Will I ever be able to take opiates again after I wean off of subs?

[SincerelyBabette]

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong area, and I realize it is a fairly stupid question... but after looking online I couldn't really find the answer I was looking for.

Long story short, my situation is this, I ended up picking up H for 8 mo. straight, never blasted but still saw where it was going. I tried to quit cold turkey, and after a gnarly withdrawal (almost lost my job), relapsed and decided that I ought to go another route. Got a sub doctor (way over prescribed me at 16mg), and have since weaned down to my current dose of 1.5mg per day. Never relapsed since I started the subs.

My question is, after I successfully and completelt wean off of the subs, will I ever be able to take pain meds (or any other opiates) again without immediately going into w/ds after? And I mean like, months/years after.... not days after. Or has my brain chemistry completely changed forever?

I have oral surgery that I've been putting off for a year for that very reason. My pain tolerance is very low (which is part of the reason I got into this mess). Plus, previous to this mess, I did enjoy the occasional buzz.

Please, not looking for judgment or anything like that. This mostly comes from a place of curiosity and I am aware of the risks of temptation.

I just want to know, once I am done - completely free from any opiates - will it be like before I ever was addicted? Or has my body somehow changed.

Thanks for the info!

 

[sm0kestack]

It depends, really. There are factors, if you relapse right after weaning off suboxone, the bupe still stuck to your receptors will still have the blockade, and you'd just be making futile efforts to get high and think you're doing garbage dope when it really isn't, and do too much and risk ODing like that. Though, only being down to 1.5mg bupe may not have much of a blocking effect and you could still get high.

If you wean completely off the subs, then wait a while, like over a week or so, and having not used any other opiates in a long time, your tolerance will be way down, and you would risk OD. Best thing to do if you happen to use is, use a very small amount, a fraction of what you used when you were using and see what it does. Remember, you can always use more and redose, but you can't use too much, and take it back.

As for using another opiate throwing you directly back into WD, not likely, but continued use will prolly make having WD problems come quicker and harder to deal with. Youd find yourself back at square one when you were first using faster, higher tolerance quicker, and it is harder to quit again.

From opiate use, especially heavy and frequent use, your brain creates receptors. An opiate addict has a shitload more created receptors than an opiate naive individuals brain. When we stop using, these receptors don't just simply vanish right away, it takes a long time, they simply become inactive. When in active addiction these receptors constantly need filled. When in maintenance, like on suboxone, they are just calmed and pacified, when you go thru all the withdrawal, tapering, etc... These receptors get used to not needing their filling eventually. Get the idea?

Nobody is gonna judge you man, most of us here are addicts whether in recovery, recovered, in active addiction. Lot of us have had countless relapses and embarrassing fuck ups. Ya know? We can advise you not use, but trust us we know what you're going thru man, we suffer the same disease.

 

[getRocked]

you can use within 3 days since your last suboxone use without withdraws

 

[SincerelyBabette]

It depends, really. There are factors, if you relapse right after weaning off suboxone, the bupe still stuck to your receptors will still have the blockade, and you'd just be making futile efforts to get high and think you're doing garbage dope when it really isn't, and do too much and risk ODing like that. Though, only being down to 1.5mg bupe may not have much of a blocking effect and you could still get high.

If you wean completely off the subs, then wait a while, like over a week or so, and having not used any other opiates in a long time, your tolerance will be way down, and you would risk OD. Best thing to do if you happen to use is, use a very small amount, a fraction of what you used when you were using and see what it does. Remember, you can always use more and redose, but you can't use too much, and take it back.

As for using another opiate throwing you directly back into WD, not likely, but continued use will prolly make having WD problems come quicker and harder to deal with. Youd find yourself back at square one when you were first using faster, higher tolerance quicker, and it is harder to quit again.

From opiate use, especially heavy and frequent use, your brain creates receptors. An opiate addict has a shitload more created receptors than an opiate naive individuals brain. When we stop using, these receptors don't just simply vanish right away, it takes a long time, they simply become inactive. When in active addiction these receptors constantly need filled. When in maintenance, like on suboxone, they are just calmed and pacified, when you go thru all the withdrawal, tapering, etc... These receptors get used to not needing their filling eventually. Get the idea?

Nobody is gonna judge you man, most of us here are addicts whether in recovery, recovered, in active addiction. Lot of us have had countless relapses and embarrassing fuck ups. Ya know? We can advise you not use, but trust us we know what you're going thru man, we suffer the same disease.

