Esoteric Why is writing on psychedelics so weak?

[AutoTripper]

Must admit that after spending the best part of a decade reading every writer on psychedelics - theres practically none of it I would recomend to anyone. Absolutely none of it has ever struck home with my psychedelic experiences.

I've never read any of those books/sources/men women of gospel.

I know McKenna is real popular.

But A Shulgin said ALD 52 was nothing great! Fully backwards, I said it before I bet if yield & return vs production expense rivalled LSD 25 it may have been the adopted molecule, but Sandoz were also profiteerers.

Hunter Thompson may be an interesting read.

I did my own research and I ain't claiming to be no guru or anything.

 

[AutoTripper]

what about people who write hundreds of very shallow "look at me how enlightened I am" posts on certain internet forums?

He did debatably make a valid point there, generally tbf with exceptions ofc.

I think the laugh is a sort of self shielding coping mechanism maybe. Saves engaging. It's more like a laugh in a face if you get me.

He is a young man! I began taking LSD when he was born lol, still cracks me up.

And NZ must be a mega stress pressure zone too.

 

[Dreamflyer]

I think it's because the psychedelic experience is often way too far beyond anything that can be described in words.

I have the same problem posting my dream reports. I try to be as descriptive as possible, but some things just defy human language. Like, how can I explain being in two different places at once, at two different ages, talking to someone who's a combination of two different people?

 

[Ismene2]

I like Hunter Thompsons writings on other things but on drugs, psychedelics in particular - I mean all that bullshit about taking mescaline and then seeing bats flying round the car? Why write such silly bollocks? Is it just to make himself sound too cool for school?

 

[Xorkoth]

He wrote sensationally about psychedelics in a way that is ridiculous... and I think he was trying to be sensationalist. I don't value his writing about psychedelics, either, at least not as anything but entertainment. I do, however, value it when people attempt to describe their experiences. I never go into reading (or writing) about trips expecting that it's going to be a totally accurate portrayal of what they/I experienced. Such a thing isn't possible. But I do think it's entirely possible to convey enough for someone else to get something useful from it, or get some idea of the sort of experience they might expect to have if they took the same drug. I also like reading about whatever insights people had during their trip.

I think anyone expecting to somehow be transported into the state of mind that a trip report author was in during their trip is expecting too much. Obviously that's not possible. It doesn't mean there isn't something one can get out of reading a trip report.

Is it just to make himself sound too cool for school?

yeah, basically.

 

[Keeloverandfly]

I have read so many damn trip reports on erowid, and I don’t find the writing weak. Some is so good I feel like I understand the trip, even though I haven’t taken the particular drug in question. I have never read any published literature on psychedelics though.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

I haven't read it in over 30 years but at the time I was extremely impressed with Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception book about his first synthetic mescaline trip.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Ram was saying forget psychedelics and be a hindu to get really high - where did that bullshit come from? Psychedelics are the antithesis of religion.

I personally know many former atheists who became devout theists of one kind or another after having an intense psychedelic experience.
Psychedelics are tools that if used properly can act like short cuts towards enlightenment...but they aren't absolutely neccessary.
This is what Ram meant....psychedelics are the easy way and there is a lot to be said for not taking any short cuts and actually putting in the work of years of meditation and physical , psychological and emotional trials and rituals.

 

[burn out]

Ram was saying forget psychedelics and be a hindu to get really high - where did that bullshit come from? Psychedelics are the antithesis of religion.

That's just your opinion. A lot of people, myself included tend to think psychedelics played a significant role in the genesis of religion.

 

[pupnik]

That's just your opinion. A lot of people, myself included tend to think psychedelics played a significant role in the genesis of religion.

I think you are right, but I don't think it worked out well in most cases.
The idea of the sabbath, however, as one day per week to get down and be one with nature makes a lot of sense to me.
The rest not so much. Ram Das was in the right place at the right time, as was TM - when a cohort wants it's religion it takes what it can get.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

The psychedelic-influenced bits in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" were good IMO

 

[Ismene2]

I personally know many former atheists who became devout theists of one kind or another after having an intense psychedelic experience.
Psychedelics are tools that if used properly can act like short cuts towards enlightenment...but they aren't absolutely neccessary.
This is what Ram meant....psychedelics are the easy way and there is a lot to be said for not taking any short cuts and actually putting in the work of years of meditation and physical , psychological and emotional trials and rituals.

Yeah its a well-trodden path from psychedelics to religion but its something I've never been able to grasp. Psychedelics are their own path to me - completely different to man-made "pray like me" religion.

I always think the ones who say "you have to do it for 50 years first" are trying to dodge the fact it doesnt work.

 

[Ismene2]

That's just your opinion. A lot of people, myself included tend to think psychedelics played a significant role in the genesis of religion.

Do you mean stuff like the burning bush was smoking acacia seeds? Maybe - but where did all the authoritarian "do as i say or die" shit come from?

 

[JackARoe]

I always think the ones who say "you have to do it for 50 years first" are trying to dodge the fact it doesnt work.

LOL you like that Ismene don't you? I get irked by that notion too. You must sit for 5 hours a day and "maybe" you will reach "enlightenment" in 50 years.

Even if that were true, and I am sure for a few it is, logically our minds would reject that notion as too long.

I can be ok with people with people doing Yoga or meditating. What I don't appreciate is when some of these newer "guru's" discount psychedelics as chemical and not real as if their own technique is the only one. But even some people knew there are many paths even amongst the Gurus..

