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Why would 2-fma "cure" my benzo withdrawals?

J

JackieChan

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Feb 19, 2013
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I have a habit of 2-3mg Alprazolam/day. Trying to slowly taper myself off, withdrawals set in every 4-6 hours between doses.
I occasionally substitute the alprazolam with a (roughly) equivalent dose of Etiz.

Occasionally I dabble with ~60mg of 2-fma in a "party" setting, and interestingly, it seems to eliminate anxiety as well as my benzo withdrawals all day and well into the next. I have to take some benzos to get to sleep on days when I take the 2-fma, but whereas those would usually be worn off by morning and I would wake up in a state of withdrawal, I don't on days after I take 2-fma.

Any ideas why this would be?
Others have noticed a significant anxiolytic effect from 2-fma.
Is it possible that 2-fma hits some of the same receptors that benzos do?
Could this be a possible way to taper off of benzos (ie. low doses of 2-fma)?

Any input is appreciated,
Thanks.
 
Although benzo withdrawal isn't fully understood, the unmasking of the brain's excess Glutamate production to counteract excess GABA appears to be the main mechanism.

2-FMA is poorly studied, but d-amp causes activation of the dopamine-2 receptors which inhibits glutamate release in the prefrontal cortex. Could make sense as to the mechanism of action for helping.

Anecdotally, I quit k-pins cold turkey on Carbamazepine without issue.
 
Is it possible that 2-fma hits some of the same receptors that benzos do?
Could this be a possible way to taper off of benzos (ie. low doses of 2-fma)?
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1. no
2. very unlikely

a more likely explanation is you are masking the effects of benzo withdrawal by using a mood elevating euphoriant.
 
While it's not your typical anti-convulsant, it is for sure one of, maybe the best commercially available anti-dependency agent. It's action could well indirectly counter act the convulsions, like it does to other symptoms by inhibiting glutamergic overexcitation.

I was able to quit a (light, but still serious) AH-7921 habit with it w/o problems. Stopping everything, I got physical withdrawal within one day. Continuing memantine at 40mg/d for a week or two, maybe some low-dosed amphetamine in the morning and clonidine in the evening, you don't even notice what's going on... really unique.

Note that combining memantine with a range of substances (opiates, dopaminergics... don't know about gabaergics, to pregabalin sadly it did nothing) really slows down tolerance build-up. But as you say, there is evidence that it helps even if taken after tolerance already set in.
 
Reactions to stimulants are highly variable. Some people get really nervous and edgy while others find them relaxing -- if you're part of the latter group, then perhaps the amphetamine is of some benefit in benzo withdrawal. But I wouldn't recommend it as using a stimulant while withdrawing from a depressant probably wreaks a lot of havoc on your brain.
 
Moredopamine said:
Reactions to stimulants are highly variable. Some people get really nervous and edgy while others find them relaxing -- if you're part of the latter group, then perhaps the amphetamine is of some benefit in benzo withdrawal. But I wouldn't recommend it as using a stimulant while withdrawing from a depressant probably wreaks a lot of havoc on your brain.
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Thanks for all the replies everyone!

I feel like I should elaborate a little...
For starters, I have an Alprazolam prescription due to legitimate anxiety,I'm not using it recreationally, so calling it a "habit" probably wasn't the best term to use. I'm also on Venlafaxine (Effexor) for anxiety; it works wonders at 150mg/day (I feel pretty much "cured" of my anxiety), but due to money constraints and not wanting to be on any more meds than I needed to be I tapered the Efexor down to 75mg/day, and kept it there for about 8-12 months. In retrospect, it probably wasn't a high enough dose because I was having to take Xanax more frequently, and alas, it ended up with me being here here somewhat dependent on it (albeit still a fairly low dose).

On a normal day, I wake up very groggy with a headache and moderate anxiety until I take either ~1mg Etiz or ~0.5mg Alprazolam, and have to redose similar dosages every 4-5 hours to stay feeling "normal".

On a day after I've taken ~60mg 2-fma, I wake up with no headache, next to no anxiety, and feel refreshed and energized.
The effect is rather drastic and definitely not a placebo.

Now, I have no intentions of trying to use 2-fma to help me taper off of benzos, nor do I think that would be a good idea, but I just find it fascinating that it makes such a dramatic difference 24+ hours later, especially considering its a stimulant (you'd think I'd wake up MORE anxious).
I'll have to experiment a little to see how long these effects last the next day and whether or not small doses of 2-fma continue to relieve the benzo withdrawal symptoms, but unless 2-fma has an insanely long half life, it seems like it may be affecting the receptors that cause benzo withdrawal...

(keep in mind I pretty much have no idea what I'm talking about haha.... which is why I'm asking for your thoughts and opinions)
 
I really wish the ortho-halogenated amphetamines were better studied in academia. Some clearly possess very unexpected properties.

Running a google scholar search on 2-FMA turns up almost nothing aside from forensic chemistry articles. There is clearly more to 2-FMA than "recreation", but we still have basically no real data on how neurotoxic it even is... :(
 
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I really wish the para-halogenated amphetamines were better studied in academia. Some clearly possess very unexpected properties.
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Perhaps you are confused on your terminology, the para-haloamphetamines (para = 4' position) are rather well characterized as far as I know. 4-fluoroamphetamine and 4-FMA are "mixed monoamine releasers" (5HT/NE/DA), 4-chloro-amphetamine is a neurotoxin, 4-bromo-amp is weaker, and 4-iodo-amp is weaker still but still plenty toxic enough to serotonin neurons to fuck you up badly. 4-methylthioamphetamine was a street drug for a while until too many people died. 4-methyl-amphetamine has been used in eastern Europe with some reports of permanent dysfunction (yay, serotonin neuron death)

Part of the Big Problem that lends toxicity to some 4-sub amphetamines - they are good MAOIs as well as releasers. Not a good thing to strive for.

Meta = 3' position has had some exploration, e.g. 3-fluoro-(meth)amp, 3-methyl cathinones, but I don't know about 3' halogens heavier than fluoro, as desfenfluramine (3-trifluoromethyl-amp) had serious cardiac valve problems caused by 5ht2b agonism. ostensibly so would e.g. 3-chloro, 3-bromo, 3-iodo amph.

Ortho = 2'position and that's what I think you were thinking of :) 2-fluoro-amphetamine seems pretty close to its "parent", closest of all 3 fluoroamphetamines.. it would be a good rainy day project if someone resolved the enantiomers, I bet pure D-2-FA is good shit ;) Aside from e.g. 2-methyl and 5-methyl analogues of MDA/butylone that have been made, not much other substitution here. Well, excluding 2c-series. I think simple compounds like 2-meo-amp and 2-Cl,Br,I-amp have been made, just not "tasted"...
 
2-FMA will cure nothing, it may mask the symptoms though. But there are alot of better, less dangerous drugs to use for that.

2-FMA during benzo withdrawal is just a seizure waiting to happen I think...
 
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