Will i ever be able to control my opiate use again

[Xorkoth]

Hey man, about the relapse, don't beat yourself up over it, it happens. Plus, man are you lucky it didn't restart your sickness, this is best case relapse scenario. You should be very proud that you left it at a single 20mg oxy, good job.

Are you able to quit using benzos now that you don't have sickness anymore? At least stop using them daily, and maybe only when you absolutely can't handle the anxiety? You really don't want a benzo dependence (which of course you know). Do you know if you have a benzo dependence yet? If you don't, I can't recommend strongly enough to make sure you don't get one.

 

[Mafioso]

Thank you for this, I do live in a pretty liberal city if i do some googling I might even be able to find na groups for atheists or just non god related . Unfortunately since I have made this post i relapsed but not back into a binge , I only took 20 mg of oxycodone and I actually got high as fuck surprisingly, that was 2 days ago and I have remained sober since, and I want to continue to not use them. But I am now facing a new dilemma. .. as my opiate use gets better my benzo use is getting worse. I have an anxiety disorder and PTSD so there are times I take it for those symptoms but other times it's too escape, I get perscribed enough lorazapam to take it everyday and be dependent legally at 18 but I try not to take it everyday because I'm so scared of how bad my anxiety will be during benzo withdrawl . Since I've gotten off the oxy , I ran through almost my entire script because it was so helpful during withdrawl and I had to buy Xanax off the streets till my next refill . Really struggling now to not take ativan or Xanax everyday

One thing I am wondering though is do they consider perscribed meds as being clean at na ?

Abuse and addiction are a little different than dependence.

Some people may disagree, but if you are using it as prescribed for a legitimate use, then it wouldn't be considered abuse or addiction, although there may be some aspects of dependence going on. A big part of addiction is not being able to control or regulate use, so I would say if you are taking it only as prescribed then you are able to control you use. Some may not consider this clean, but you wouldn't be considered addicted. Given you have a legitimate reason for use and didn't go pill shopping, I would consider that being clean.

That being said, a prescription doesn't justify uncontrolled use. If you feel it is problematic or there are warning signs, then it is something that needs to be addressed.

As far as relapsing goes, in the bigger picture it isn't a big deal. It is more important you focus on where you are headed rather than a little bump in the road behind you.

 

[Ganja Gremlin]

Abuse and addiction are a little different than dependence.

Some people may disagree, but if you are using it as prescribed for a legitimate use, then it wouldn't be considered abuse or addiction, although there may be some aspects of dependence going on. A big part of addiction is not being able to control or regulate use, so I would say if you are taking it only as prescribed then you are able to control you use. Some may not consider this clean, but you wouldn't be considered addicted. Given you have a legitimate reason for use and didn't go pill shopping, I would consider that being clean.

That being said, a prescription doesn't justify uncontrolled use. If you feel it is problematic or there are warning signs, then it is something that needs to be addressed.

As far as relapsing goes, in the bigger picture it isn't a big deal. It is more important you focus on where you are headed rather than a little bump in the road behind you.

Never liked benzos much till I developed ptsd and anxiety , I would trade in my benzo script for a life free of ptsd/trauma/anxiety in an instant if i could . I remember trying them a few times a few years ago messing around in my grandparents medicine cabinet and I didn't like how they made me felt , then back in July a doctor in the hospital gave me some ativan and it was just so damn freeing. They have helped me a lot, before I got my script it had gotten to the point where I would hide in my closet holding my tazer from fear . I take more than my perscribed dose sometimes because it doesn't always work for the kind of anxiety I have and I honestly think my dosage needs to be adjusted but of course I don't tell this to my doctors because I feel lucky to already get these meds at my age. I'm not sure if i abuse them , even with the Xanax I just take what I figure equals my usual lorazapam dose . My anxiety really had made my world feel so small and benzos do help me to just feel like my old self. I would probably not mention to people in NA that im on benzos though cuz I can see how that might trigger someone trying to get clean off them .

