Mental Health Will i still be me? im begging for answers

[SixBuckets]

The OP wants to know if the meds will change their identity, which is what some people refer to as a soul - the core self. There are many ways people interpret who they really are - for example their occupation, their body type, personality, who they have sex with, etc. Neuroleptics such as risperidone destroy the limbic system and are often referred to as chemical lobotomies.

No they don't, at least not more than any other substance you might put in your body if you were the kind of person to visit a drug related harm reduction forum.

After taking neuroleptics people feel like zombies or robots - no emotions, no personality, no motivation, no pleasure.

The majority of people who take antipsychotic medication experience no side effects. Emotional blunting, as I said above, is a side effect. It doesn't happen to everyone and it doesn't happen with every medication.

I find it goes against harm reduction principles to tell people "if one med does not work you can always try another" (the mantra of the mental health industry at the moment it seems). The side effects from such meds are highly detrimental and often permanent.

The vast majority of medication side effects go away when you discontinue the drug.

Every time you try a new med you acquire more negative side effects which cannot be cured.

This is demonstrably false.

My advice would be to quit psychedelics and especially RC's. Stop smoking and drinking if you do. Focus on healing your brain naturally. This may occur if you give your own brain a chance by improving BDNF levels. Consume antioxidants (eg. green tea), get fresh air, exercise, eat fresh vegetables. Avoid saturated fats, high fructose corn syrups, refined sugars and stress. After 12 - 24 months you should be feeling much better. You won't feel much improvement straight away, just try to focus on each improvement as you notice it. Keeping a journal may help you with this.

I'm absolutely staggered that you're accusing other people of giving irresponsible advice when you're telling people to treat psychosis with green tea and fresh vegetables.

Look sixbuckets, I like you, but this post is nothing but an attempt to invalidate my experience.

I'm glad you like me. I have no firm opinion on you, but I appreciate the sentiment. I'm not sure why your post is so passively aggressively hostile, but it's a sensitive topic. I'm not invalidating your experience, though - I'm putting it in context.

Most of the regular posters have a lot of faith in psychiatry and often tout the benefits of psych drugs. My post was in the spirit of HR, which is the purpose of this forum.

I don't think it's harm reduction to tell people experiencing mental illness that if they take the medication prescribed for them by the doctor they will lose their emotions and want to kill themselves.

I also feel that my post was relatively balanced, and as you failed to pat me on the back for that, I will take care of that for you now.

That was actually pretty funny.

I recently found out my mom was taking xanax for a few weeks behind my back so you are not the only one that gets annoyed by my strong feelings about this stuff. Admittedly, my withdrawal form these drugs was shading my judgement and I am working on adjusting my approach so I can get my important message heard. One thing I have noticed about the people that fluff this stuff is that you act like someone's negative experience is a rare occurrence and is some freak reaction. It may be a minority of patients but certainly not insignificant.

You're right that it's not insignificant - awareness of side effects and potential negative reactions should be a part of everyone's informed decision whether or not to take medication. I completely support that. But negative experiences with medication that are as severe as what you're describing are a rare occurrence. It's irresponsible and dangerous to tell people these experiences are the inevitable result of treating their condition pharmacologically.

As far as side effects are concerned, statistical probabilities will mean jack shit for you if you find yourself confined to a wheel chair from TD.

Then you might as well stay in your house and never cross the road. Oh, wait, there's a slight statistical probability someone will drive a car into your house while you're in it, or that it might catch fire and burn down.

We all make decisions based on our assessment of how likely negative outcomes are all the time. This is part of being an adult human.

You seem to have a lot of faith in the ways that these substances make it to market.

I'm a pretty firm believer in the scientific method, statistical analysis of population health data and the academic peer review process, yes. I definitely have a lot more faith in those systems than in the 'internet horror story from individuals who universalise their experience' method.

I certainly do not and I don't trust pharmaceutical companies or the FDA at all and again, I have my own valid reasons for that.

There's trusting pharmaceutical companies and then there's being a conspiracy theorist about data on medication efficacy and side effect prevalence being essentially fraudulent.

Have a nice day.

I'm having a great day! I hope you are too.

