bit_pattern
Ex-Bluelighter
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Proving, once again, that Conservatives as stupid as a sack full of hammers.
Hyuck hyuck hyuck! :D
Why Liberals Are More Intelligent Than Conservatives
- Thread starter qwe
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Proving, once again, that Conservatives as stupid as a sack full of hammers.
Hyuck hyuck hyuck! :D
qwe
Bluelight Crew
honestly i don't think they're stupid
their awareness was led in a different direction by life circumstances and it's usually hard to bridge the gap between left/right paradigms; i hope awareness increases to the point where the two make a sort of synthesis in society
they both have positive motivations for their perspectives, and they both can be taken too far
their awareness was led in a different direction by life circumstances and it's usually hard to bridge the gap between left/right paradigms; i hope awareness increases to the point where the two make a sort of synthesis in society
they both have positive motivations for their perspectives, and they both can be taken too far
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bit_pattern
Ex-Bluelighter
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Shut up, hippy 
SubDude
Bluelighter
What part of "Abortion [without medical/health complications to mom and/or child] is an elective procedure provided to a healthy person." don't you understand.
It's not all or nothing... A young/older woman should absolutely receive maternity care which is completely different than healthy woman [with a healthy fetus] going to Planned Parenthood and getting a taxpayer funded abortion... simply because it's inconvenient to carry the child to birth. Of course I support birth control pills, condoms, IUD's...etc. Anything but ripping out a living being from a womb. Women should use contraceptives not abortion to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Fetuses are capable of feeling pain by week 12. If for no other reason, abortion is wrong because it inflicts pain on a living defenseless human being.
A CDC study showed that 19-25% of women who received abortions in 2006 had previously had one or more abortions. If abortion was not so easily available, women would not be as careless.
My wife is a Psychotherapist and she sees the depression, guilt and regret firsthand on a regular basis. Abortions absolutely cause psychological damage. There is a peer-reviewed study [published by the Southern Medical Journal] of more than 173,000 American women... and it found that women who aborted were 154% more likely to commit suicide than women who carried to term. Another study on men by the Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology whose partners had abortions found that 51.6% of the men reported regret, 45.2% felt sadness, and 25.8% experienced depression.
From a legal standpoint... If a person kills a pregnant woman the murderer is charged with 2 counts of murder.... why is that?
Abortion is a complex issue and should be considered from more than one perspective. Situations like rape and incest complicate it even more, especially if the victim of rape is young. Some feel a teenager who was raped and became pregnant should be handled differently than someone who had consensual unprotected sex and wants a tax payer funded abortion?
Escher's Waterfall
Bluelight Crew
So you are against abortions, but you are for birth control methods that work by preventing a fertilized egg from implanting in the womb?
Why?
Why?
Kenickie
Bluelight Crew
because it's not like that. do you consider mental health issues (but otherwise physically healthy person) still not acceptable?
but what if they are poor? can't afford health care?
Subdude said:
you seem to care, unless they are poor and need help taking care of said infant...but refuse to help them not burden themselves (and society, in general) with a child they can't afford. not all abortions (and really, i doubt the majority of) come from women who had unprotected sex and flippantly said, well, i'll just ask subdude to pay for my abortion. there is a whole complex set of factors -- what if she took anti biotics and her BC pills failed? the condom ripped? she's in an abusive relationship? when i say all or nothing, you seem to be okay to punish everyone for a percentage of the population who are irresponsible. which i imagine to be extremely small.
i just gave examples above on how a responsible (meaning, using contraceptives) woman could become pregnant.
in countries where sex education is comprehensive, and not so many hurdles (age restrictions, etc) to getting birth control, and ABORTION is open and legal process, the number of abortions is lower than ours. example.
nobody said they don't?
because said pregnant woman was attempting to carry her child to term?
the conservative view point on abortion baffles me. women will have abortions, like it or not. women have been ending pregnancies they don't want since the beginning of time. the best thing to do would be to make them safe, legal, and affordable (so Subdude doesn't pay for them?
