zolpidem. I refuse to use them after I tried 50mgs of seroquel to try and sleep, which was a mistake.

Now for the complications. I was an idiot again (trend?). My job is physically demanding, and we all know how fun working is while in WD. I am a manager at a large electronics retailer that rhymes with Nest Guy. I decided doing some poppy seeds would help me get through some particularly bad times, and of course i ended up doing it for a few days too many. Then I came into some suboxone strips for free...this was at about...a little over a month in? I did 2 8mg strips over a few day period. I REALLY hope that didnt restart the entire cycle, god it was fucking stupid. During the black friday weekend (thursday night through saturday, long days, crazy) I decided I couldnt do it without something. The year previous I was in WD during the black friday weekend and I did not want to repeat it.

I used poppy seeds for 4 days, and here I sit on Tuesday the 1st. My withdrawals are moderate I would say. No horrifying aches/leg or back pain like usual. Just crawling skin, hot/cold flashes, yawning, watery eyes, lethargy to the max, RLS and sleeplessness. I have some benzos for sleep but my supply is small, so i try to use it only when absolutely neccessary. Also as I was typing this, my kratom arrived. I have used this godsend many, many, many times. I feel so much better after a good dose of the extract. I have 16oz of good Bali ground shit.

Here is the monkey wrench. I have an umbilical hernia, and I have put off the surgery for a goddamn year. My surgery is 1 week away. Im praying my WD will be gone by then. Given the moderate-ness of it, I believe its possible. I am terrified the docs wont give me any meds for pain. My gf will have control of them, and she is vigilant. My tolerance is still huge from the suboxone. The bullshit 20 5mg hydrocodone they will probably give me wont do shit. I talked to the doc about my concerns a few months ago, and he assured me it would be fine. I have ZERO trust in the VA. They only care about bureaucratic bullshit, and not the well-being of people. I am prepared for the worst but who knows, maybe I'll luck out. Its sad Im looking FORWARD to being hooked up to a drip before and after the surgery. Junky to the core. If i am still in mild WD when I show up there next week, do you think they will not want to perform the surgery? I cant imagine withdrawal would be too good when putting someone under, but I have no idea. I dont expect any of you to KNOW, just looking for opinions. They know of my suboxone use, so I will be honest with them about being in WD, unless you guys think I shouldnt? I cant imagine it would be a good idea not to.

Sorry for the novel guys/gals, I guess this could also serve as an intro post. TL;DR I am a 10 year junky trying to get clean, been off of suboxone for a month and a half, with a slip up or two in between. Looking for advice, thoughts, and to journal my experience.

Thanks,

Chapter

 

[herbavore]

Hi Chapter, I think after reading your post that mindfulness could really help you through this whole situation. Right now you are understandably worried about what is going to happen when you have the surgery. Since you have been up-front with your doctor and he/she has reassured you that it will be OK (as far as the outcome) the pain is your biggest concern, correct? Mindfulness has been shown to be very effective in moderating pain because anxiety about pain and the actual physical sensations are so tangled up together. Going into surgery with an anxious mind is never good. Start using everything within your control now to mitigate your anxiety. Visualize the hernia gone and any pain associated with it also gone. Investigate breathing techniques for both pain (the kind women use in labor) and calming breathing techniques (that are used for meditation). Both of these can be very effective. Here is a site that could be helpful:http://www.healfaster.com/intro.html

Also, check out this thread here on Bluelight.

P.S. Your girlfriend sounds awesome.

 

[Chapterhouse]

Thank you for your kind words Herbavore! Yes...since my days in the military, and especially afterwards I have been battling anxiety/PTSD. I cannot seem to calm myself without meds, which is obviously undesirable. I have heard of the techniques you mentioned, but never tried them. I will check it out, thank you!

Yes my girlfriend is indeed awesome, I have put her through hell and she is still here. She didnt even know I was on any drugs until we had been dating for a long time. Then we moved in together and she wondered why I spent so much time in the bathroom. Needless to say I was shooting up in there, ugh, thinking of those times makes me sad. I destroyed her when I finally came clean. Its been about a year, and i dont think i have earned her trust back yet completely, which is warranted. She battles her own demons with alcohol so she understands. Its weird sitting in front of someone who has never touched any substance other than booze while you are guzzling disgusting, brown piss colored liquid (this was during the black friday weekend). She just said shit like, "you feeling better babe?" I am very lucky. I know if I get pain meds I will take them like candy, so she will hold onto them and not budge when im sure I will be pleading. I just hope she can discern between when I actually need some, and when I dont. Though that may be impossible.

