• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Why is it that Christians are so quick to judge Athiest/Agnostic individuals?

Cause xristians just hate being WRONG.
Earth formed around 4.54 billion years ago by accretion from the solar nebula.Volcanic out gassing probably created the primordial atmosphere and then the ocean, but the early atmosphere contained almost no oxygen and so would not have supported known forms of life. Much of the Earth was molten because of frequent collisions with other bodies which led to extreme volcanism. A giant impact collision with a planet-sized body named Theia while Earth was in its earliest stage, also known as Early Earth, is thought to have been responsible for forming the Moon.Richard Dawkins speaks the TRUTH.religion is a load of BULLSHIT.

There is NO god. I am PROUD to be an ATHEIST.Richard Dawkins is my HERO.Richard Dawkins: I'm '6.9 out 7' sure that God does not existhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9103685/Richard-Dawkins-Im-6.9-out-7-sure-that-God-does-not-exist.html

[h=1]The Root of All Evil? - "The Virus of Faith"[/h]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMUG6qd98wc&t=28s
 
It goes both ways for sure. It just depends on the person. I know someone who is a young Earth creationist. Which is just crazy. But they are a really good person.

I was a militant atheist for a time. I'm not sure why I was, I grew up in the church and never had a bad experience. I've said a lot of things that probably really hurt some people.

Now I am a live and let live athiest. I can see the good in religion and try to focus on that. I mostly keep my lack of belief to myself.

I've been told "there's a holiday for atheists you know. April fools day" I've also been told that atheism is just another religion. I've also been told I actually believe in god, I just need to be put in a bad enough position to pray.

The last one is funny. I was in a near death experience once. Never prayed for a second. That probably doesn't prove anything though.
 
DJ Saint-Hubert said:
you may find me cold and analytical but

there's theories that the mind is too liquid and plastic for such concrete ideas like "theist" or "atheist". In my humble opinion it's probably, not sure if this is a working theory, but it's more like you're 5% theist and 95% atheist, like a kinsey scale for religiousness?
Click to expand...

Not cold and analytical at all.

It's possible I guess. I keep thinking of the Sam Harris quote (and I am paraphrasing, poorly) "we don't have words to name people that don't believe in Zeus, or Mars" I guess I could 5% believe in Odin? There are so many ideas out there that I don't give any thought to.

I actually quite like the idea of simulation theory. Although I am made fun of when I bring it up at parties.
 
I consider myself an agnostic who leans towards the God exists side of the possibilities. I've generally found most Christians where I live to be pretty tolerant. But then it probably helps that I know a fair bit about Christianity so I can speak their language. And since generally I believe in a kind of higher power myself, that probably makes them more tolerant than if I said I didn't believe one way or the other or outright disbelieved.

While Christians should be more tolerant, I can't deny having seen a lot of very mean spirited atheists. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of hostility by Christians is a response to hostility by atheists. In other words they both feed off each other and increase their extremes.
 
The problem with that is that if we were all trapped in a simulation, wouldn't it be beneficial to who/whatever to make it impossible to prove inside the simulation?

Thus making the argument that it's been disproved dubious because it wouldn't make sense for it to be provable if it were true, resulting in absolutely no way of knowing whether it's true or not.

I for one highly doubt it, but my mind works in strange ways and this is the way it works.
 
Maybe the ultimate goal of the simulation by the simulation's creator is to have someone solve the simulation, rather than to keep us indefinitely clueless? Just playing devil's advocate.

Personally I sort of believe in a simulation but not as people generally conceive of it... I believe we're all the universe experiencing itself subjectively through infinite or near-infinite lenses. But this is all an elaborate illusion created to keep ourselves company because existing as a singularity in isolation is immensely dull and lonely and pointless.
 
Yourbaker said:
Religion used as a tool to judge should only be for self judgement.
Click to expand...

Having just spent a few days with my evangelical relatives and watching my adult son get his first real taste of their worldview, one thing stood out to both of us and that was the vacuousness of the doctrine itself for all but one. It is important to note that most of my cousins and my uncle came to this through the same ever-narrowing view of the world that gives us Trump and the validation of racism and xenophobia. They were never religious before but in the last few years they have come to identify more and more with this literal Christianity that seems to now be required if you are on the right politically. But here is the interesting part, as illustrated by one cousin that has been religious since her teens. She was the only one that focused on trying to "be Christ-like"--in other words, compassionate, nonjudgmental and focused on God as love rather than a judgmental moralistic 'father' that hands out rewards and punishments with no rhyme or reason. She is every bit as conservative as the rest of them (discounting all other religions as false) but it was such a stark contrast to see someone that actually tried to live the teachings they believe in as opposed to the rest for whom those teachings really had no relevance at all.
 
