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Treatment Will I still do what I do sober?

johnl2

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Hello everyone, this is my second thread. I have been on suboxone/subutex for the last 7 years. I have gained a lot of hobbies, spent thousands of dollars on equipment such as CNC machines, lathes, built a lot of things such as a turbine engine, a 1911 and several other projects. I also have an RC hobby, tons of helicopters, etc. There's more, but I'm sure you get the point. I am so worried that when I'm finally sober, will I still want to do these things? I notice when I stop sub all together, I lose interest. Idk if it's b/c I feel like crap, or what. But I have so much invested. I would be devastated to lose it. Oh, I also picked up programming, like arduino, I made a full ground controller for the turbine I built, made my own circuit board and all. I am deep into this stuff! Actually, kinda unhealthy like, to the point where if I wasn't working, I'd be doing that. The sub peaked my interest to a point where everything was so interesting that I could not get enough and sometimes I'd have a hard time choosing which project to pick up b/c I love it all so much. And I'm not even on a high dose, maybe average 2mg per day for 7 years. Anybody have any experience with this? Any help is appreciated.

Thanks
 
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Yes, if you want to. It's understandable that you'd have fear and anxiety about how the future will look, but you never know until you get there. Maybe your current hobbies won't fill the exact same space as they do now, but if you genuinely enjoy what you're doing, then there's no reason to believe you won't continue to pursue the same activities. You may experience some anhedonia (lack of pleasure) when coming off the sub, but that's to be expected. Taper down safely and at your own pace and try not to ruminate about the situation. We're here for you if you need help!
 
I was on methadone for 16 months. In that time i had developed several hobbies all tied to my main interest in life. I had spent a lot of money gathering equipment and materials much like yourself way before I decided to try quitting methadone. I started lowering my dose which lead to lack of interest in all areas of my life but i would regain it before i lowered my dose again. Finally when I jumped off I was demotivated for almost 3 weeks and was actually in the middle of a project when I couldnt muster the motivation to continue.

After 3 weeks I remember one day on my day off from work i got up and felt great and highly motivated. I remember because i was so excited that i actually wanted to continue after being so worried about not regaining the motivation. If you stick with it you will find you get motivated again.
 
Hey John:

May I ask why you're going off of subs?

This is just my 2 cents- if you are no longer using your doc - and subs are keeping you on the straight and narrow what prompted you to want to discontinue?

To answer your question- as long as your emotional and mental health issues are addressed- Yes!! You will definitely still have hobbies and enjoy your life. You obviously found your passions.

Many times when I was clean- and my definition of clean is as long as Im not shooting heroin- my severe anxiety and panic attacks were never handled. So being "clean" was miserable.

About 2yrs ago- I was diagnosed with bipolar 2 and put on Neurontin (gabapentin) and it was life-changing for me. Like I never realized life was like this without severe anxiety and panic. I realized I had been self-medicating w heroin and some other occasional odds and end meds. Some prescribed.

Being clean is so much better than the drug lifestyle. That being said-if subs help w your depression - and you're not abusing them-2mg a day is certainly not abuse-and your life is good and in order why discontinue them?

I wish you all the best John! Good luck with whatever you decide is best for you <3
 
^^also maybe your passions are really your passions and subs have nothing to do w that. It could be once your life was no longer all about using- you felt alot better I'm just speaking from my experience of having an undiagnosed and untreated condition that made me deeply unhappy that I never knew I had. Left untreated it was horrible.

Sometimes your mental and emotional health get overlooked. Just food for thought. ?
 
Thank you so much for the flood of responses guys, I appreciate it and feel much better about this. . .

Grinders, thank you for your input, it helped

szuko, I hear exactly what you're saying, but just stick with it. .. the things I am doing are indeed my passions and I've always been interested in this stuff, it's just that I feel I'm TOO interested if you know what I mean and I guess that is what I'm scared of losing. That peak in interest and drive I get, it's insane. I am literally in love with what I'm doing to a point where it's an unhealthy obsession.