 

[Mafioso]

I can relate to what you mean when you say they are "freeing". I've been diagnosed with PTSD relating to childhood trauma. I always felt like benzos allowed me to function in a way that I see most other people functioning- free from all the senseless fear and anxiety. I was never prescribed benzos though and probably related to that fact, I have always had trouble controlling my consumption and use. I've taken around 10-20mg of alprazolam, dosing 4-8mg at a time, on top of Ativan, opioids and other drugs. Of course, at that dose the effects became much less therapeutic and more "recreational" if you will. I probably should have seen a doctor before my addiction took over my life, but I am the type to avoid doctors until I have no choice. I remember when I first started taking them in low to moderate doses that I would feel like a weight was lifted and I could do things without all the nagging anxiety.

I would just advise you to be cautious and conscientious about your use. By definition, the difference from use and abuse has a lot to do with whether the drug has been prescribed and if you are following your prescription. If you are using a drug that hasn't been prescribed to you or in a manner that isn't prescribed it would be considered a form of abuse. In all practicality, the definition is a little rigid but I think it is good to be mindful of your habits and to put strict limitations of the use of substances with potential for addiction.

Hopefully you can find other means for coping and managing other than benzos. They come with some pretty nasty side effects and can make some of the original symptoms worse. It's good that they are helping you but I think that finding other means of coping is essential to improving your quality of life in the long run. Cognitive behavioral therapy really helped me understand and manage my thoughts and relating emotions without the use of drugs. Due to the fact that I've been to jail and rehab because of drugs I doubt I will ever be prescribed something like benzos or opiates and I've been learning to cope without drugs. It's not easy but it is very rewarding. All in time though.

 

[Ganja Gremlin]

Hey man, about the relapse, don't beat yourself up over it, it happens. Plus, man are you lucky it didn't restart your sickness, this is best case relapse scenario. You should be very proud that you left it at a single 20mg oxy, good job.

Are you able to quit using benzos now that you don't have sickness anymore? At least stop using them daily, and maybe only when you absolutely can't handle the anxiety? You really don't want a benzo dependence (which of course you know). Do you know if you have a benzo dependence yet? If you don't, I can't recommend strongly enough to make sure you don't get one.

Thanks and I'm trying to taper back down with my benzos , I'm a bit worried I'm dependant , but worst case scenario with those I'll just tell my doctor if i really need to get off and they can help taper me off slowly since they were the ones who started me on them in the first place.

And I know i was pretty proud of myself for not dosing again with the oxy , god damn how my tolerance did go down though ...

 

[Ganja Gremlin]

I can relate to what you mean when you say they are "freeing". I've been diagnosed with PTSD relating to childhood trauma. I always felt like benzos allowed me to function in a way that I see most other people functioning- free from all the senseless fear and anxiety. I was never prescribed benzos though and probably related to that fact, I have always had trouble controlling my consumption and use. I've taken around 10-20mg of alprazolam, dosing 4-8mg at a time, on top of Ativan, opioids and other drugs. Of course, at that dose the effects became much less therapeutic and more "recreational" if you will. I probably should have seen a doctor before my addiction took over my life, but I am the type to avoid doctors until I have no choice. I remember when I first started taking them in low to moderate doses that I would feel like a weight was lifted and I could do things without all the nagging anxiety.

I would just advise you to be cautious and conscientious about your use. By definition, the difference from use and abuse has a lot to do with whether the drug has been prescribed and if you are following your prescription. If you are using a drug that hasn't been prescribed to you or in a manner that isn't prescribed it would be considered a form of abuse. In all practicality, the definition is a little rigid but I think it is good to be mindful of your habits and to put strict limitations of the use of substances with potential for addiction.

Hopefully you can find other means for coping and managing other than benzos. They come with some pretty nasty side effects and can make some of the original symptoms worse. It's good that they are helping you but I think that finding other means of coping is essential to improving your quality of life in the long run. Cognitive behavioral therapy really helped me understand and manage my thoughts and relating emotions without the use of drugs. Due to the fact that I've been to jail and rehab because of drugs I doubt I will ever be prescribed something like benzos or opiates and I've been learning to cope without drugs. It's not easy but it is very rewarding. All in time though.

Damn I can't even imagine getting off 10-20mgs a day of xans that sounds like hell I feel you on avoiding doctors if possible , I have done that for years before and it left me in a horrible mental and physical state. I unfortunately have to go to a mental health perscriber once a month, have 2 therapy appointments a week, then depending on on my physical health with my eating disorder my contact with my doctor ranges from full hospitalization, once a week visits or if I'm really lucky like right now since I've been maintaining 95 pounds I only have to go once a month unless i start loosing weight.