 

[casual1]

If the OP wants to find out what Risperidone (Risperdal) can do see here: http://www.rxlist.com/risperdal-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Effects include drooling(ie. zombie/lobotomie), diminished cognition, breast tissue growth (limbic damage), blunted affect (limbic damage), parkinsonism and actual parkinsons(limbic damage). The Janssen site has the same info.

 

[silverwheel]

If the OP wants to find out what Risperidone (Risperdal) can do see here: http://www.rxlist.com/risperdal-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Effects include drooling(ie. zombie/lobotomie), diminished cognition, breast tissue growth (limbic damage), blunted affect (limbic damage), parkinsonism and actual parkinsons(limbic damage). The Janssen site has the same info.

Zombie/lobotomie is not at all the same thing as drooling, and is not a real side effect. You're misrepresenting the info on the site you mentioned. Moreover, you're taking the rare side effects and presenting them as common, which they are not. Every drug has the possibility of an adverse reaction, which is why one should stay in touch with their doctors while starting a new medication. It's one thing to share a negative personal experience with a drug, but you're trying to scare someone away from taking a medicine that their doctor believes will be beneficial.

 

[casual1]

Who are they testing these products on for clinical trials? People who are completely insensible after years of tests? Cadavers?

Have you, silverwheel or sixbuckets, ever met someone on risperidone? It ain't pretty - it is the most inhumane treatment I have personally witnessed.

Where did the OP's doctor get their information from? A sales rep from Janssen? The DSM? Neither of which are objective or independent sources. Janssen admitted to paying off DSM editors and other key opinion makers to promote Risperidone. They excused it as "standard industry practice" when accused of corruption.
It is not a conspriacy theory, see here:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/johns...ion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations

 

[Chatative]

Have you, silverwheel or sixbuckets, ever met someone on risperidone? It ain't pretty - it is the most inhumane treatment I have personally witnessed.

Have you ever been on risperidone? I have & my experiences don't reflect any of what you have posted at all. I certainly wouldn't refer to its use as inhumane. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but it seems to me you are surpassing that & simply scaremongering.

silverwheel hit the nail on the head. You are misrepresenting the information you are using. Although it is true there are some potentially troubling side effects from risperidone, as with all APs, that doesn't mean that they will effect everyone who takes the medication. With proper monitoring from a doctor these can be looked out for & minimized through either using the lowest effective dose, add-on medication or where necessary changing to another AP.

I can tell you that I have had some very bad experiences with APs yet at the same time I have had good experiences with others. When it comes to APs it is a balancing act between minimizing the side effects & trying to get symptoms under control. If you truly need APs then given the right medication & dose, they can considerably improve the quality of life for those that are on them. I fully understand that some people can have very bad experiences with APs but I believe this has a lot to do with the standard of care they are receiving from their doctors as often they are over-medicated & forced to stay on APs despite bad side effects.

 

[SixBuckets]

Who are they testing these products on for clinical trials? People who are completely insensible after years of tests? Cadavers?

Generally men aged 20 - 40, or thereabouts. Specific trials may have requirements around diagnosis inclusions and exclusions, requirements around previous treatment experience, or requirements around current symptoms. All clinical trials are vetted prior to commencing by safety and ethics committees - these committees don't demonstrate the trial is 'safe' or 'effective', but they do have to ensure that the potential benefit of the trial outweighs the risk.

Have you, silverwheel or sixbuckets, ever met someone on risperidone? It ain't pretty - it is the most inhumane treatment I have personally witnessed.

Risperidone isn't commonly prescribed in Australia, but I've met and worked with innumerable people on various other anti psychotics - all of which have a similar side effect profile - and few if any of those people could be described as lobotimised zombies.

Where did the OP's doctor get their information from? A sales rep from Janssen? The DSM? Neither of which are objective or independent sources. Janssen admitted to paying off DSM editors and other key opinion makers to promote Risperidone. They excused it as "standard industry practice" when accused of corruption.
It is not a conspriacy theory, see here:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/johns...ion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations

I'm not sure which country the OP is in, but psychiatrists in Australia don't have a great deal of interaction with pharmaceutical sales reps and aren't paid commissions for prescribing.

