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Will repeated "Methoxphenidine" use result in bladder damage?

C

Colourblind

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
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Methoxphenidine - "1-(1-(2-methoxyphenyl)-2-phenylethyl)piperidine"

I've recently started using this substance to help with a long standing still undiagnosed mental health issue I've lived with for as long as I remember. When left to my own sober devices I find my mind becomes very fragmented. I wake up not knowing who I am and what is important to me in life. I forget what i'm saying halfway through a sentence, get words and names mixed up but never conceptual ideas. This has led me down some dark roads of depression in the past. Alongside crippling anxiety. I first used this substance recreationally during my more wild days a few years ago. After many uses i noticed a correlation, the days after using this drug I would find my mind to be far more together and my cognitive ability increased. Everything flowed more naturally and my motivation increased as a result of this. It really is helping me in turning my life around.
I did some research and found that NMDA receptor antagonists are being tried in clinical trials as a treatment for schizophrenia which i believe i may be affected to some degree. I certainly fit the bill when i look back on my life. Extreme paranoia, delusions and always being described as being in my own world. Anyways, mental health aside. I have this covered and following the appropriate steps to get help. My main concern is using this drug in as low dose as is effective for me (down to 50mg so far - which i show no dissociation from at all. In fact quite the contrary. I become more dissociated when i don't take.) will cause irreparable damage to my bladder in a way in which Ketamine and MXE (possibly) would. I believe these drugs to be very different in chemical structures though so my guess is they will metabolise in to very different chemicals also? Need to brush up on my chemistry. Quickly i think too. Anyways, i realise this is pretty advanced stuff but if someone could help i would be ever so grateful. Thanks.
 
Good question, but it's a bit early for anyone to know the right answer to your question with a high degree of certainty.
 
Thanks guys, I will be sure to read through that thread when i'm at work tonight. (once all my work is done - of course.) The more i can learn about this the more i can mitigate any issues that may arise sooner or later. But the positives i'm getting out of this at the moment far out weigh the negatives. Just need to keep it on that track. If this changes I will share with the community of course.
 
I would be more concerned with mental and/or emotional damage from the "dines"
I havent tried mxp but diph and eph was pretty damn brutal at higher doses.

One of the worst experiences of my life was a mixtrip of diph and 3meo-pce.
Im all for a badtrip to learn things, but that was just plain dumb and traumatizing with no benefit except i learned to not chase the dissio dragon in that class.
 
Haha! Chase the dissio dragon. Yes the dine dragon is to be respected at all times. It is unpredictable and a slight miss-dose will rip you another arsehole. I've experienced effects so wildly varied its beyond me. Once I was watching Avatar and suddenly i was IN the movie! Pandora is a pretty cool place by the way. Been there, got the T shirt. Another time on a similar dose (High, way too high infact. In the 400mg range. I'm not so foolish now.) I felt nothing. That's it. Nothing, when i say i felt nothing. I don't mean i felt nothing. I mean i felt nothing. I just sat there feeling like all the colour and spice had been sucked out of my perception and i was just observing a dead empty hollow world. The dose that is helping me with some issues i have is only 50mg - 70mg daily though and off this i feel so clear headed and content in life. Reduced anxiety, more mentally stable and so on. Just hope it isn't rotting me from the inside out. But after suffering with chronic depression all my adolescent and adult life and the most insane mood swings that were getting more and more regular i'm open to anything.
 
I don't think there are good reasons to suspect that the bladder damage has anything to do with the arylcyclohexylamines being NMDA antagonists / dissociatives, there does not seem to be a physiological link there... but we just don't know.

It appears IMO that the chemicals themselves or their metabolites are - entirely apart from pharmacological action - caustic irritants of the bladder lining, that with enough chronic damage will result in scarring... mostly from being dissolved in the urine sitting in the bladder affecting the lining.
[The gall bladder may also play some role, feel painful or go spastic - but that is more of a mystery to me.]

MXE is quite possibly just around as damaging as ketamine, only you just need less material to get high. So the amount of material passing through and sitting in your bladder seems more important than how strong of a dissociative they are mg for mg.

MXP and other xphenidines do require rather large dosages compared to say 3-MeO-PCP and that is not a good sign. But no clue as to how damaging the actual chems or metabolites are in the bladder. There was a rumor that it is the cyclohexane or cyclohexanone part or their metabolites that seems tricky in ACHs, which are not present in the xphenidines. Then again of course, be wary of faulty toxicology 'SAR', cause you often can't blame problems on a functional group in a family of chemicals - you can only follow trends or tendencies, by the properties shared in such families because of their similarities.