I don't tell my doctors about any of my drug use , I just say I sometimes smoke weed (legal state) .I had one doctor be an ass about prescribing me benzos, saying it's just a bandaid medication and I'm too young for them but I went elsewhere and got them from a new doc. It sucks that just because people have had had pasts with drug abuse they have to either not get perscribed meds to help them, or lie about the use so they can still get them.


I'm thinking about asking to switch to valium or klonopin though, I heard valium stays in your system the longest and makes baseline anxiety lower. But yeah I really don't wanna become dependant on these and I'm realizing one day my doctors gonna probably taper me off them

 

[ShroomySatori]

Your use was never controllable to begin with. Get real, you should never use again and that disgusting psychoactive doesn't mean shit anyway.

Thinking of my history with it just brought me to tears.

 

[Mafioso]

As far as I know, most benzodiazepines are not intended for long term use/prescriptions. They are mostly intended for short term use to assist in coping with anxiety related disorders. This is not always the case, but I believe this is why most doctors will not continue to prescribe them for long periods of time. I think the intention is to use medication to help manage severe symptoms until they either begin to dissipate or the individual learns to manage and cope by means other than medication. Benzos can be pretty dangerous and have some serious side effects, it's not something you want to take for the rest of your life if you can help it.

I hope things get better for you, it sounds like you are going through a very difficult time. Trauma may never leave us, but we don't have to let it define who we are and how we live. There will always be things in this life that our beyond our control, but one thing we do control is how we respond to the uncontrollable.

Feel free to PM me if you need to talk to someone. I may not have all the answers but I will listen and try to understand as best I can.

 

[swilow]

Benzo's are ultimately not especially useful for anxiety, in the long term at least. Every single time I have used benzo's extensively I get the obvious short-term anxiolyis followed by a deepening of my baseline anxiety. They are remarkably able to morph relatively minor anxiety into a much deeper and really horrifying state of panic, plus I think the ongoing emotional blunting makes moving forward in life, motivating oneself really difficult. I am incredibly thankful I am off them now. But I am also glad they exist as they can be distinctly needed, from time to time as little as possible.

 

[MeDieViL]

Ive been going to NA myself for legal highs, they dont talk about jesus just a higher power, which can be whatever in your own understanding, they make it clear here that they arent affilated with any religious organisations.

Keep coming back man...

 

[Mafioso]

Benzo's are ultimately not especially useful for anxiety, in the long term at least. Every single time I have used benzo's extensively I get the obvious short-term anxiolyis followed by a deepening of my baseline anxiety. They are remarkably able to morph relatively minor anxiety into a much deeper and really horrifying state of panic, plus I think the ongoing emotional blunting makes moving forward in life, motivating oneself really difficult. I am incredibly thankful I am off them now. But I am also glad they exist as they can be distinctly needed, from time to time as little as possible.

I would agree entirely. I am pretty sure most anxiolytics list anxiety as one of the side effects. Initially it helps, but by whatever mechanism, it makes things worse in the long run. I was going through all sorts of anxiety when I was taking 10-20mg alprazolam and xmg of lorazepam daily. Quitting was fucking hell, but since them my emotions have leveled out and I find my anxiety to be much more manageable. When using heavily I became agoraphobic and could hardly step outside without freaking if I didn't have pills.

I would guess it has something to do with tolerance and normal levels of GABA neurotransmitters in the brain.

 

[Xorkoth]

Like any drugs, chronic use of benzos downregulates the receptor system(s) they hit, which, for benzos, is GABA-A. When receptors are upregulated, it means that your body attains homeostasis with the expectation of having the supplemental GABA-A stimulation. Basically, your body produces less of its own enodgenous GABA, which means that without constant benzo stimulation, your anxiety levels will skyrocket since your body can no longer deal with it on its own. That's why withdrawals from drugs happen, and in the case of benzos/alcohol/GABA drugs, too little GABA can actually cause you to seize. And it will certainly make it impossible to live a normal life, until your body readjusts.

 

[Mafioso]

Well said Xorkoth, very good explanation.

 

[LopLover]

When people say "give it up to god" or "surrender to a higher power", I interpret it as meaning that human understanding is limited, there will always be forces in the world that are beyond comprehension. As an individual, you do not need to understand everything or everyone.