Thank you, sm0kestack! That was just the information I needed. Ive been on subs for longer than I was on H now, and still only know what my pharmacist is willing to tell me. Maybe if you have good experience with subs you'd also be willing to answer one more question?

My doc wants me to jump at .5, but I want to go lower. Last time I just from .5 a mg, I definitely felt it. Any recommendations on a good dose to jump from?

Again, I really appreciate it! Hope you're happy in whatever your journey is as well!

 

[SincerelyBabette]

It depends, really. There are factors, if you relapse right after weaning off suboxone, the bupe still stuck to your receptors will still have the blockade, and you'd just be making futile efforts to get high and think you're doing garbage dope when it really isn't, and do too much and risk ODing like that. Though, only being down to 1.5mg bupe may not have much of a blocking effect and you could still get high.

If you wean completely off the subs, then wait a while, like over a week or so, and having not used any other opiates in a long time, your tolerance will be way down, and you would risk OD. Best thing to do if you happen to use is, use a very small amount, a fraction of what you used when you were using and see what it does. Remember, you can always use more and redose, but you can't use too much, and take it back.

As for using another opiate throwing you directly back into WD, not likely, but continued use will prolly make having WD problems come quicker and harder to deal with. Youd find yourself back at square one when you were first using faster, higher tolerance quicker, and it is harder to quit again.

From opiate use, especially heavy and frequent use, your brain creates receptors. An opiate addict has a shitload more created receptors than an opiate naive individuals brain. When we stop using, these receptors don't just simply vanish right away, it takes a long time, they simply become inactive. When in active addiction these receptors constantly need filled. When in maintenance, like on suboxone, they are just calmed and pacified, when you go thru all the withdrawal, tapering, etc... These receptors get used to not needing their filling eventually. Get the idea?

Nobody is gonna judge you man, most of us here are addicts whether in recovery, recovered, in active addiction. Lot of us have had countless relapses and embarrassing fuck ups. Ya know? We can advise you not use, but trust us we know what you're going thru man, we suffer the same disease.

And I was definitely thinking like, a while after I'm done with subs... like months downthe road. As previously mentioned, my tolerance to discomfort is that of a newborn baby's lol.... so I definitely dont want to test going into w/ds again!

 

[Erikmen]

From opiate use, especially heavy and frequent use, your brain creates receptors. An opiate addict has a shitload more created receptors than an opiate naive individuals brain. When we stop using, these receptors don't just simply vanish right away, it takes a long time, they simply become inactive. When in active addiction these receptors constantly need filled. When in maintenance, like on suboxone, they are just calmed and pacified, when you go thru all the withdrawal, tapering, etc... These receptors get used to not needing their filling eventually.

Nobody is gonna judge you man, most of us here are addicts whether in recovery, recovered, in active addiction. Lot of us have had countless relapses and embarrassing fuck ups. Ya know? We can advise you not use, but trust us we know what you're going thru man, we suffer the same disease.

This!

 

[sm0kestack]

Thank you, sm0kestack! That was just the information I needed. Ive been on subs for longer than I was on H now, and still only know what my pharmacist is willing to tell me. Maybe if you have good experience with subs you'd also be willing to answer one more question?

My doc wants me to jump at .5, but I want to go lower. Last time I just from .5 a mg, I definitely felt it. Any recommendations on a good dose to jump from?

.5mg seems like a small enough dose to jump from, but the goal is to wind up taking as little as possible and less often as possible down to 0. It's hard to say whether you will some discomfort, or little to none at all. In my experiences though, jumping off suboxone at small, small doses like that has been fairly easy, only dealing with very mild symptoms. Nothing agonizing at all.

 

[Prescottdave]

05 mg is twice the amount given SL to stage 4 cancer patients for around the clock pain management. If you can taper to 0.25 or lower the jump will be much smoother. Dr Scanlon wrote a good detox approach to getting off sub and suggests going lower then 0.5 mg if you can stick it out. The article is titled, "Detoxing from suboxone-fear is caused by lack of knowledge." In general for the rest of your life your body will quickly build tolerance to opiates and WD symptoms will manifest after 3-7 days of use. Now if you get hospitalized and have to use pain meds you can work with the medical staff to be closely monitored and properly medicated as well as tapered to safely and "comfortably" get off.

 

[SincerelyBabette]

.5mg seems like a small enough dose to jump from, but the goal is to wind up taking as little as possible and less often as possible down to 0. It's hard to say whether you will some discomfort, or little to none at all. In my experiences though, jumping off suboxone at small, small doses like that has been fairly easy, only dealing with very mild symptoms. Nothing agonizing at all.