Anandamayi Ma said "all paths are my paths" and "I have no particular path". Also ""How can one impose limitations on the infinite by declaring this is the only path—"

As far as writing I do appreciate people that try and dice and slice reality and try to communicate that to others. I pretty much like them all. I use to get annoyed at some of the newer self help teachers leaving out psychedelics as their initiation. Leaving that out is blasphemy. So I got a little more respect when Deepak Chopra put out that it was LSD that got him into what he is. At least he said it. Let's face it, there is no New Age without psychedelics. I agree with Terrence McKenna when he said the New Age movement was created so people would not have to drop acid anymore and skirt around it. lol

Lastly the only thing enlightened means to me is someone figured out they need to be kind. What else is it?

 

[Chris Timothy]

Kindness and all the tangles. Causation as feedback loop.

Up to the highest levels.

 

[perpetualdawn]

The Rose of Paracelsus (Pickard) is an interesting book. A fascinating creation from one particular psychedelic-shaped mind. It's an elaborate tapestry of writing, saturated in detail, verbose to a poetic extreme, and dripping in acid.

It's not without problems. It has an air of smugness, and was sometimes uncomfortably puritanical and chauvinistic (in the broadest sense of that word).

Despite these misgivings I recommend the book. Fact and fiction, history and fantasy, all intertwined and overgrown in a sensuous hall of mirrors. It's definitely earned its place in the psychedelic canon. It's a trip.

Another very trippy book I have to recommend (speaking of hall of mirrors) is "I am a strange loop" by Douglas Hofstadter. Not explicitly psychedelic, but goes deep into some philosophical ground that I think many trippers will recognize.

 

[burn out]

Do you mean stuff like the burning bush was smoking acacia seeds? Maybe - but where did all the authoritarian "do as i say or die" shit come from?

I suppose it's possible but I wouldn't say that's quite what I meant, to me the significance of the burning bush story was the fact that the bush was burning but not consumed and what that symbolizes whereas I assume if you were to smoke acacia seeds they would be consumed.

I was thinking more along the lines of how religions began. For example, in an ancient hunter gatherer group you might have a medicine man or shaman who is responsible for the spiritual well-being of the group, often times making use of various plants for healing and communing with the spirit world. In fact, most of the natural psychedelics have long histories of such uses and were generally used in some sort of ritualized setting within the societies that used them. Naturally, insights and information gained during these experiences would influence the thinking of the participants thus impacting their world views and whatever sort of cosmology or religious understanding they would ultimately pass down.

As for where did all the "authoritarian "do as i say or die" shit" come from do you really need to ask? Most obvious would be the desire to control other people. The bigger a religion gets and the further away it gets from its original founder(s) the more it becomes useful as a political tool. Even on a very small scale there is no shortage of cult leaders that desire to gather followers around them and then exert control over them.

Then of course there's also a sincere desire to warn other people that doing some things might be a bad idea and lead one to their death. For example on here we have a lot of people warning others not to start shooting heroin. Is that because they are authoritarian or is it because they noticed through their own experience that going down that path often leads to destruction and death? Of course in religion, there is a lot more superstition mixed in but generally speaking I think one could argue a lot of the things religions warn against actually are based on observations people made over time about what sorts of actions lead to problems down the line. For example, Buddhists might warn us not to use opiates because they lead to sluggishness of mind and insatiable craving. Can anyone here argue that's not at least somewhat true? Similarly with things like sex before marriage, it might seem completely innocent at first but over the long haul one might find that if they spend their youth having sex with lots of people then as they get older they find it more difficult to pair bond and the temporary thrill they got from sleeping around wasn't as full-filling as they thought it would be. Observations like this can get encoded into religions. Historically, religion and culture were often much more intertwined than they are today.

 

[burn out]

LOL you like that Ismene don't you? I get irked by that notion too. You must sit for 5 hours a day and "maybe" you will reach "enlightenment" in 50 years.

Even if that were true, and I am sure for a few it is, logically our minds would reject that notion as too long.

I can be ok with people with people doing Yoga or meditating. What I don't appreciate is when some of these newer "guru's" discount psychedelics as chemical and not real as if their own technique is the only one. But even some people knew there are many paths even amongst the Gurus..

Anandamayi Ma said "all paths are my paths" and "I have no particular path". Also ""How can one impose limitations on the infinite by declaring this is the only path—"

As far as writing I do appreciate people that try and dice and slice reality and try to communicate that to others. I pretty much like them all. I use to get annoyed at some of the newer self help teachers leaving out psychedelics as their initiation. Leaving that out is blasphemy. So I got a little more respect when Deepak Chopra put out that it was LSD that got him into what he is. At least he said it. Let's face it, there is no New Age without psychedelics. I agree with Terrence McKenna when he said the New Age movement was created so people would not have to drop acid anymore and skirt around it. lol

Lastly the only thing enlightened means to me is someone figured out they need to be kind. What else is it?

Well if you ask the Buddhists and Hindus, they might say it has something to do with removing the ultimate source of one's suffering. If it were just figuring out the need to be kind, they would not differentiate between saints and enlightened beings.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Yeah its a well-trodden path from psychedelics to religion but its something I've never been able to grasp. Psychedelics are their own path to me - completely different to man-made "pray like me" religion.

I always think the ones who say "you have to do it for 50 years first" are trying to dodge the fact it doesnt work.

 

[Ismene2]

Yeah - the hindu side of things was where George Harrison went wasn't it - but I could never accept the caste system - it's like something out of Mein Kampf. And the buddhists? They were bullwhipping the native Tibetans and lording it over them as their feudal masters for 900 years. Lots of meditation but if you were starving and pinched one of their goats they tied you down and gouged your eyes out. Will they show us the route to enlightenment? I doubt it.