10years, I am going off the subs b/c it's been 7 years and I know what it does to your body and mouth. I do not want to lose anymore teeth and I want to be healthy. Not to mention the money, I cannot afford $500 a month. Also, I am unable to show my wife affection. There is no sex b/c I have no drive. I was willing to do it anyway, but she will not have it if it isn't genuine. All of these are really good reasons to come off in my opinion! I am normally not depressed, but I literally forgot what it was like to be sober. It has been so long and I am very scared. But it has to happen, I cannot stay on this med for the rest of my life and the longer I wait to come off, the harder it's going to be. I tried jumping off from 4mg and lasted 7 days. The withdrawals weren't too bad, definitely doable, however, it was my head that made me go back on. So I am going to do a slow taper, I got down to a quarter of a quarter of a mg at one point and at that point, I felt like I wasn't even on anything. I was literally sober. Well, so to speak. The sub did not do anything for me at that point. But something happened and I got stressed really bad and jumped back up. Ever since then, I've been on a straight 2mg more or less. So I'd like to taper down to as low as I can again and jump off. I just want my passion for my hobbies to still be in place when that happens.

Thank you again everyone for all of the responses. It helps.

John
 
John you are awesome. Your honesty is one of the reasons I love BL. Most of us give genuine kindness, honesty and vulnerability to one another. And they are some good reasons to stop subs.

I didn't know subs affected your teeth. And the sex drive-now that you mentioned it, one of my guy friends had told me that. I think all opiates affect men somewhat in the sex area.

When Im high on opiates I describe it as ambitious. I'm super into whatever I'm doing from cleaning to drawing. Is that what you mean by "too into" things? That drive does feel good. I'n surprised that 2mgs of suboxone does that to you. Maybe your very sensitive to them.

A slow taper ia a great idea. There are many people here that will know about subs and give you great suggestions and advice. I don't know alot about them. All the best in tackling this. You will. Take your time and be kind to yourself along the way. -S
 
I too found ORT to be amazing at gaining the stability I required to get back into healthy habits, in terms of both re-establishing those I'd gotten out of touch with over my career of heavy use and developing new ones I wasn't very familiar with. Once established, these healthy habits - all tied to my passions in one way or another - gave me a further foundation to rely upon to help maintain a stable mood and keep the stress of life (and tapering) under control as I engaged in a very lengthy taper. It wasn't easy, but it was so incredibly rewarding that it wasn't anything like the horror stories you hear.

Tapering no more than once a week and making sure to take regular weeks or two off from tapering made the process of getting off very manageable. Plus it gave me plenty of time to organize the support groups I had established in life - not really so much abstinence oriented kind of support, but my involvement volunteering, at school, with supportive communities tied to other passions, etc - and get a good kit of comfort meds together to manage the two-ish weeks of mild acute withdrawal I experiences when jumping off from zero (mostly consisting of irritability, malaise, and a fucked up circadian rhythm).

Getting off opioids will do wonders for your sex drive (or if you're like me and where plenty horny while on them, make you go totally nuts like a pubescent male adolescent), however I caution you that this is not nearly enough of a motivation in terms of one that can reasonably assume will carry one through the protracted effort of tapering, detoxing and stabilizing post opioid use. I found a deeper, perhaps somewhat existential kind of motivation to be much more powerful (like how I knew my opioid use was preventing me from achieving the most important goals I had in life, and how I'd need to address that before it was reasonable for me to expect I had any real shot of accomplishing my albeit meager life goals).

But the more motivating factors you have (sexual energy, financial, familiar, etc) the better!

What are you doing in life you enjoy john? And what do you desire to start reengaging with in life in order to become the person you wish to be(come)? Worthwhile questions to reflect on a bit. You're mood and motivation will definitely go through some changes during the process of continuing to attaining long term sobriety/recovery, but this is nothing to be afraid of. If you are patient with yourself and kind and gentle in terms of the changes you'll experience - and the changes implied in realizing one day you have been opioid free for even just a few months is pretty mind blowing, after years of use - you will be more than able to roll with the punches.

I'd suggest educating yourself as to what to experience during the taper, detox and early recovery from opioid use. It is a very predictable process, though the dearth of anything but anecdotal info on the subjects in everyday life make it very difficult to wrap one's head around in a realistic way. Of course, we are happy to help with that here though ;)

Be well!
 
^^Yes. ? Great advice and information for all of us. You're not alone John. We're all on this journey w you And some of us-myself included- are re-visiting this place again.

toothpastedog has helped me realize it doesn't need to be rushed. A long slow taper w good comfort meds in place is fine. As long as I'm headed in the right direction. ❤️
 
I was on methadone for 16 months. In that time i had developed several hobbies all tied to my main interest in life. I had spent a lot of money gathering equipment and materials much like yourself way before I decided to try quitting methadone. I started lowering my dose which lead to lack of interest in all areas of my life but i would regain it before i lowered my dose again. Finally when I jumped off I was demotivated for almost 3 weeks and was actually in the middle of a project when I couldnt muster the motivation to continue.

