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Why is Finland's outlook & drug policies so unprogressive?

Capatane

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
6
Location
Finland
Finland, or Suomi is a crazy place to live. Sentencing isn't too harsh but the availability and outlook on drugs is ridiculous. I mean most people in the older generation thing smoking a joint is as bad a line of yeyo. Meanwhile, drinking is a social obligation. Alcoholism is rampant, promoted and accepted. It's bonkers.

Any thoughts or Fins here to comment?
 
Finland is part of Scandinavian and countries in this particular part of Europe are known to be a tad on the conservative side of things when it comes to dealing with issues of vice like drug use and prostitution. Google 'the Swedish model" which is the hard-line approach Sweden Iceland Norway have adopted to deal with prostitution that is the opposite attitude compared to more liberal and progressive countries like Holland that champion decriminalisation of sex work while promoting sex workers rights and enhancing the sex workers health and well-being conditions.

There maybe no truth to this statement but i read online that in Finland IVing Amphetamines/Speed is far more widespread and common with local speed freak users compared to other European Nations citizens who use the IV method to use heroin as smack is the drug of choice for hard-core users. As i said i read that online and in that article it mentioned IV Speed use was way more popular with Finnish junkies.

I too have also heard Scandinavian's in general are rampant alcoholics that binge drink to the point that the stereotypical Irish piss-heads look like responsible drinkers.
 
That's too bad that Finland's attitude towards drugs is so harsh.

I've been fascinated with Finland's culture and traveling to Finland for many years now because I'm a huge metalhead and my favorite metal is Finnish metal and I've been enjoying reading the Kalevala and have heard that Finland is the most beautiful Scandanvian country so I think I have fantasized what it would be like to go there a little bit.

I'm sure if I did I'd be wanting really badly to have some weed to smoke while visiting all of the beautiful lakes and looking at the scenery with a background of Finnish metal, but maybe it wouldn't be so easy to find weed to smoke there...

Either way, I'd like to visit and see their culture.
 
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most people in the older generation thing smoking a joint is as bad a line of yeyo.

It is exactly 100% as bad. That is to say, it's not bad at all. Or good! Doing drugs has no morality attached to it. We are responsible for all of our actions, including those resulting from drug use.

Anyway, that's my view of it, and it infuriates me that doing *XYZ substance* has any sort of bearing on the perceived worth of a person.

*mini rant over*

IMHO doing drugs in strict areas is fine, just keep hush hush at all times.

EDIT:

to answer the actual question, i think it is easy to stay indoctrinated when one has no practical use for the changing of opinion. if you are age 30 and your whole life you grew up believing that drugs other than alcohol are bad, and alcohol isn't so bad, there's little perceived benefit to exploration. all you hve been taught is that other stuff is dangerous. why risk ostracization or a risky situation in obtaining/doing other drugs when alcohol works just fine for escapism/hedonism? unless one can be thoroughly convinced that the truth they and everyone around them has believed so strongly for many years is NOT the truth, it is much safer to avoid rocking the boat. there is also a tendency of human psychology for us to disegard evidence for arguments that lie counter to what we currently hold as true, and in addition place higher value on any evidence, however weak, for our side. when we have a strong opinion about something (anything) we really hate changing our minds.
 
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There was a bit of a drug problem in Finland after the wars.
Many soldiers got hooked on cough medicine (heroin) and pervitin which is metamphetamine.
Finns consumed more heroin per capita than any country in the world in the 40's.
Hence the strict approach.

http://www.ww2f.com/topic/55292-fin...41-44-mountains-of-heroin-morphine-and-speed/
During the Winter War a ridiculous amount of drugs came to Finland. By the end of 1940, 1,511 kg. of opium alone was delivered to the military pharmacy in Helsinki. It was supplied mainly by the American Red Cross and the Swedish state. In December 1940 there were 117,000 heroin pills, 469,000 morphine pills, 917 kg. of opium and 351 kg. of morphine. There was certainly plenty of stuff for the Continuation War, which broke out in the following year. (some 250 million doses of heroin and morphine was used during Continuation War 1941-44)

Germany unloaded some of its Pervitin stocks in Finland. According to a secret letter of the medical department of the Defence Staff in August 1941, 850,000 Pervitin tablets were stockpiled by the Finnish Defence Forces. In emergency situations, especially during the big Soviet offensive of 1944, they were used heavily - even by ordinary foot soldiers.

The day is March 18, 1944.

A Finnish ski patrol in the terrain of Kantalahti in Finnish Lapland is on the third day of its mission behind enemy lines when the group is ambushed by Soviet forces at the foot of Kaitatunturi fell. During an intense firefight, the men manage to slip past the enemy who are trying to encircle them.

What ensues is a wild pursuit on skis. Aimo Koivunen, who opens the track in the virgin snow, feels his energy slipping away. The Russians are gaining on them until Koivunen remembers that he has the group's entire supply of Pervitin in his breast pocket. Before that he has taken a suspicious view of the strong stimulant that was given out to commando forces operating behind enemy lines, but now the situation is serious.