 

[herbavore]

I would just like to hop in and say that because the whole world of mental illness, mental imbalance, extreme states--whatever you prefer to call it--is a world in which people suffer and look for the best treatment to alleviate that suffering, there are bound to be strong opinions. Each of us usually has experiences that affect our perceptions at a very profound level. If we found alleviation of our symptoms through medications we tend to assume that most people will also. If we found a worsening of our symptoms through medications we tend to view them that way for everyone. Likewise with any other treatments (I'm thinking of the non-chemical therapies) it is a very subjective outcome. I believe that we can do more when we listen to each other, weigh their words and experiences against our own and draw this simple conclusion: our minds, like our bodies, are very different.

Carry on, good people.

 

[Erikmen]

^ I couldn't agree more!

 

[Erikmen]

Still on the subject I firmly believe in therapy where you can and will find the source of your problems eventually imo/e.

And when that happens, either you will know precisely what you'll need in regards to medication or simply learn how to live without them. We carry an incredible force within us and I see people investing less on themselves more and more often.

It's much easier to take a pill rather than going to a therapist for months or even years. But the outcome is fantastic. Besides you are never alone. You can always talk about your problems in a way that you learn yourself how to deal with most of our issues.

So unless you are deeply mentally ill. Therapy can do a lot of good. It did for me and in my opinion it can be done for others too. I've seen this happen with groups that worked their problems together with a professional. As I've mention, we tend to forget or underestimate how strong we are.

 

[RiseAgain]

I want to add that I have a lot of experience with these substances and I didn't realize what they were doing to me until I started to come off them. IMO they never help anyone and they are extremely toxic, but I won't go into that atm, plenty has already been said already and there is a lot of info on the internet.

I think APs and other psyche meds have their place, but using them for long term treatment is no different than lobotomizing people. Physche meds never solve anything, they just cover up symptoms and they should only be used in extreme cases for symptom management short term while the patient resolves their problems. Just like how benzodiazepines are used to mange symptoms of panic disorder while the disease is being treated. Or how if you broke your leg (the disease) you would use painkillers to manage the pain (the symptom) while your leg is being treated, when you cure the disease you cure the symptoms and you don't need the painkillers anymore.

Taking psyche meds can only make things worse in the long term. If you just used painkillers for your broken leg you would just keep covering up the symptoms while your leg is getting worse, and you can't cover up the symptoms forever.

Psysche meds don't treat any diseases, the just treat symptoms, and if keep using them you'll never be able to cure the disease. Do some research, like another poster said people who don't take psyche meds have better outcomes than those who do. There's even been studies that show countries that don't have access to psychiatric treatment have higher rates of recovery from mental illness (even severe schizophrenia) than countries that have access to psychiatric treatment. There's even a clear pattern across different countries showing that the more medication is intergrated into mental health care, the lower the rate of recovery. The US has one of the lowest rates of recovery from mental illness in the world. Do some research, take some time and connect the dots.

 

[SixBuckets]

6B, It wasn't my intention to be hostile towards you but I honestly felt like you were trying to minimize my experience which is pretty extensive with these substances. I admit, I still get plenty irritable and sometimes I feel like this withdrawal is never going to go away. Feeling hostile is one of the symptoms I deal with. I honestly don't even remember what it is like to feel normal. I started on SSRIs when I was 18, took a break for a while in my early 20s and then was medicated from 23 on (almost 32 now). Over time, the way that I reacted to these substances changed dramatically so I know that some of these substances do alter brain chemistry in some strange ways. I have no issue with people taking medication for mental illness and I love to see people get the help that they need. There is not a doubt in my mind that APs save lives. I don't believe that APs lobotomize people because for a period of time, zyprexa helped me tremendously. I hope that you understand that I am coming from a place of genuine concern for people. I love to see people get help, but I hate to see people harmed just as much. It's a difficult balance.

I believe that most people have good intentions in most situations, except for the people that are jerks. I don't think you're being a jerk.

My main issue is the substances that are currently available. They have the ability to be highly toxic, hard on your organs, and can have permanent side effects. They also have the ability to cause a dependency and a terrible withdrawal that can last many years.

I completely agree that this is true. However, most people being treated for mental illness have to make a very personal cost/benefit analysis as to whether these risks are "worse" than the effect of untreated mental illness. Sure, psych drugs can be hepatotoxic or cause elevated blood glucose, and people need to be aware of that, but a healthy liver and good glucose levels aren't much use to you if you jump in front of a train.