After 3 weeks I remember one day on my day off from work i got up and felt great and highly motivated. I remember because i was so excited that i actually wanted to continue after being so worried about not regaining the motivation. If you stick with it you will find you get motivated again.

I have also quit using Methadone after having used it for almost 8 years as a replacement 'therapy'. I had a tough time for months and months in a roll. I became more centered, life changed and I had to relearn how to socialize as well as how to behave in a much more general sense. I got stronger and the perception of freedom changed. I realized I was living a very conditional life and that I had to conquer happiness again. I admit that was okay with mmt, but even better without it. But also agree that any step towards the right direction was a great part of my recovery.

Wish you all the strength and peace. :) <3
 
I have also quit using Methadone after having used it for almost 8 years as a replacement 'therapy'. I had a tough time for months and months in a roll. I became more centered, life changed and I had to relearn how to socialize as well as how to behave in a much more general sense. I got stronger and the perception of freedom changed. I realized I was living a very conditional life and that I had to conquer happiness again. I admit that was okay with mmt, but even better without it. But also agree that any step towards the right direction was a great part of my recovery.

Wish you all the strength and peace. :) <3

Sounds just like my experience with MMT, just a bit of different (more mature perhaps) emphasis :)
 
John you are awesome. Your honesty is one of the reasons I love BL. Most of us give genuine kindness, honesty and vulnerability to one another. And they are some good reasons to stop subs.

I didn't know subs affected your teeth. And the sex drive-now that you mentioned it, one of my guy friends had told me that. I think all opiates affect men somewhat in the sex area.

When Im high on opiates I describe it as ambitious. I'm super into whatever I'm doing from cleaning to drawing. Is that what you mean by "too into" things? That drive does feel good. I'n surprised that 2mgs of suboxone does that to you. Maybe your very sensitive to them.

A slow taper ia a great idea. There are many people here that will know about subs and give you great suggestions and advice. I don't know alot about them. All the best in tackling this. You will. Take your time and be kind to yourself along the way. -S

Thanks 10Y, I appreciate the kind words. Yes, unfortunately sub does assist in tooth decay. Luckily mine aren't that bad, I had to get a couple of molars pulled but that's it so far. And yes, ambitious is a good word for it. And yes, it does feel good which is why I am so worried about coming off, but I keep thinking of the time I was down so low that I didn't even realize I was on anything. I am currently taking 2mg per day and I plan to go down to 1mg next week and take it slow from there. I just wanted to come off so quickly, I was hasty in my stopping and it was just too much. It always has to be taken slow when it comes to this stuff. And as usual, we want instant grat. And yes, I always kept my tolerance to a minimum, I was never one to do a bundle a day. And I know what this stuff does to your health so instead of stopping, I just kept my doses low. But no matter now, it is time and I need to be clean from the subs. They have done their job, which was keeping me away from heroin for 7 years. The key is always time with opiates, in order to make your brain forget, at least as much as possible, the high feeling. And I cannot remember what the rush felt like. And that is a gift. But all it would take is ONE time taking pills, or a shot, just one and that 7 years is gone, down the drain and it's back to square one. That shit is strong, so strong. It is unbelievable what it does to your mind with just one dose. The sub is so mild, I like to compare it to being drunk, or a good coffee buzz. So that is easily forgotten by the brain. I am in a good place and I just need to keep chugging along, appreciating sobriety when it comes. Thanks again for your responses.
 
Thanks for the post Toothpastedog and yes, I cannot wait for my sex drive to be back. I feel so abnormal it's ridiculous. I like your advise on tapering, it is exactly what I'm doing. What I am doing in my life that I enjoy are just my hobbies as explained above and I also have a tree removal business that I do in the summer. I wish to go back to school, oh, the opportunities I threw away, I had so much and so many chances to have a great career! I have thrown them away over the years. I went to A&P school to be a jet mechanic and even had a job before I graduated. The night before we were supposed to fly to NC for a show, I decided to get high and there went that. This is only one example, there are many many others that I've ruined. So I feel that I do not even deserve anything that comes my way now and if it does, I look at it like a bonus. In other words, life owes me nothing and I am just a humble man grateful to be alive these days. Thanks again for your response.
 