I used to work with a Pentecostal kid, he was how you just described that young lady to a t. He was probably the most kind and compassionate person I've ever met in person, but as you said his religion was right all others were wrong.
 
Dealing with the religious right is a lot like being a teen and dealing with alcoholic parents. There was a time in society when we listened to and respected them but as we grew up and learned more we realized they were in trouble and unaware. Now we can be rebellious and just leave them to eventually suffocate on their own vomit or step up to the most awkward challenge. How do you lovingly help a misguided extremist back from the brink while they are yelling at you?

Not every situation is that extreme but I do often find myself in them. I've spent two years quietly helping a group of religious volunteers make up gift baskets, feed people in need and basically help people in need in whatever capacity. A good number of these people, like myself, were actually not even religious either. There are still a few scary rule enforcers and contact with them is like dipping your hand in burning oil, I avoid it to the point they get frustrated and ask me why. After two years of minding my own business and just helping, even the most authoritarian have at least given me enough respect to listen to why I am there. It shocks them to hear I am helping because people need help and I can, not because I fear or obey words some long dead people put on paper.

The longer we don't open a dialogue with these extremists (who are parts of our families) the worse they will sink into their religious extremism. Just don't start the same way they have started dialogues with us.
 
herbavore said:
Having just spent a few days with my evangelical relatives and watching my adult son get his first real taste of their worldview, one thing stood out to both of us and that was the vacuousness of the doctrine itself for all but one. It is important to note that most of my cousins and my uncle came to this through the same ever-narrowing view of the world that gives us Trump and the validation of racism and xenophobia. They were never religious before but in the last few years they have come to identify more and more with this literal Christianity that seems to now be required if you are on the right politically. But here is the interesting part, as illustrated by one cousin that has been religious since her teens. She was the only one that focused on trying to "be Christ-like"--in other words, compassionate, nonjudgmental and focused on God as love rather than a judgmental moralistic 'father' that hands out rewards and punishments with no rhyme or reason. She is every bit as conservative as the rest of them (discounting all other religions as false) but it was such a stark contrast to see someone that actually tried to live the teachings they believe in as opposed to the rest for whom those teachings really had no relevance at all.
Click to expand...

The thing about it that really gets me is that, in my experience with Christianity (I grew up going to church every week), these people are NOT being "literal Christians". If you're being right on with the Bible, you have to follow the New Testament, not the Old Testament. The OT is the one with all the judgment and hate and killing. The NT, although some of the books do say some objectionable things here and there, basically consists of Jesus saying, alright guys, the way we're doing things (ie, the Old Testament way) is just plain wrong, you need to love everyone, and let's get money out of the church, and let's redistribute the wealth from the wealthy to all people, and by the way god loves everyone. It's so weird to me how people get it so twisted. Of course that's not new, Catholicism was started by the Romans around year 300 in order to co-opt the rising new Christ movement to maintain control over the people. A while after that came the Crusades, and hundreds of years of brutal imperialism in the name of Christianity. Like always, the people in control realize that religion is the most powerful way to control people so they've done just like the Romans did so long ago and co-opted it to suit their purposes.

It certainly is refreshing to meet people who see past that and actually use religion to be good people, as it was intended. My mom is like that, which is probably why even though I am not religious, I respect when people are and I don't lump them all together as hateful zealots. Just some of them are.
 
Xorkoth said:
The thing about it that really gets me is that, in my experience with Christianity (I grew up going to church every week), these people are NOT being "literal Christians". If you're being right on with the Bible, you have to follow the New Testament, not the Old Testament. The OT is the one with all the judgment and hate and killing. The NT, although some of the books do say some objectionable things here and there, basically consists of Jesus saying, alright guys, the way we're doing things (ie, the Old Testament way) is just plain wrong, you need to love everyone, and let's get money out of the church, and let's redistribute the wealth from the wealthy to all people, and by the way god loves everyone. It's so weird to me how people get it so twisted. Of course that's not new, Catholicism was started by the Romans around year 300 in order to co-opt the rising new Christ movement to maintain control over the people. A while after that came the Crusades, and hundreds of years of brutal imperialism in the name of Christianity. Like always, the people in control realize that religion is the most powerful way to control people so they've done just like the Romans did so long ago and co-opted it to suit their purposes.

It certainly is refreshing to meet people who see past that and actually use religion to be good people, as it was intended. My mom is like that, which is probably why even though I am not religious, I respect when people are and I don't lump them all together as hateful zealots. Just some of them are.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That's very much like what I've long told people.

I don't see how you can be Christian and believe gays should be killed or anything like that. The Christian Bible has a whole example of this where they try to entrap Jesus with a woman who'd committed adultery. Where of course Jesus tells them that only he who is without sin is fit to judge. Then when her accusers are all gone, he tells her he won't condemn her either and to leave and sin no more.