The xphenidines are quite lipophilic though - they act long and linger in the body in fatty tissues, perhaps this leads to slower excretion and thus more dilution in the urine which would be a potential good thing.

Drink enough fluids when consuming considerable 100s of mgs of these substances and pee frequently, as a rule... to avoid concentrated urine in the bladder just sitting there.

And as was already pointed out: these dissociatives have more acute pressing risks that are known to ruin shit in people's lives, absolute trainwrecks! Careful!
 
Wow. Thanks for giving your time to put together such an informative answer. Couldn't have asked for more really. I will look at this later when i'm rested. Had a lot on recently and am way behind on sleep and i'm feeling it! Just wanted to say thanks though. Took me like 10 minutes to type this haha.
 
I will say that after a year or so of MXE use, then MXP, that I started having wicked urges to urinate, even with an "empty" bladder, which was a sign for me to stop using them altogether. I also recall having some issues with strange kidney sensations, and again, urinary tract issues that I do believe to be related to the drugs. Now, I was abusing them, and went through quite a bit of it, but I am convinced that some people may encounter some issues with these compounds that are similar to Ketamine side-effects, though perhaps not to the same degree. It did scare me away from the compounds, though, and I loved MXE. I saw a guy on a documentary who had been doing mass quantities of K for a couple of years, and had to have multiple surgeries on his damaged bladder, and he needs to catheterize himself multiple times a day at like 30 years of age. Fuck that...
 
That's some scary stuff, If you don't mind me asking what kind of doses were you experimenting with and on what regularity? I'm quite attached to my bladder and the idea of having it removed is less than ideal haha. I wen't to the solicitors yesterday to deal with some trouble I've got myself in to relating to some naive benzo use last summer. I'd taken 55mg MXP 4 hours prior and he didn't seem to be able to tell I was on anything. 50 - 60mg definitely seems like a sweet spot for me as in a medicinal dose. Hoping by following the advice I've got on here so far and keeping the dose as low as possible i can keep myself healthy physically and still reap the benefit of the mental health improvements I've seen. I was on Amityptline 75mg daily for over 3 years and i discontinued this over night - cold turkey in December. I'm feeling better now than i can remember. So i'm keen to keep this going if possible. Harm reduction is key right.
 
I have to admit...I was abusing it. I went through MANY grams over the course of over a year. I was probably using 4 or 5 days a week, and doing between 150 and 200 mg per day, give or take. And of course as tolerance builds, you can do WAY more than that. I also had some scary-ass experiences on it when I did too much in a day, and thought I was dying, had panic attacks, racing heart, all that nonsense. I think if you are reasonable, give yourself breaks, try and use once or twice a week in moderation, you might be OK. I was completely out of hand with both substances after I got used to them because I LOVED the mania phase of that stuff...right when you find your sweet spot. But I do recall trying to sneak in a dose when I was attending a seminar...an important one. I had some MXE arriving in my box that day. I went home "for lunch" from the seminar, tested the M, and got so fucked up I literally just hung around at home, unable to drive and barely able to see or talk. I felt like an idiot, and sent the professor an email later that day stating that my kid had gotten sick and I needed to attend to her. Just one of many wacky MXE related stories. It was good while it lasted, and after a couple of weeks of not using it, the odd symptoms subsided. It was very scary, and I was well aware of Ks effects on the urinary tract, so in the end I was glad I quick.
 
Hey there "The shadow self" Thanks for the honesty, let's face it. This is bluelight. There's no judgement here. Sorry It's taken a while to reply. been so busy lately flying through my crazy life. Seem to have about 300 million different things i'm learning all at once. The Legal System (out of necessity!), Chemistry, Latin, Photography, Diet, Basic Neuroscience, LiPo battery chemistry, there's so much out there and trying to integrate it all in to my new found mental clarity has been interesting. I'm no genius. Christ, 3 months ago I was at work crying in front of my boss living (another) full on mental breakdown and wanting to kill myself. Literally wanted to die. Now i'm here listening to Ellie G - high & Chillin'. Everyone keeps telling me how I seem like a completely different person. So positive and full of life and all. Hell - I'm on drugs for god's sake. That's not right is it!? Need to keep this flying in the right direction, and the only way i can do that is with the help of Bluelight. =D I'm on 1P-LSD right now too 100ug. At this actual second. I'm not sure why i'm even writing this, to be honest. I guess i just wanted to say thank you.
 
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