). Conservatives who want to repeal Roe v. Wade don't seem to care that by doing so, they will end up killing many women. WHO said:
so if you times that, (since obviously if mom dies baby does too) that's 136,000 people. what bothers me, more than that (which really bothers me) is that in the united states, the maternal death rate is on the rise. women are dying of things that we've been able to prevent since the 1950s. women AND children.
on top of that, infant mortality rates are way too high.
what gives? probably lack of prenatal care, general health problems that come with poverty, etc.
i'm just sayin, we don't even take care of the babies women DO want to have, and that's what pro lifers should be more focused on, before they go after women who DON'T WANT the baby.
i'll stop derailing the thread now.
qwe
Bluelight Crew
^ you're not really derailing too much... the culture war seems to have a way of making its way to the abortion issue each time lol
Kenickie
Bluelight Crew
which is some how telling....
stay out of my shit, but let me get all up in that cunt of yours to make sure you don't make any choices of your own that aren't sanctioned by my god
(pro choice Catholics excluded)
stay out of my shit, but let me get all up in that cunt of yours to make sure you don't make any choices of your own that aren't sanctioned by my god
(pro choice Catholics excluded)
Escher's Waterfall
Bluelight Crew
That reminds me: As a self-appointed guardian of the moral good, could all cute female BLers please record any and all of their sexual activities and send me the tapes.
I'll "review" them to make sure you're not doing anything morally objectionable.
Thanks.
I'll "review" them to make sure you're not doing anything morally objectionable.
Thanks.
marsmellow
Bluelight Crew
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Subdude, I am morally against most wars, like you are against abortion. But that doesn't mean that the government shouldn't be allowed to go to war.
And the haves will end up supporting the have nots, one way or another. If you get rid of the social safety nets, they will find other ways to support themselves. Like robbing the haves at gunpoint, or rebelling against capitalism.
That is actually why we have all these programs. Why the New Deal was created. Because people were worried that that capitalism would be overthrown, like it was in Russia, if they didn't take steps to make it more humane.
And the haves will end up supporting the have nots, one way or another. If you get rid of the social safety nets, they will find other ways to support themselves. Like robbing the haves at gunpoint, or rebelling against capitalism.
That is actually why we have all these programs. Why the New Deal was created. Because people were worried that that capitalism would be overthrown, like it was in Russia, if they didn't take steps to make it more humane.
SubDude
Bluelighter
The New Deal was an overreaction to the Depression. It started us down this slippery slope [we're on] and has progressively expanded into areas FDR and his cronies would have clearly opposed.
Yes the haves are morally responsibile to help the poor. However, It's wrong when the govt forces people to contribute to causes that directly conflict with an individuals morals, values, and overall belief system.
I'm not sure I understand your point if you're trying to make a fair comparison between a soldier killing on orders from his govt, and a woman choosing to terminate a pregnancy... Completely different issues. As long countries have borders and conflicting interests outside of them... govts will need a military. Always has... always will. That aint gonna change.
Poverty will always be with us too... and will be worse [in the long term] as long as politicians fancy themselves as philanthropists. The govt fucks up damn near everything it gets it's hands on... so why should they be any better at redistributing wealth. Just take a look at SS, Medicaid, Medicare, Food stamps, Fanniemae/freddiemac, AFDC... etc. and it's easy to see we're in a big mess. The private sector does most everything more efficiently and/or better than govt.
I know you're against wars... I am too but do you think it's morally wrong to kill in order to protect yourself or an innocent whose unable to self protect ? If so, that's reasonable moral justification for wars. If not, I don't know what to say??
I will say that it's not morally wrong to kill to protect lives... I fought in a war because our country called me up. If I didn't go [like 2 high school friends] someone else would have been called to take my place. So... if for no other reason, my service kept another man from being drafted and possibly killed. Not claiming I went to keep someone else from military service... but that was the end result... along with other things.
Kenicke- Yes I believe abortion is wrong but then i'm not a teen whose been raped by her brother. And I'm not a college student who got caught up in passion and slipped into an unwanted pregnancy. So I don't judge any woman for her choice... Everyone must live with their own conscious, assuming they aren't sociopaths.
BTW... You have every right to do whatever you want with your preganancy. Just don't come and ask me to pay for your negligence. I know... I know... it's easier to save face and not feel needy when you go [around my back] and get my tax money instead of asking my charity. Nothing personal... just responding and using you as an example.