Sure you can monitor for these things, but for some people, you can't simply just stop taking the medication without disastrous results that flare up original symptoms and add to them. I have read of people that still aren't better after a decade. I have also encountered people that have permanent things going on that resemble neurological issues from these medicines. I know that some people need APs but I really don't see any benefit to an atypical over CBD. CBD has been shown to be just as effective as APs but isn't toxic to the body and has very few side effects. Yeah it is expensive, but it's worth avoiding some of the potential risks that come with some of these pharmaceuticals. There are other options available. You scoff at casual but you are highly mistaken if you don't believe that the food we eat has a direct effect on a person's mental health.

I do agree that food makes an impact on mental health - this is one of the reasons I tend to eat a low GI low sugar diet. I just don't think fish oil is going to make much of a difference to someone who is floridly psychotic or suicidally depressed.

I hope that in the future, the substances that become available will be much safer, because some people do need something, but I don't believe that the number of people that are on medication reflects the population accurately.

Agreed! And I hope that too. We are getting there, as much as the process is very slow.

The type of withdrawal that I am experiencing isn't very well understood or even acknowledged by the medical community. You can't just go to the hospital for a few weeks and go home. There really isn't much that they can do for you or I would have checked myself in a long time ago. After you destabilize yourself, you can't just start taking the medication again, it just doesn't work like that. There are really no drugs that you can take, because one your nervous system is over-sensitized pretty much any drug will make you worse. I can't even take a zantac or PPI without it fucking me up for a few days. I am constantly hot, my skin has this burning, flushing feeling all the time. I vomit almost every day, sometimes multiple times throughout the day. I have diarrhea everyday and nausea. I have developed something similar to tourettes where I have verbal tics. I will be going about my business and yell fuck and bitch uncontrollably and a few other key statements that I am too embarrassed to mention. This seems kind of permanent to me and I don't know if it will ever go away or not. It sounds kind of funny but it gets old for me. I have had tons of different symptoms that make my life a living hell day in and day out. I hate to see that happen to anybody because it's a really big deal.

I actually really empathise. Around two years ago, I developed fibromyalgia, and now have to deal with extreme fatigue and widespread pain on top of my bipolar symptoms. Medical professionals are all agreed that there's a link between bipolar and fibro, but no one can tell me what it is or if there's anything I could have done differently to reduce the risk of comorbidity. I can imagine that having similarly inexplicable symptoms related to medication would be frustrating and stressful.

I don't really understand how some people can operate with this sort-of emotional detachment when it comes to people being harmed. These are human lives we are talking about here and it saddens me deeply to see that happen to anyone. I am really working on being a lot more positive and friendly towards people, but I have been in some rough places for a long time. Some of these experiences have impacted me negatively but I am trying to turn that around. I hope that you understand where I am coming from when I try to warn people of these dangers. I really don't like to tell people to take drugs or not take drugs just offer up my experience so people can make informed decisions about how to approach their mental health issues.

I'm actually fiercely passionate about harm reduction and metal health - it's the field I work in, but I've been training and practicing it outside of a professional context since I was 15. Please don't think that because I disagree with your approach that I'm emotionally detached from the subject matter.

I think we're all agreed that equipping people to make informed decisions is a win for everyone involved.

I would just like to hop in and say that because the whole world of mental illness, mental imbalance, extreme states--whatever you prefer to call it--is a world in which people suffer and look for the best treatment to alleviate that suffering, there are bound to be strong opinions. Each of us usually has experiences that affect our perceptions at a very profound level. If we found alleviation of our symptoms through medications we tend to assume that most people will also. If we found a worsening of our symptoms through medications we tend to view them that way for everyone. Likewise with any other treatments (I'm thinking of the non-chemical therapies) it is a very subjective outcome. I believe that we can do more when we listen to each other, weigh their words and experiences against our own and draw this simple conclusion: our minds, like our bodies, are very different.

Carry on, good people.

 

[JessFR]

I've been medicated in many ways for mental illnesses.

Been in seroquel, lexapro, escitalopram, mirtazapine, valium, and cymbalta.

I usually don't have many side effects. The only serious side effect I might have had with the above is that I tried to commit suicide a month after starting lexapro. It's my opinion the lexapro wasn't responsible, but I can't be sure.