Hi Again John-

I'm currently working on two routes towards getting back on track again. One is getting inpatient rehab. Which I feel would be very beneficial. I need the change of atmosphere and total concentration gained at inpatient treatment. I also need the plan-the medication detox plan. I'm not sure exactly how to detox and transition -period.

I'n feeling scattered tonight-I apoligize to anyone I'm confusing.

I also am looking into the Kratom as an at-home option and subs. I have no experience and very little knowledge w Kratom and the opinions are mixed. But I definitely would like to give this comfort med a chance

I've obtained 3.5 8mg sub strips. The plan is to cut them up and use lowest effective doses for comfort and as drama-free of an experience possible.

I'm prescribed and take gabapentin daily so it won't be as effective for w/d due to me being tolerant to it. I won't feel those pronounced soothing effects as others without a tolerance. I also may be getting some Tramadol. That's up in the air though.

I'm scared. I'm not going to lie. I've experienced two traumatic detoxes in jail - they've left me alot of fear. I experienced seizures w both detoxes-even though I don't drink alcohol or use benzos regularly or even often

Plus this latest batch of dope causes dysphoria horribly for me. Also some anxiety and panic. I've been using small amounts. Just enough so I'm not sick. It's very potent so great care must be taken w this. I mean more than usual as obviously care must always be used.

I'll get more into this later today. I'm going to go to bed. Im exhausted, worried and a little overwhelmed. Hope everyone has a peaceful night. -S.
 
There's a possibility you'll go onto bigger and better things, or that you'll still be into your hobbies. You might lose interest. It's hard to say.

Don't be afraid to quit. You can do it.
 
10Y, I hear you, detox is scary, I've done it in jail twice myself and it was horrible. But after 2.5 days, it was totally over just like that. I even took naltrexone once at home and it was over in about 12 hours. But it was like 4X worse. I thought I was going to die. Dope that gets you anxious? That's a first! Sounds awful! The subs can be used as a lone detox med. You won't feel a thing if you do it right. Since you only have 28mg, I wouldn't take anymore than needed. Don't fool yourself and tell yourself that you need a whole strip, or even half that. Try 2mg and see how you feel. If you can stabilize on 2mg, you have it made. You can have your detox over in a week or two. I detoxed using sub in Daytop. It was totally painless. Just remember, sub is very strong, VERY strong. You don't need much. There're people walking around on 18, 24mg only b/c the docs want their payday, and well, we're junkies and more is better, but the truth is, they DO NOT need that much. Nowhere near. Just act like it's the last bit of food and water that you have and you need to make it last. Also, wait until you are in full withdraw before taking it or you'll regret it. That naloxone will violently tear all of those sweet opiate induced endorphins off of your receptors and block anymore from connecting!

Also, inpatient rehab, if you have the opportunity to do that then that's what I'd go with. Like I said, time is the only cure to this brain addiction. You need to get as much time away from it as possible or your brain will haunt you until you seek what it wants. Strong people can do it I'm sure, but I was never strong when it came to an opiate high. I actually came up with a tool while I did a six month stint in jail. I swore that when I got out, every time my brain went 'there', I'd immediately push it out and think about all of the things I wanted to do/accomplish in my sober life. It worked, for a long time! But then I got cozy again and said, oh hell, I wanna party just one time! But that tool did work and it worked well. I knew that if I thought about it for more than say 5 seconds, it would have me. So I'd have like 5 seconds to delete the ponder. I called them ponders. lol. So when I caught myself pondering, I just thought of all the positive things I wanted for myself and believe me, I had pages of them written down. I'm sure we can all come up with pages of things we love and things we want, want to buy, want to do, etc. Just my 2 cents. . .
 
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Thanks captain, I appreciate the positive words. I know you're right and there's only one direction to move in. . .

p.s. your location is very sad :( Is that a poem or something?
 
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John, you will regain your interests man. It may even help you get through that bored stage. I've been working my ass off and it's really helping me. I'm also a machinist. What kinda machines are you running?
 
It is just as hard or harder kicking box than it is heroin in my opinion. Then again, I was forced into a cold turkey withdrawal. The first two weeks were horrible then the next couple months were still pretty bad. I couldn't believe it took that long to recover. I assume a taper would be much better though, hopefully. You may lose interest in things but I'm sure it will come back.
 
Change is hard but you've got this. As you said this is something that you have been interested in for a long time and even if you have to take a break for a bit while your body adjusts, eventually you'll come back. There is so much good to look forward to, just keep moving forward. Best of luck to you!
 
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