Mafioso, thank you for that quote. I found it quite enlightening and beautiful and will add it to the things that help keep me centered. After many years of addiction, depression, suicidal ideation and attempts, and a thorough 'dark night of the soul,' as some philosophers phrase it, I found a life worth living by combining my own spiritual beliefs into the 12-Step format with long-term Suboxone maintenance. What I've done wouldn't work for many people, as many 12-Steppers are against MAT, many proponents of maintenance-based treatment are opposed to 12-Step, some AA/NA groups are rabidly Christian, blah blah blah. It probably helps that I'm now old enough and with enough decades of experience with addiction and attempts at recovery that I really, truly do not give a shit what anyone thinks of me. I also continue to study comparative religions and belief systems, and my spirituality is a bit of a 'mosaic'--a quote I stole from a friend, as I use whatever works for me and leave on the shelf anything that doesn't.

Ganja Gremlin, I understand your dilemma, as I've faced it my entire life. I can't help but look back over my 64 years, after beginning drug use at 12 and heroin addiction at 18, and want to give you advice so that you don't have to make the mistakes I did. So if I sound like your mother, sorry, I can't tell you what to do with your current problem, but going forward I have a couple of points for you to ponder. It sounds like you are one of the people with brain chemistry like mine, that opiates do something for that, while we can't really explain it, know it exists. For me much of the effect is physical, because I've always been, at least until about my 40's, pretty sedentary.

The only thing that gives me physical and mental energy, and makes me feel "good" besides opiates, is exercise. That's the ONLY way, besides drugs (and maybe sex--it never worked for me, but other people say it does the "thing" for them, but even if, you can only have so much of that...) that you can force your body and brain to make the natural opiates, endorphins, that are what make people feel good on the natch. (Does that expression date me? ) It's also a great way to meet people and interact with other people who are seeking to live healthy lives. Some will be ex-addicts and most will just be regular people. A lot of them will be shy and have a hard time meeting people and making friends. Having an activity that's positive to bond around really lets the walls down.

Two other quick points: One is that I love that you have a cat. I have pet rabbits, which some people find weird, but they are cool companions as well. You really have to work at getting them to like you, so it can be time-consuming if you want it to be. Cats are better at cuddling, but just as interesting... The other is that if your depression drags on, you might want to get checked out by a psychologist or psychiatrist. It's really not possible to tell if a person has actual depressive illness (the kind that is best treated by medication) until they've been clean and sober at least six months, but in my case the reason I could never stay clean was that I hated myself and the way I felt all the time so much that I had to self-medicate to stay alive. Eventually I was diagnosed and treated, and that paved the way for me to find recovery. The caution is that often people get evaluated too early, when they're still going through PAWS--post-acute withdrawal syndrome, which lasts a year or two--and some pill-pusher puts them on meds they don't need.

So even when I say if you stay depressed, get checked out, if you do, go slow, find a doctor that's an expert in treating recovering addicts, and ask a lot of questions. I almost just deleted this whole part, because it can be a dangerous topic, but it's also an important one. So many people stay on drugs even though it's damaging their health and taking from their quality of life, because it's so painful for them, existentially, to NOT medicate. Good luck with your future.

 

[swilow]

^A great and useful post. It always gives me heart hearing of other long term opiate addicts in recovery.

 

[someguyoz]

I can relate to what you mean when you say they are "freeing". I've been diagnosed with PTSD relating to childhood trauma. I always felt like benzos allowed me to function in a way that I see most other people functioning- free from all the senseless fear and anxiety. I was never prescribed benzos though and probably related to that fact, I have always had trouble controlling my consumption and use. I've taken around 10-20mg of alprazolam, dosing 4-8mg at a time, on top of Ativan, opioids and other drugs. Of course, at that dose the effects became much less therapeutic and more "recreational" if you will. I probably should have seen a doctor before my addiction took over my life, but I am the type to avoid doctors until I have no choice. I remember when I first started taking them in low to moderate doses that I would feel like a weight was lifted and I could do things without all the nagging anxiety.

I would just advise you to be cautious and conscientious about your use. By definition, the difference from use and abuse has a lot to do with whether the drug has been prescribed and if you are following your prescription. If you are using a drug that hasn't been prescribed to you or in a manner that isn't prescribed it would be considered a form of abuse. In all practicality, the definition is a little rigid but I think it is good to be mindful of your habits and to put strict limitations of the use of substances with potential for addiction.