Apart from that the worst thing that happened with all of them were that several didn't work. And mirtazepine made me tired all day.
Cymbalta I've been largely stable on and credit for being better able to cope over the last few years.

I never felt like I had stopped being me on any of it. Take from that what you will, I haven't been on risperidone. Personally I wouldn't worry. You can always get off it and it's highly unlikely to have any permanent side effects, id say the minor unsubstantiated risk I worth the potential reward. Just be careful about possible suicidal ideation increasing on some drugs in some people.

I have no desire to frustrate and anger myself engaging with some of the stupider posts I've seen (mostly any that use the word 'toxic' or advocate diets to solve your problem when your problem isn't that you're fat or something), just to make it aware I doubt id agree with the antimedication people from what I've little I've seen here.

Just my experience. Good luck.

 

[RiseAgain]

Frustrated and angry? IMO you post is one of the most ignorant unbalanced post in this thread and you call people who disagree with you stupid?

Wasn't the whole point of this to share our experiences to help each other. And according to you anyone's experience that doesn't line up with your own is nonsensical? You might want to give some thought into what "stupidity" actually is, because clearly you're too stupid to understand it.

You even said you've never taken risperidone, yet somehow you know better than the people who have?

Stick to subjects that you have experience with and stop present ing your "opinion" as fact, especially when you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[casual1]

I don't consider myself stupid. For the record I was responding to the OP who stated they were trying to recover from a period of drug use which left them feeling a bit worse for wear. The OP did not state what they were diagnosed with psychosis. I was trying to suggest ways of helping the OP recover from the drug use, not suggesting psychosis can be cured with vegies. Norman Doidge's The Brain's Way of Healing is an excellent read - I highly recommend it.

Interesting you should mention the word "reward" in your post JessFR. That is part of the limbic system in the brain which is damaged by taking Risperidone. In short you will not feel any reward should you be on that drug.

 

[casual1]

Risperidone isn't commonly prescribed in Australia

Do you have any figures to back that up? All the stats I find state it is the most common or in the top three.

For example, here: http://www.cchr.org.au/component/content/article/228

 

[SixBuckets]

Do you have any figures to back that up? All the stats I find state it is the most common or in the top three.

For example, here: http://www.cchr.org.au/component/content/article/228

According to PBAC, the most commonly prescribed antipsychotic in Australia is quetiapine/Seroquel by a huge margin. This is the only antipsychotic of which prescriptions have increased in recent years, and they've increased by a lot. Risperidone is in the top three (at least, in middle aged adults - I can't find stats for other age ranges, which is a shame because I'm particularly interested in young adults) but it's third by a big gap and the number of risperidone prescriptions filled in recent years has decreased quite a bit.

So I guess it depends on what you mean by "commonly prescribed". According to the PBS data, we're putting pretty much everyone on Seroquel.

 

[SixBuckets]

(Can't get the quote to work, dang)

Thanks for that post 6B, I apologize for escalating things. I am a naturally passive person and sometimes in my attempts to be assertive, I either go aggressive or passive aggressive. I HATE being passive aggressive, so my bad. I think in the grand scheme of things, we agree on more than we disagree on, and that includes the other regulars in this forum. I think we can find a lot of common ground and reach some reasonable conclusions. I will try to be more balanced, and I know that what I am experiencing is on the rare side, just really hard. I will try to not let it cloud my judgement.

I am sorry to hear about your fibro, I know there isn't really much you can do for that and is very debilitating. I wish you the best.

Jess, I think you are misunderstanding my position if you are referring to me in that post. I am not anti-medication, I know some people need them and they benefit some people greatly. There are some serious risks with them that I believe are minimized. Most of my posts are concerning the medicines in question. Risperidone is one of the worst atypicals available and zoloft is pretty meh as far as being effective. I would avoid SSRIs bc even when they do work, it feels kinda weird, IME. Just my personal experience with them.

Cheers guys. Let's all try and get along. We all have different mental health issues and we will all find different ways of dealing with them, when it comes to what works for us.

All good!

 

[ebola?]

What is it to feel like one's self?

ebola

 

[bdomihizayka]

What is it to feel like one's self?

ebola

Why is it even important that you will still be "you"?

Who ARE you?