34-dihydroxyphen
Bluelighter
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It is against my belief system to help anyone but myself. Does that mean I don't have to pay any taxes now?
Really? I hear this repeated all of the time, and I never see any conclusive evidence to prove it. I'm sure that Appple will make better I-Phones than the government equivalent, but when it comes to things that most of us feel should not be highly profitable (medicine, prisons) a shitload of problems occur from too much privatization.
marsmellow
Bluelight Crew
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Overreaction? Really? That is ridiculous. Go read a history book. Look at what happened in Europe (fascism & communism) at the time, and then compare it to what happened here. Read the Grapes of Wrath... it was even worse than that in a lot of places.
Like when my tax dollars get used to kill people in the Middle East who never did anything to me?
By the way, it's wrong to let people live in poverty, when it can easily be prevented. For some reason conservatives never complain about that... it's only when they have to pay taxes that they start talking about right and wrong. Why is that? Maybe it's not about right and wrong, but about the size of your wallet?
Those programs work pretty good, actually.
Not healthcare. Not protecting the environment. Not building roads. Not policing neighborhoods. Not funding basic scientific research. The private sector is horrible at a lot of things.
Most of the wars we have been in were not defensive wars.
So, you are perfectly okay with going to war for your country, but you have big problems with helping your fellow citizens not starve or freeze to death? What kind of fucked up logic is that?
Escher's Waterfall
Bluelight Crew
How often I've said "god damn, I wish the government wasn't providing me with a fire department, public water works, or sewer!"
If only we could privatize all of these.
34-dihydroxyphen
Bluelighter
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$1000 to get that robber out of your house.
$2000 to put the fire out and save your daughter.
Because you need us and we can
qwe
Bluelight Crew
$8000 for medical procedure or you die. wait that's still privatized and we didn't do much about it and that still happens
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
Sub-dude said:
When's the last time that the US fought a war that was truly in self-defense? To what extent is military policy guided by extra-defensive motivations?
Nation-states as such have only existed for a tiny minority of human history (300 to 400 years), so the current reality of international conflict can't be used to justify the permanent necessity of the current distribution of the means to commit violence.
1. Just as nation-states have only existed for a tiny historical blip, the division between the private economy and public sector is similarly historically new. Thus, we can't use the failure of the current public sector to preclude more creative economic means than a private economy composed mostly of large bureaucratic firms.
2. I believe the functioning of the private economy to condition numerous economic injustices. If we are to have a functioning private economy that is palpable, we need mechanisms of redistribution. Conveniently enough, I believe such redistribution to temper capitalism's crisis-tendencies.
ebola
SubDude
Bluelighter
I have no problem helping the poor and like doing it as a choice... and would give much more if the fucking govt would stay out of my pockets. Based on research on giving to charity... Conservatives vs Libs... I probably give about twice more than you. Most libs talk big on charity but do the opposite with their own checkbooks. One of your heros, Al Gore, sets a perfect example for you by giving $200 for every $100,000 he earns. Look it up if you don't believe it.
As far as wars go... You guys love the govt dearly but scream bloody murder everytime they determine our [and/or an allies] national security is at risk... and sends in troops. Lets not forget it was your man obama who made the latest sacrifice of 30,000 new troops into a war. Why don't you trust him and his pals as much to protect you [and our friends] as you do to redistribute the wealth? Their fucking geniuses on welfare reform and morons on defense... right?
I'd really like to see some of you youngsters get a taste of the real world in the form of basic combat training... followed by active service, but then the world is safe enough for you as it is... and the next time we get hit, you'll leave it to others do the dirty work for you... My actions speak louder than your words.
SubDude
Bluelighter
You ever heard of the "war on terror"? We're defending ourselves right now in Afghan. WTF is "extra defense motivations"?
Hmm... So now we're comparing today with our "monkey ancestors" fighting for the best trees. BTW, 300-400 yrs is a fairly long time in recorded history. Since when is justification needed to commit violence??
Bardeaux
Bluelight Crew
9/11 was committed by a bunch of Saudis armed with box cutters. What exactly is our ultimate mission in Afghanistan?
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