Yeah, it seems hard to tell how it will be unless you've done it yourself already. I scour drug forums looking for peoples past experience and they report such wildly different experiences.

I guess the only good thing is that I've more than a few subs squirriled away for a rainy day, so if I test the waters and it's too much, I can always backpedal. Probably gonna be hard to resist the temptation of just taking em anyway, when you're feeling kind of crappy. I'm thinking I'll give them to the boyfriend when the time comes, and he can dispense to me so I dont crack and overdo it.

While tapering down this far I've definitely had some bad weeks, nothing even SLIGHTLY close to what an actual w/d feels like, but for me the anticipation is what kills me.

I completely believe people when they say they have ptsd-like trauma associated with withdrawaling off of dope.... Never really ever thought I was gonna die like that before, even if I wasnt physically in danger of dying... it's real af...

That being said, hearing things like what you've had to say is comforting and reassuring.

Im in a constant battle. With opiates, I'm like a bird stuck in a bird cage, I just want to take my life back... but at the same time, that shit's unforgettable ... like a taste of chocolate when all you've ever had is dirt.

Pandora's box, completely. I wish I was one of those who didn't prefer the buzz.... anyway, I'm rambling. Thank you, sm0kestack, I really do appreciate being able to talk to someone who knows better. I cut ties with all my old dope friends, and I had only used for nearly a year, so there's a lot I just dont know.

 

[SincerelyBabette]

05 mg is twice the amount given SL to stage 4 cancer patients for around the clock pain management. If you can taper to 0.25 or lower the jump will be much smoother. Dr Scanlon wrote a good detox approach to getting off sub and suggests going lower then 0.5 mg if you can stick it out. The article is titled, "Detoxing from suboxone-fear is caused by lack of knowledge." In general for the rest of your life your body will quickly build tolerance to opiates and WD symptoms will manifest after 3-7 days of use. Now if you get hospitalized and have to use pain meds you can work with the medical staff to be closely monitored and properly medicated as well as tapered to safely and "comfortably" get off.

Wow, very concise! Thank you! And holy shit... in as little as 3 days??? ?? It's crazy how well your body remembers things that you've done to it.

And yeah, I guess so, however I will admit I sometimes doubt docs in the U.S.'s ability or willingness to correctly wean people off.... I've met people and had otherwise heard more than a couple horror stories where people just plain have the rugs pulled from under their feet, and then they're either suffering or on the street looking for another alternative. It's what I would have done when the pharmacy messed my script up while my doc was out of town, had I not had some saved up...

Anyway, what I mean is after I'm done with this I'd rather not depend on another doctor in the same way I have to do now.

You did answer my question tho! I think I'll try for lower and then do the every other day, then every three day method. But I'll check out that article!

 

[Keif' Richards]

We can't speak for every man specifically. We're not going to globalize and say that responsible Opioid use, post-addiction is impossible. Generally, all statistics have "outliers", that is, data which seems to defy the normal pattern. This is true for just about anything. Some people can drink a fifth of liquor every day for years and quit with no withdrawal symptoms; some win the lottery etc. The cold truth about addiction is that to return to "normal" or "responsible" drug use, you need to be one of these outliers.

It is highly unlikely for any addict to return to substance use without becoming re-addicted and dependent. Don't kid yourself. I used to think it was possible and that I would be different than everyone else; better or more capable and it just doesn't work that way. Your "addiction" itself, that part of your psyche that craves drugs so badly, is exactly what fills us up with the false hope. We really want it to be able to work out, but having this blaise attitude, that you can hadle a drug like Heroin somehow, can lead you down a path of destruction. You're better off to respect the power of the drug, accept your addiction and to plan accordingly. This "I can fix it, later" mentality is another cornerstone of addiction that will fuck you.

Be realistic. I think you already knew the answer to your question before you posted. Unfortunately, we can't give you the reassurance that I think you're looking for. One thing that almost everyone agrees upon, on both sides of the fence, is that addiction is permanent. I think abstinence gets easier with time, but cravings for Opioids are a constant feature of my day to day life, and I'm on Methadone, so that's saying something about the power of this shit.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

We can't speak for every man specifically. We're not going to globalize and say that responsible Opioid use, post-addiction is impossible. Generally, all statistics have "outliers", that is, data which seems to defy the normal pattern. This is true for just about anything. Some people can drink a fifth of liquor every day for years and quit with no withdrawal symptoms; some win the lottery etc. The cold truth about addiction is that to return to "normal" or "responsible" drug use, you need to be one of these outliers.