The men have to ski fast and it is not easy to dig out just one pill, so he dumps the whole supply - 30 pills - into his mitten. Soon Koivunen's skiing gets a new boost, and the whole patrol moves forward at a much faster pace.

This lasts for just a short time. Soon Koivunen notices distortions in his field of vision, and his consciousness begins to fade. The overdose of methamphetamine contained in the pills puts Koivunen into a state of delirium lasting several days, with alternating phases of wakefulness, sleep, and hallucinations.

His next recollection is from the next morning. He is 100 kilometres away. He has lost his patrol, and has no more ammunition, or food. Now he faces a real ordeal just to survive.

During the days that follow, Koivunen successfully flees Russian partisan forces, is injured by a land mine, and lies for a week in a pit in the snow waiting for help to arrive. He skis for more than 400 kilometres in temperatures of -20° C. During two weeks the only food he has are pine buds and a Siberian jay that he catches and eats raw.

When he is finally rescued and taken to a hospital his pulse rate is nearly 200 beats per minute and his weight has dropped to 43 kilos. Aimo Koivunen's adventure story is part of the history of Finland's wartime commando forces. But it is historical in another sense as well: Koivunen became one of the first Finns to overdose on speed.

Nowadays toking is becoming increasingly popular for people of all ages and the atmosphere is starting to loosen up.
 
^Yeah that, nice piece of history

Attitudes are changing here though. There have been many neutral or even positive news about cannabis in media and in television programs lately. I've even seen articles about psychedelics in positive light in some newspapers. I think it's only the older generation who think that prohibition is good. I know a lot of people (they're young ofc, in their twenties) and almost all of them are ok with at least cannabis. Because of legal issues people are afraid to say what they really think. You can even lose your driver's license if you get busted with drugs too many times (even when you don't drive under the influence), but that's pretty rare I think.

About alcohol, yeah, we are pretty fucked up when it comes to that. There are regulations to control alcohol use, like you can't buy beer (max 4.7% beer/cider) from grocery stores after 9PM. And only one monopoly, Alko, can sell spirits. Alcohol tax is ridiculous too.
 
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I don't live in Finland, but the southern neighbor Estonia. And yeah, the same shit around here. Alcohol is considered as a matter of course, and all other drugs (including cannabis) are considered unforgivable sins. The understanding of drug use around here is so retarded (literally) that it makes me cringe. I mean, we're still at the "reefer madness" stage for cannabis. 21st century in Estonia, everyone.
 
My view: They have not a big drug scene because they are north Europe which means lows are an important thing there and generally they don't do extreme things there. They drink much alcohol though because they are north. Norse people seem to have a good relationship with alcohol.
 
Alcohol is the most common drug in northern europe it is widely accepted and alcoholism is a big problem even amongst youths. There are plenty of chemicals and heroin is easyer to find than weed in copenhagen red light district where prostitution is legal. Consumption or possesion of small ammounts of drugs will get you a warning or a fine but if they catch you selling class A drugs you will go to prison.
 
I'm not from Finland and haven't ever been there. Everything I know comes from watching this documentary called "Reindeer Spotting". It centers around a small group of addicts whom are all addicted to and dependent upon Buprenorphine (Subutex). Throughout the documentary, the guys have some run ins with the cops for petty crimes. In one specific instance that I can remember, the "main" dude comes back from a few days locked up and he's totally sedated. He's pissed off because they wouldn't give him Opioids, but mentions 3 different sedatives including Temazepam (Restoril) that they gave him just because he was sick.

In the United States, it doesn't work like that. Even legitimate prescriptions that some would argue are necessary for survival will be withheld from inmates. You need insulin? Fill out a form for tomorrow morning's med call. If you forget to fill the form out the day before, well, you're fucked. Having seizures from Alcohol withdrawal in the drunk tank is a good way to annoy the guards and provoke isolation or maybe a light beating. You can sometimes get Ibuprofen if you ask nicely.

Again, I'm not gonna pretend that I know the situation, but those guys really made it seem like it wasn't so bad.
 
^ that is absolutely correct re: the American prison system. It's a disgrace. Not long ago a young woman in my home state died in her jail cell from severe dehydration while going through heroin withdrawal. The other prisoners who were with her tried to get the guards to help her but they did nothing. That was one of the most horrifying stories I'd read in a long time. And you can find many, many other stories of people left to rot in similar circumstances within the prison system nationwide.




