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Why is GABAergic withdrawal so debilitating?

OrbitalCombustion said:
GABA is one of the most prominent receptors in your brain, thats why. It affects a number of systems and pathways, so when you abuse things like alcohol or alprazolam, it really does a number on you when you try to quit/wean off.
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by doing a number on you, seriously, you mean it can kill you
 
allone said:
using google, valerian has quite few severe cases of withdrawal. do you guys ever research shit before you talk??
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Do you? Cause you seem to be the one posting misinformation if you think valerian is on par with benzodiazepines and alcohol in terms of withdrawal.

For most people, valerian does not appear to cause dependency. Nor does it cause withdrawal symptoms for most. But there are a few reports of withdrawal symptoms when valerian has been used over very long periods of time. If you want to stop taking valerian, lower your dose gradually rather than stopping all at once.
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www.mountsinai.org

Valerian Information | Mount Sinai - New York

Learn about Valerian or find a doctor at Mount Sinai Health System.
www.mountsinai.org
 
burn out said:
Do you? Cause you seem to be the one posting misinformation if you think valerian is on par with benzodiazepines and alcohol in terms of withdrawal.



www.mountsinai.org

Valerian Information | Mount Sinai - New York

Learn about Valerian or find a doctor at Mount Sinai Health System.
www.mountsinai.org
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valerian just like ALL herbs is heavily advertised by companies and its BUSINESS. so is benzos and alcohol, but they have been studied way way too much in depth, and arent able to deceive the public about its hidden dangers. valerian is just a herb thats being advertised as better alternative which is FALSE.
now, i do not rely on science literature as much as personal experience reports. that being 90% of science literature is SPONSORED. that is UNLESS lawyers come into play and they do counter studies like tobacco and alcohol showing different effects etc. SO i rely on personal experiences as I have seen on many forums i have visited people admitting addiction and bad withdrawals. is it as bad as benzos and alcohol? fuck no! but that doesnt dismiss it as just being fine to use long term ok?
 
I never said it had no withdrawal, I was saying it's nowhere near the level of benzodiazepines or alcohol which you seem to agree with. Kava was the herb I said had no withdrawal and that is based on my experience and the experience of a lot of other people but I would not be surprised if someone who had been drinking large amounts every day for a long time claimed they had a withdrawal from kava. My whole point was that not every GABAergic produces an especially bad withdrawal syndrome, not that you can just abuse them indefinitely and then stop with no consequences at all.

I also disagree that all herbs are "heavily advertised" by companies. When is the last time you saw a valerian commercial on TV?
 
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well, its past its prime. it used to be advertised a lot in europe back in my days. mostly by patents, of course, just like all herbs are advertised.
right now we have other crap heavily advertised like ashwagandha and curcumin etc.
btw ashwagandha has something to do with the GABA as well far as i remember reading an article on it. although i never felt such effect.


this though is what interests me way more;
Pregnenolone sulfate is an excitatory neurosteroid that acts as a negative allosteric modulator of GABA-A and a weak positive allosteric modulator of NMDA receptors. ... Of note, pregnenolone sulfate also increases glutamatergic-simulated EPSPs in acutely isolated dentate gyrus hilar neurons of the hippocampus.

i already got some pregnenolone. for someone who understands this better, is it a good idea to take this if you have issues using benzos and alcohol regularly?? would it hopefully maybe stabilize GABA receptors??
 
Oh, well here in the USA you never see advertisements for herbs. They are not advertised at all basically unless you count internet ads and even then a lot of the ads are for a website that sells herbs rather than a specific herb. A lot of times you can find herbs sold by weight in glass jars in health food stores and they don't even have brand names on them.
 
allone said:
Pregnenolone sulfate is an excitatory neurosteroid that acts as a negative allosteric modulator of GABA-A and a weak positive allosteric modulator of NMDA receptors. ... Of note, pregnenolone sulfate also increases glutamatergic-simulated EPSPs in acutely isolated dentate gyrus hilar neurons of the hippocampus.
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So theoretically it should play nice together with high dose pregabalin, extending its magic (which is supposed to be due to glutamate reuptake inhibition but that one regulates quickly and too gets overshadowed by upregulated enzyme for glu -> GABA.)
Any experiences? Need to order. Fuck, bluelight always wakes the experimentist in me.

I imagine that pregabalin could do the trick for GABA withdrawal, and/or together with another antiepileptic, like vaproate (I am currently on both, don't like the latter cause of its relative physical toxicity within therapeutic ranges - while one can abuse the hell out of pregabalin without damage - but they play nicely together. Doc likes valproate more but probably will switch again to just pregab.)

Pregabalin is able to completely mask opioid withdrawal from moderate dependencies, I am currently wearing off from morphine/earlier methadone, former up to 600mg/d, latter up to 60mg/d.. with pregab 600mg/d could cut down from 480mg/d morphine straight to 240mg/d without nothing. Nothing. Then 180 - 120mg/d, now maybe 40mg/d. Next step is to kick with lope.
This is the second time I withdraw from morphine and the second time I get away with. Time on morphine now maybe 1y, together 3-4yrs. First time was with memantine. And some breaks while on O-PCM, on that withdrawing actually feals great. Yeah. It feels great. You feel the numbing to fade away and being replaced with heavily euphoria.. just that this route is pro-psychotic.
Forget clonidine, even benzos. Imagine that pregab + memantine, both decently dosed over the course of some weeks together with tapering, add some lope if necessary, could well make the gold standard of opioid detoxification. Then wear off the pregab and contine on mem for receptor recovery / PAWS.

But back to topic. GABA, yeah - was my first withdrawal ever, they gave me like 3mg/d lorazepam in psych ward for social anxiety over 3 months, then got into a fight with some stupid wreck of alcoholic who was onto a girl I was friends with, sigh -- got restrained, 150mg chlorprothixene (first hallucinations ever, imaginated a complete person, interacted etc. and from a fucking antipsychotic. Muscarinic antagonism. Wouldn't remain the last incident of this sort.) ... and cold turkey off benzos. Full on panic, insomnia for around 3 months and suspect it to having permanently altered my personality / brain structure towards more anxiety and panic which became generalized and one reason for me beginning to experiment, and to become hooked on some substances. Thanks, doc.

Now I'm partly immune to GABA w/d. Later they put me on zopiclone for sleep, also around 3 months straight, no w/d. Heavy drinking, no w/d just rebound. (Ab)using lorazepam - which lost its therapeutic effects at all but remains somewhat recreative, alprazolam is better but no access- no w/d. Yet I always watched to skip some days in-between with benzos, so maybe this cut it too.
 
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