As to the doctor, I dont know. I explained the situation to him 6 months ago when i saw him, and we planned on doing the surgery in December. I told him I planned on being off the suboxone by then, which I hope proves my commitment since I did follow through with the timeline. I just have such little trust in them, they have fucked me so bad in the past. I used to have this amazing shrink who would go above and beyond to help me. I told he straight up I was WDing (this was a couple years ago) and she said she would hook me up with whatever I needed, and document it like its for anxiety. She also never wrote down anything about my addiction since she knew it would blacklist me. While that may not be 100% ethical, when you think about the bigger picture, it was the right thing to do. She didnt give me copious amounts of shit, just enough to help. Then she retired and now I see a NP who is such a bitch. Ugh. All I can do is hope for the best and try to not dwell on it. Thanks again!


Chapter

 

[RoxieRoad]

Hey chapter, I read your post and here are some things that went through my head as I was reading.

#1: I would not bang suboxone under any circumstances. I hate to suggest this, but if you have to succumb to the temptation, I think you might be better off using actual dope, and here is my reasoning: Suboxone is a very useful tool in helping you QUIT dope. It is also a long lasting opiod. Therefore, to bang it, will begin to associate it with all the bad things that dope has done for you, and will no longer be of use in helping to quit. It also lasts much longer and the WD's are going to be worse than a short acting opioid like pills or H. Also, I would think it worse for you to bang than the short acting opioids too. That's a triple loss. Worse for you, harder to quit, and habit forming and will not be a tool to help you QUIT.

#2: I appreciate your service to our country and I hate you are having to deal with PTSD. That's unfortunate, man. I know for a lot of us, our addictions are a crutch and provides an escape from the things we have to deal with. I am no different from you in that way.

#3: If you are serious about quitting, don't beat yourself up on your shortfalls or screw-ups. Just get back on the horse and get started on the right path again. It took a long time to get where you are, you probably won't fix it in a day.

#4: I think you will be better off taking responsibility for your own actions, instead of blaming this POS friend you used to have. No denying he's an asshole for introducing you to that lifestyle, but we are adults (men) and a man makes his own choices. I think it will be easier to get your life back if you assume responsibility for what got you where you are in the first place.

#5: Be open and honest with your doctor and tell him everything and what you have been doing. It could be important to the outcome of this surgery, especially since you've been banging sub. That stuff stays in your system a long time, and could potentially cause some PWD when they start you on a drip or even cause complications during surgery. He may also lead you in the right direction on how to get yourself some real help, especially if this doctor is outside of your normal network and not specifically a VA doctor.

Good luck man. It sounds like you've been through a lot, but I challenge you to take your life back. You can do it. Dig deep. You're in the service and have been to war so I know you're a strong individual. We're here for you if you need to talk. I wish you all the best brother.

 

[Chapterhouse]

Hey Roxie. Thanks for the reply, and the encouragement. I definitely want to say that I do take responsibility for using needles, he didnt strap me down or put a knife to my throat. Though it is true that if i had never met him, i probably wouldnt have done it (i have been saying no to people for a long time), but it doesnt change the fact that i eventually caved when he got me on the right day. Its a tough pill to swallow. About #2, no worries, I did what I did to get away from drugs, and serve my country, and I stayed clean for years, though i drank disgusting amounts of liquor.

I know how stupid it is to shoot subs, its a very high risk low reward type of situation (compared to other IV drugs), i have heard a lot of horror stories. Once that "friend" left I no longer had access to his darkweb sources, and living in ND, if you can even find dope its literally 10x the normal price than in a big city. Thank god I came out ok, and I dont do it anymore, its been a long time, 11-12 months or so. And I havent taken any subs in 2 weeks (since my "relapse") so it should be out of my system. My doc knows about the suboxone, but doesnt know about anything else, and i'd like to keep it that way. Though if for some reason they want to put an IV in my arm rather than hand (its been a long time since i was in the hospital), they usually go for the hand right? Anyways if they do, they will definitely notice my shitty veins, i dont have any outside scars, but anyone experienced with a needle will be able to tell they are pushing through scar tissue under the skin. Sigh...i just need to try and not worry about it. If they give me shit or not to help with pain, it has to happen regardless. I appreciate the welcome and support!


Chapter

 

[Stargazer]

Hey Chapter...Great read. My husband is a vet, and I was agreeing with you about the VA. Yes, all true. The nightmare we were put through when my husband got back from Baghdad, the sudden, large drops in meds like Fentanyl, that was prescribed freely, amongst the other shit ton of meds they gave him (three different benzos with all of that too Jesus H. Christ) Then one day, just drop it all in half. Then another 1/4 next visit, etc. Through all their ridiculous changes and the poor way I hear them talk to and see them treat you guys, I actually went after one of the staff members-and was escorted outside by the police. Then I had a restraining order that this guy couldn't come within 6ft of us when we were there...so yeah I hear you. And indeed the VA suddenly "cares" if they find out something they don't like lol.

I'm sorry you're going through, believe me, I have been through it too. Opiate addiction is one that holds many of us forever.

Coming from another opiate addict, I like that you have no illusions about yourself or addiction. It does just grab you-if you're not on top of it. Telling the medical staff the truth is indeed the best possible thing you can do. God forbid, only because, they weren't aware of something you had serious if not fatal complications that could've been easily remedied...