It is highly unlikely for any addict to return to substance use without becoming re-addicted and dependent. Don't kid yourself. I used to think it was possible and that I would be different than everyone else; better or more capable and it just doesn't work that way. Your "addiction" itself, that part of your psyche that craves drugs so badly, is exactly what fills us up with the false hope. We really want it to be able to work out, but having this blaise attitude, that you can hadle a drug like Heroin somehow, can lead you down a path of destruction. You're better off to respect the power of the drug, accept your addiction and to plan accordingly. This "I can fix it, later" mentality is another cornerstone of addiction that will fuck you.

Be realistic. I think you already knew the answer to your question before you posted. Unfortunately, we can't give you the reassurance that I think you're looking for. One thing that almost everyone agrees upon, on both sides of the fence, is that addiction is permanent. I think abstinence gets easier with time, but cravings for Opioids are a constant feature of my day to day life, and I'm on Methadone, so that's saying something about the power of this shit.

I agree with everything posted here. If you believe you can use opiates again recretionally you're just kidding yourself, playing with fire, and begging for a relapse. I know a lot of people who did get addicted to opiates both dope/heroin, and some were just into pharmaceutical ones. A lot of times they would get clean/sober from all of them and then delude themselves into believing that they could take them pharmaceutical based ones in low doses and the next thing they knew they were using heroin either again, or started to use it.

I was never physically addicted to opiates; but I still do crave them at times, it shows up very randomly such as in a dream, or I'll just find myself getting nostalgic about nodding on them, and I have not used any in over a decade. I also never took them in high doses or used any besides pharmaceutical opiates.

Stay safe everyone.

 

[SincerelyBabette]

We can't speak for every man specifically. We're not going to globalize and say that responsible Opioid use, post-addiction is impossible. Generally, all statistics have "outliers", that is, data which seems to defy the normal pattern. This is true for just about anything. Some people can drink a fifth of liquor every day for years and quit with no withdrawal symptoms; some win the lottery etc. The cold truth about addiction is that to return to "normal" or "responsible" drug use, you need to be one of these outliers.

It is highly unlikely for any addict to return to substance use without becoming re-addicted and dependent. Don't kid yourself. I used to think it was possible and that I would be different than everyone else; better or more capable and it just doesn't work that way. Your "addiction" itself, that part of your psyche that craves drugs so badly, is exactly what fills us up with the false hope. We really want it to be able to work out, but having this blaise attitude, that you can hadle a drug like Heroin somehow, can lead you down a path of destruction. You're better off to respect the power of the drug, accept your addiction and to plan accordingly. This "I can fix it, later" mentality is another cornerstone of addiction that will fuck you.

Be realistic. I think you already knew the answer to your question before you posted. Unfortunately, we can't give you the reassurance that I think you're looking for. One thing that almost everyone agrees upon, on both sides of the fence, is that addiction is permanent. I think abstinence gets easier with time, but cravings for Opioids are a constant feature of my day to day life, and I'm on Methadone, so that's saying something about the power of this shit.

Thanks for your input.

 

[sm0kestack]

I have "chipped" with heroin use before, following that "don't use 3 days" in a row. I made it for about 11 months one time after having served a 1 year prison stint as a direct result of my addiction. I would use for a couple days, then take a break for a week or 2, then do it again. I managed to avoid any bad withdrawal symptoms. Eventually though, the black holes gravity sucked me in. I was back at it full blown again. Wound up serving another prison term.

It just tells me I can't do that, even after just one use, after the high wears off, I may not suffer physical withdrawal, but I will become depressed, and crave to get that high back. I become extremely vulnerable to keep using more.

This is just me though. Like mentioned above, there are outliers that can do it, but me being a "garden variety" drug addict, I don't fall in that margin. Every time I go on runs, it gets harder and harder to stop, and tolerance rises so quickly. I really do wish I never started this shit.

 

[Soulgasm]

Personally, I'd jump off at like 0.1mg or the tiniest sliver I could see per day or per other day. Your opioid receptors will be super sensitive to regaining tolerance and dependence afterwards (especially the first month or so) so use extreme caution. And that doesn't even take into account the psychological side of things. I would just kiss opioids goodbye afterwards and never look back but tis hard I know.