Her crime was going against the laws of Moses, which is where the belief that homosexuality is wrong comes from. If Jesus doesn't think people who've broken those laws should be judged and put to death by man, then how can you be a Christian and disagree?

The way I see it, only God is fit to judge man on these sorts of matters. That's what the Bible says. And Jesus said people should love each other. He surrounded himself with societies outcasts. And he didn't condemn them, he tried to help them. The poor and the beggers and the prostitutes and the *gasp* tax collectors. He was all about helping and showing kindness to societies most shunned.

I don't see how you can be a Christian and not try to follow Jesus standard. But you see it all the time. Way I see it if you're a Christian you have no business judging and condemning people.
 
Last edited:
The problem with friendly, "loving" Christians is they're nice to you...they speak to you civilly...they seem to have a more compassionate interpretation of the Bible...but at the end , when I ask, I'm unfortunately still going to Hell. The eternal lake of literal fire still awaits me :(.
 
mal3volent said:
The problem with friendly, "loving" Christians is they're nice to you...they speak to you civilly...they seem to have a more compassionate interpretation of the Bible...but at the end , when I ask, I'm unfortunately still going to Hell. The eternal lake of literal fire still awaits me :(.
Click to expand...

Depends a bit on what you consider hell to be. Lake of fire? Or simply the absence of God? A lot of the more horrible depictions of hell have been reenforced more by church groups as a power play over the years with less clear biblical basis.

Though it does seem a bit unfair for God to punish anyone in any way for using their God given skepticism in a totally honest way. Which is why, the way I see it. Either God's a dick, or it's simply not true.

What makes more sense, I mean from a Christian perspective. That God gave us morality and a conscience and free will and intelligence all of which many honest atheists use in good faith to have doubt, and that God then punishes them unfairly which we can tell inherently is unfair because of that God given sense of right and wrong.

Or that it IS wrong and simply isn't true and it's humans responsible for that suggestion.

If it makes no sense, seems to me it's probably people that are wrong and not God.

Accord to Christianity humans are made in God's image and we all have an inherent understanding of what's right and what's wrong. So what's a better source of God's expectations? That conscience, or a book that's been translated and could have been contaminated in any number of ways. But as my very atheist mom would say, perhaps I'm putting too much logical rational thought into religion.

But that's why I'm not a Christian or of any mainstream religion. It seems far too obvious to me that all the holy books are at least partially man made and fallible of not complete fiction. God may exist, but if he has expectations of us I have a feeling the human conscience is the best source.

Studies have shown that a basic understanding of right and wrong is fairly universal to human kind. Crossing all cultures. Call it God or evolution or nature or whatever. But if it's God, then that seems to me like it would be the most reliable source.
 
Last edited:
In truth Jess the only reliable source of anything must come from within us. Any "holy" book is just a book made dubious by its man made title.

The idea I was handed as a child was that somehow I was lucky to be born in a bible believing family that lived in a Mennonite community. Born believing I was somehow closer to God because of my lineage. When reality strikes and you realize all the absolute beliefs you've been holding are really just a bouquet of dead plants that smell bad you look for any kind of source of truth. Drugs unlocked me from the tiny religious prison I was in, instead of a future that was scripted and actually boring now I see huge possibilities. The biggest change is how I envision God, once God was aloof, male, angry and boring now I see creative freedom and endless possibilities but I didn't find many answers in books.

It became apparent to me that God had to be accessible to every human or there couldn't be a God. Having only Christian teaching I decided to pray/meditate til I found results. Eventually Christian prayer comes to an end and you realize if there is a God then your/my conversation was pointless but if I could learn to listen it would be of value. I really don't know that I've heard from God but I did come to a very new understanding of what/who God is and more specifically by following Christian teachings I ruled out the Jewish angry sky daddy. Despite having more questions and not knowing more, now I feel much happier knowing I had been wrong and all that baggage I had created for myself because of my religious beliefs has vanished.

I still understand being a decent person and I have no biblical threat in my life any longer. With the threats went the promises and eventually nothing is filtered through the religious glasses. At this point in my life I don't think I believe anything with absolute abandon besides a faith I've chosen to have in humanity as a whole, that enough waking up will happen before we nuke the globe over our imaginary monetary systems failure. I do see the teachings of Jesus (that wasn't actually his name despite being the main character the bible did get his name wrong) as accurate but I don't see the teaching about Jesus as being 100%.

It is hard to find your way out of deep religious territory, if someone in your life is steeped in the stuff you can't argue or be forceful they are like hypnotized people and they've done it to themselves to get through a life they don't understand. While they are yelling at you telling you about how you are bad and going to hell you need to keep loving them. Love is really the only thing that can help them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top