But, on the other hand, I feel that the difference is this: in America the situation is looking noticeably better, in regards to criminal justice reform. Criminal justice/prison reform dovetails nicely with drug war reform and anti-police brutality campaigns, etc. It's an ascendant social movement, in my opinion...the people who are involved in the activist work are emboldened and on the offensive, they are no longer relegated to the farthest fringes of political life like they were just 20 years ago. Hell, in 2010 I remember having a conversation with a buddy in which we agreed that marijuana would never become legalized within our lifetimes...our logic then was name one country where weed is legal? As far as I knew weed was only decriminalized in nations with the most progressive policies, like the Netherlands

Now look where we are in regards to marijuana reform. When California and Massachusetts and other states legalize this Tuesday, the house of cards that was teetering will collapse. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it doesn't become easily accessible for a majority of the US population & removed from schedule 1 federally within 5 or 10 years. Pro-legalization beliefs in the 90's were fringe beliefs; now they're the mainstream. Even views on harder drugs have softened...the "opioid crisis", for example...the addicts in this current drug story craze have been portrayed more humanely and with more compassion than addicts in former eras, plus you hear a lot more rhetoric regarding it being fundamentally a public health concern rather than a strictly criminal justice issue. I'm old enough to remember the coverage of victims in the "meth crisis" and the "crack crisis" before that, and yeah...the less said about the media coverage regarding those things, the better.

The idea of the modern drug war as a social injustice that persists in the modern day is becoming more accepted in the body politic. I mean even the president acknowledges it at this point. And drug law reform & prison reform are obviously very intertwined issues. On the grassroots level you have several notable prison strikes in the last decade, sometimes involving simultaneous strikes in multiple facilities across multiple states, with assistance from advocacy groups outside the prisons themselves to coordinate.

I'm cautiously optimistic because I can't rule out the pro-drug war reactionaries scoring some kind of surprise victory, but drug law reform/criminal justice reform is one political issue that I am actually optimistic on, in the US political system. Probably the only issue actually, LOL. If trends continue I think we'll see more non-violent offenders being released from prison, more money getting cut from interdiction budgets, more weed being legal, more criminal records expunged etc. Good things! And that's why I think that the USA is one of the more interesting current examples of progressive reform (ironic considering that it has been the vanguard of repression against drugs both at home & abroad for so long)
 
^ that is absolutely correct re: the American prison system. It's a disgrace. Not long ago a young woman in my home state died in her jail cell from severe dehydration while going through heroin withdrawal. The other prisoners who were with her tried to get the guards to help her but they did nothing. That was one of the most horrifying stories I'd read in a long time. And you can find many, many other stories of people left to rot in similar circumstances within the prison system nationwide.




But, on the other hand, I feel that the difference is this: in America the situation is looking noticeably better, in regards to criminal justice reform. Criminal justice/prison reform dovetails nicely with drug war reform and anti-police brutality campaigns, etc. It's an ascendant social movement, in my opinion...the people who are involved in the activist work are emboldened and on the offensive, they are no longer relegated to the farthest fringes of political life like they were just 20 years ago. Hell, in 2010 I remember having a conversation with a buddy in which we agreed that marijuana would never become legalized within our lifetimes...our logic then was name one country where weed is legal? As far as I knew weed was only decriminalized in nations with the most progressive policies, like the Netherlands

Now look where we are in regards to marijuana reform. When California and Massachusetts and other states legalize this Tuesday, the house of cards that was teetering will collapse. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it doesn't become easily accessible for a majority of the US population & removed from schedule 1 federally within 5 or 10 years. Pro-legalization beliefs in the 90's were fringe beliefs; now they're the mainstream. Even views on harder drugs have softened...the "opioid crisis", for example...the addicts in this current drug story craze have been portrayed more humanely and with more compassion than addicts in former eras, plus you hear a lot more rhetoric regarding it being fundamentally a public health concern rather than a strictly criminal justice issue. I'm old enough to remember the coverage of victims in the "meth crisis" and the "crack crisis" before that, and yeah...the less said about the media coverage regarding those things, the better.

The idea of the modern drug war as a social injustice that persists in the modern day is becoming more accepted in the body politic. I mean even the president acknowledges it at this point. And drug law reform & prison reform are obviously very intertwined issues. On the grassroots level you have several notable prison strikes in the last decade, sometimes involving simultaneous strikes in multiple facilities across multiple states, with assistance from advocacy groups outside the prisons themselves to coordinate.

I'm cautiously optimistic because I can't rule out the pro-drug war reactionaries scoring some kind of surprise victory, but drug law reform/criminal justice reform is one political issue that I am actually optimistic on, in the US political system. Probably the only issue actually, LOL. If trends continue I think we'll see more non-violent offenders being released from prison, more money getting cut from interdiction budgets, more weed being legal, more criminal records expunged etc. Good things! And that's why I think that the USA is one of the more interesting current examples of progressive reform (ironic considering that it has been the vanguard of repression against drugs both at home & abroad for so long)

It's everything positive you are saying here that REALLY makes me hope that Kratom will stay legal after December 1st, and obviously the scene Kratom proponents have made is also indicative of the changing tide.

Do you ever watch the channel VICELAND??

I'd assume lots of bluelighters do...it should basically be considered the bluelight channel LOL.

They have a lot of shows with underlying themes pushing towards us no longer viewing drugs as taboo.

I seriously want ALL drugs to be decriminalized world wide and legal to use so long as you are 18 and not driving a car.

I want to see a world where the police's ONLY job is to stop REAL violent crime.
 
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