Hopefully you can find other means for coping and managing other than benzos. They come with some pretty nasty side effects and can make some of the original symptoms worse. It's good that they are helping you but I think that finding other means of coping is essential to improving your quality of life in the long run. Cognitive behavioral therapy really helped me understand and manage my thoughts and relating emotions without the use of drugs. Due to the fact that I've been to jail and rehab because of drugs I doubt I will ever be prescribed something like benzos or opiates and I've been learning to cope without drugs. It's not easy but it is very rewarding. All in time though.

Could not agree more. I also had childhood trauma, PTSD, anorexia, depression, anxiety so bad my heart rate did not go under 130bpm for 3 years. As well as a 11 year heroin addiction. In Australia benzos are rarely given as any kind of routine treatment and are on a restricted schedule, so I was never medicated with them and bore the full brunt of my pain without release (until the self-medication with smack)

When I came out of that addiction (Australia's heroin drought of 2000), I developed a severe chronic pain problem that I've had for the last 16 years...and all I can do to try and assauge it and the mental issues I still had existing was with CBT/DBT therapy and mindfulness, which the hospital pain clinic helps patients with. Seriously if you continue to rely on benzos its a slippery slope as far as asking yourself what is your life going to be like when you're older...I'm 50 now and lost all my youth to mental hospital admissions and then heroin use. Only coming out of it at 32 and then being crippled by this condition has taught me that I need to radically change my thinking and viewpoint as no substance is going to help me in the long run.

 

[Ganja Gremlin]

Your use was never controllable to begin with. Get real, you should never use again and that disgusting psychoactive doesn't mean shit anyway.

Thinking of my history with it just brought me to tears.

What do you mean exactly by the disgusting psychoactive ?

 

[Ganja Gremlin]

Could not agree more. I also had childhood trauma, PTSD, anorexia, depression, anxiety so bad my heart rate did not go under 130bpm for 3 years. As well as a 11 year heroin addiction. In Australia benzos are rarely given as any kind of routine treatment and are on a restricted schedule, so I was never medicated with them and bore the full brunt of my pain without release (until the self-medication with smack)

When I came out of that addiction (Australia's heroin drought of 2000), I developed a severe chronic pain problem that I've had for the last 16 years...and all I can do to try and assauge it and the mental issues I still had existing was with CBT/DBT therapy and mindfulness, which the hospital pain clinic helps patients with. Seriously if you continue to rely on benzos its a slippery slope as far as asking yourself what is your life going to be like when you're older...I'm 50 now and lost all my youth to mental hospital admissions and then heroin use. Only coming out of it at 32 and then being crippled by this condition has taught me that I need to radically change my thinking and viewpoint as no substance is going to help me in the long run.

I also have anorexia, I've been struggling for years and been in and out of treatment for the past couple years. I think my new perscriber is kinda worried about my benzo use now cuz I told her I've been taking the ativan everyday and it's not working as well anymore. She switched me to valium and said I should look into long term effects of benzos and try to cut down on my use I still have enough to take everyday but now with the valium it's just once a day . I'm trying some other meds to see if they can help me so I can cut my use. The docs saying i need to eventually only take benzos 2-3 times a week.

I've been expiercing withdrawl when I don't take them now but I am completely clean off opiates now , I think it's been 3 weeks since I used and before that I had some clean time too. I still do miss the painkillers but It is nice saving money not buying them

 

[Mafioso]

I think "disgusting psychoactive" was referring to the benzodiazepine class of drugs. Psychoactive meaning "affecting the mind". Benzos have some pretty nasty short and long term side effects. Like most drugs, initially you take them to feel better, but as tolerance builds you start to take them to feel normal, and maybe even just to feel less terrible rather than normal. A big difference though is that benzo withdrawal can lead to hallucinations, psychosis, seizure and even death in extreme cases. The shitty part is that once tolerance starts to build, they produce side effects similar to the very things they are supposed to treat, i.e. anxiety. For these reasons, they are generally regarded as a short term medication and not considered safe for long term.