Thanks for sharing your story. I related to many parts of it. All the best with your surgery. Please keep us updated.

 

[Tinker55]

Chapter, I am sorry that you are going through this crap! The IV in the elbow area is actually a precaution if large volumes of fluid or blood may be required.

Thank you for your service and let us know?

 

[Chapterhouse]

Oh Stargazer, you arent the only one who has been upset in the VA waiting room, though I didnt go after someone, I certainly came close. I could go on and on about those fuckers. Though it seems like I had it easy compared to your husband, good lord, being dropped from Fentanyl and 3 different benzos at the same time would make me wanna swallow a bullet. I have done Fentanyl withdrawal before (almost OD'd a few times too, back when you could still get gel patches easily...OMG 100mcg/hr patches...making me salivate) and while faily short, its ridiculously intense. I definitely hold no illusions about myself, I try to be a realist, though I tend to just be really cynical and pessimistic most of the time. Im glad you enjoyed reading my post, and it makes me smile that we have some things in common.

Tinker: No problem, Its pretty amazing to think back to the things I used to do...I was proud. I had a purpose, and I did something that mattered. Now im so far from that its scary. Loser working in a dead end job, barely scraping by each month when i used to have a ton of money (cheating ex-wife enjoyed taking half of what I spent years accumulating from deployments and such, which of course disappeared quickly as i spiraled downward). Thank god I have a family and girlfriend who loves me, though I certainly have put the latter in jeopardy with what I have done the last few days...

I feel like such a complete asshole...the worst kind of person. My girlfriend has had a full bottle of 10mg hydrocodone for over a year hidden in her bathroom, she told me she threw them away, and i believed her. The other day I needed some aspirin and I saw the bag...it was like someone else, not me forced my hand into that bag. I popped 6 of them, fuck a CWE (dumb, do not do this), I was too impatient. Man did I feel great, and I seemed to feel the glow until I went to bed (I dosed at like 9:30 am). Today I took more...I could not control myself. I know how terrible it is to take someones meds, though she was never going to use them for anything (she has had a skull cracking migraine and I BEGGED her to take some and she refused, not that it makes it right), and im really surprised she DIDNT toss them. I felt really guilty, and still do. If she finds out its gonna be a shit show. It probably wouldnt be as big of a deal if I hadnt dated her 10 years ago, and pulled a similar stunt with her dads meds, which was much worse considering he DID need them for pain. I am a pretty awful person.

I dont know what to do, for the time being I replaced the missing pills with similarly shaped lose dose tylenol. I am pretty sure our relationship will be in danger because of this, so I dont know whether to tell her, or hope she never notices, she doesnt know a thing about drugs so she might not take a second look at them. Then again she is 5x smarter than me, and will probably know. Of course I want to tell her, as I havent lied to her about anything for a very long time, since I came clean to her about my drug use over a year+ ago. Im sure I will get no sympathy for the predicament I am in, which is fine, considering I deserve none. And I know what the right thing to do is, but I....just dont know if i can. Though as I have found out from experience, I know the longer I go before telling her, or if she decides to open it up and count them (which is a distinct possibility because of my upcoming surgery, and she will know I will be itching for more opiates after being teased by whatever they hopefully give me), I wil be fucked. I should tell her, but it will break her heart. I despise myself.

I leave for the VA hospital in a few hours, its 3 hours away, we have a clinic in town but if you need anything more than a checkup (MRI etc.) you have to drive to the nearest VA hospital. Tomorrow morning is the procedure. I am out of kratom, and now withdrawaling from that...goddamnit...I knew I should have ordered a larger amount. Either way I think im gonna tell the docs about the kratom, even though I wont be taking any the morning of the surgery. My last spoonful will be ingested right before my dad picks me up to drive over there. I WILL be in very mild WD the morning of my surgery and Im nervous (higher BP/Heart Rate etc)...though the most pronounced WD symptoms are hot/cold flashes and a wee bit of lethargy, so I doubt it will matter. My BP and HR seem to be fine, but I guess I will find out soon! I just dont want to drive there, and get told I need to reschedule my surgery. Last night I was so tempted to buy a big bag of poppy seeds to prevent this from happening, but I figured that was a bad idea, for multiple reasons. I really hope they dont drug test me....sigh...or deny me meds since they will have difficulty finding a vein in my elbow area....sigh.

I will most likely get torn apart for being a shitty person, which is true. I will update you guys when I return tomorrow night. Quick funny story, as I was typing this a nurse called wanting to go over stuff for surgery blah blah blah, afterwards she was like,"Im in the recovery room, so hopefully I will see you tomorrow!" I was like....ummm yeah I hope I see you too! I dont wanna die on the fucking table! Ughh, Im such a worrier, and im kinda scared. Wish me luck guys/gals.

Chapter