Eating disorder and substance abuse disorders go hand in hand. Some studies say that as many as 50% of people with eating disorders have a substance use disorder, and around 30% of people with a substance use disorder also have an eating disorder. In my own experience, they can perpetuate each other to extremes. Drugs may reduce appetite or can be taken to replace the stimulation eating would normally produce- or sometimes both. Also, not eating right can lead to a lot of symptoms that seem to be easily managed with drugs, for example, anxiety and irritability caused by hunger can be mitigated by taking benzos.

I think your doctor is giving you some good advice regarding your use of benzos. I felt like quitting benzos was harder than quitting opiates and have heard many similar comparisons. It seems impossible at first, but it is possible to safely taper down and avoid the more serious side effects, although you will probably experience some side effects with each step down as your body adjusts. I found that when taking benzos long term it becomes difficult to differentiate between side effects and real emotions, as many of the side effects impact emotions and the way we feel.

Congrats on hitting 3 weeks off of opiates though. I find that it is easier to manage my desire to use if I think out the long term result and consequences. For example, I would definitely feel good when high, but I would feel a lot of guilt and disappointment when the high wears off, not to mention the money. Day by day, week by week, month by month. Short term goals really helps. I'll be coming up on 6 months this week, but I'm still going day by day.

Sometimes all we can take are baby steps, but little improvement is better than no improvement. The little things will add up to big things.

 

[Ganja Gremlin]

I think "disgusting psychoactive" was referring to the benzodiazepine class of drugs. Psychoactive meaning "affecting the mind". Benzos have some pretty nasty short and long term side effects. Like most drugs, initially you take them to feel better, but as tolerance builds you start to take them to feel normal, and maybe even just to feel less terrible rather than normal. A big difference though is that benzo withdrawal can lead to hallucinations, psychosis, seizure and even death in extreme cases. The shitty part is that once tolerance starts to build, they produce side effects similar to the very things they are supposed to treat, i.e. anxiety. For these reasons, they are generally regarded as a short term medication and not considered safe for long term.

Eating disorder and substance abuse disorders go hand in hand. Some studies say that as many as 50% of people with eating disorders have a substance use disorder, and around 30% of people with a substance use disorder also have an eating disorder. In my own experience, they can perpetuate each other to extremes. Drugs may reduce appetite or can be taken to replace the stimulation eating would normally produce- or sometimes both. Also, not eating right can lead to a lot of symptoms that seem to be easily managed with drugs, for example, anxiety and irritability caused by hunger can be mitigated by taking benzos.

I think your doctor is giving you some good advice regarding your use of benzos. I felt like quitting benzos was harder than quitting opiates and have heard many similar comparisons. It seems impossible at first, but it is possible to safely taper down and avoid the more serious side effects, although you will probably experience some side effects with each step down as your body adjusts. I found that when taking benzos long term it becomes difficult to differentiate between side effects and real emotions, as many of the side effects impact emotions and the way we feel.

Congrats on hitting 3 weeks off of opiates though. I find that it is easier to manage my desire to use if I think out the long term result and consequences. For example, I would definitely feel good when high, but I would feel a lot of guilt and disappointment when the high wears off, not to mention the money. Day by day, week by week, month by month. Short term goals really helps. I'll be coming up on 6 months this week, but I'm still going day by day.

Sometimes all we can take are baby steps, but little improvement is better than no improvement. The little things will add up to big things.

I really think I need to be on benzos long term at least for another 6 months to a year . I went through some extremely traumatic shit when I was 17 that has changed me forever as a person. After i was planning to kill myself with my eating disorder, and I almost did... till I got hospitalised for the 3rd time this summer at a bmi of 13.8... I actually snuck in oxys to the hospital and heart almost stopped beating from the ativan I was on combined with how bad my vitals were . I've never made it farther than a few months in recovery but since I started taking benzos I have been able to maintain medical stability since I was released from the hospital late July. I feel like benzos are saving my life in some ways ... I know I would normally of relapsed hard back into my eating disorder right now and be at an even lower weight than I am now :/

I've lived the past 3 years being willing to die to be emaciated , benzos have allowed me to maintain an underweight but not dangerously low bmi by eating 1700-2000 calories a day. I am healthier than I am in years and I know when i stop taking benzos I will relapse my eating disorder has taken more from me than drugs ever did, it stole my youth. Ptsd and the trauma I endured fuels my self distruction... anorexia is almost like a drug to me when I am actively restricting and purging .