Why don't Americans travel

[haribo1]

When was this, where did you go, and why didn't you hit me up, bro?

Maybe he judged that meeting you would be too mental?

In the USA people earn crap wages, get next to no holidays AND pay more tax than most Europeans. I mean, how come I get complete free health care, a LEGAL minimum of 20 days holiday and, having epilepsy, free transport? All with lower taxation... Havn't you US guys ever been just a BIT suspicious that Europe manages to look after people so much better for so much less? Where ARE all your taxes going???

 

[Finder]

Yeah, fuck that blue collar thread. I still don't agree.

Of course there are tons of helpdesk and support positions, but that still doesn't mean development gigs are a "tiny niche." Perhaps folks looking for helpdesk positions are a dime a dozen but to say IT workers--in general--are, is wrong. There has been a lot of news in the last few years about an IT worker drought due to enrollment for IT-related programs being down. Sure it's not dot com boom, but it's no like they are no jobs available.

 

[9mmCensor]

They can have 100% of the world's hottest women but if I'm not alive to enjoy it what does it matter!!

Columbia? Afghanistan? Peru? Nice countries?

Nice try.

Cake. Weed. Opium.

I think so.

 

[Infinite Jest]

^when you take holiday, are the days off paid for?

i have more i want to say, but people are getting mad that i am sitting here arguing and they want food. i will be back tho

I don't think we're arguing, we're having an interesting discussion that is hopefully avoiding degenerating into "Americans are fat lazy and stupid" vs "foreigners are dumb and ugly and smelly and poor" :D.

To answer your question: I get four weeks paid leave (plus statutory holidays - about 10 days/year). We are encouraged (basically forced) to take two weeks over Christmas/New Year - it's the middle of summer, schools are on holiday, and govt depts/universities (where I work) shut down. I could probably take more leave (unpaid) if I wanted to. (But I work public sector - in the private sector it's a bit different). So holidays may be one of the reasons, as you say.

RC: yeah, it was pretty stupid the more I reflect on it

 

[haribo1]

Cake. Weed. Opium.

I think so.

Pity you shaved your awsome beard, Patrick... you could have posed as some sun god down in those places... 'I demand a tithe of...drugs'.

 

[randycaver]

Yeah, fuck that blue collar thread. I still don't agree.

Of course there are tons of helpdesk and support positions, but that still doesn't mean development gigs are a "tiny niche." Perhaps folks looking for helpdesk positions are a dime a dozen but to say IT workers--in general--are, is wrong. There has been a lot of news in the last few years about an IT worker drought due to enrollment for IT-related programs being down. Sure it's not dot com boom, but it's no like they are no jobs available.

I don't either.. def. not. most of the guys i've been friends with are in IT, so I definitely feel/felt their pain

What i meant by tiny niche is that it takes a special type of person to do programming. it takes a special kind of person to do database shit. a little bit of training and some interest and a common person can do general helpdesk work.

around here there are at least 4 schools that i can think of off the top of my head that advertise all over during the day, at job fairs, etc advertising their tech programs. they tell these people that they will be making bank as soon as they get out of their schooling (and usually it's an associates, most likely just an MCP, never anything like an MSCE) then they spit them out at local employers, and they are just too many of them. they're definitely treated like a dime a dozen, and they act like it too. the turnover rate is sky high lately, b/c of those f'ing schools.. they come out and make entry level pay and their hopes are dashed

 

[DigitalDuality]

well, in my opinion, life is now, not tomorrow or in 40 years

maybe in 40 years you won't travel because
a drunk driver will have settled the problem
you'll have family responsabilities
your buisness that you'll have worked all your life on will have bankrupted
you'll have committed suicide because your life was too boring
you just won't have the physical shape or motivation anymore

"all the guys that really have the money are too old to have a good time with it" Perry Farrel

there's a balance between the person irresponsibly trying to do nothing who lives for now, who finds themselves old.. with a lot of experiences, but more financial troubles then they can shake and the person who works themselves to death has all the money in the world.. and grows old, lonely and no one there for them. How will they retire? Afford medical bills? Put those future kids through college and give them half a chance in the world? Only if they hadn't pissed away their time and money with their own entertainment..... a life of pleasure now, can lead to absolute hell later on.

You make a point, i make a point. There's a happy ground somewhere in between.

Life shouldn't be all work and no play, always preparing for tomorrow. But, i wouldn't be as rash to say "paying bills is boring". Sure it is, but it can sure fuck you over if you don't.

Having fun and experiencing life is great. But take care of business first, or business will take care of you.

No offense to you, i've had many friends who i would deam somewhere the "free spirit" type. Doing what they can while they're young and pushing responsibilities off 'til tomorrow. They're great to hang around with, normally pretty positive people. But i find at 25, 30 years old..they're still couch surfing at their friends who are now 10 years younger than them, they can't hold a job and don't have the necessary outlook on life to get their shit together when they need to.

Then i look at the people who are, typical american dream, and ...all work, corporate kiss asses, clean cut, suit and tie, 20 hours overtime, neglect their own mental health, families, friends, hobbies..

Both, don't have a sense of balance. And i feel neither "get" life. Not saying i'm a perfect example. I've spent time working too hard, i've spent time fucking around too much and spending my money foolishly. I've committed both wrongs. So it's not that i'm judging. But it's those on those ends of the extremes, i feel who die and wish they did things a bit differently. Whether it was prepared more for the future, or had more fun when they could.

 

[9mmCensor]

Pity you shaved your awsome beard, Patrick... you could have posed as some sun god down in those places... 'I demand a tithe of...drugs'.

Im growin it back.

 

[randycaver]

I don't think paying bills is annoying

I think it's exciting that I can afford to pay bills.

It must be nice to travel around on someone else's dime. on someone else's money that they earned, and you didn't, but not everybody else has that luxury.

i get more joy out of being self sufficient *right now* than i probably would out of traveling to Europe with my Dad's credit card. Independence means more to me ....... than a memory, at this point.

there are always the what ifs, if you don't travel now, you'll never be able to.. but ya know traveling might vary in importance to different people. i think i would appreciate traveling more if i did it sporadically rather than ALL the time, as opposed to having a checklist that I can tell people about so they know how cultured and awesome i am.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I'm an American who's been to 15 countries. But most of these were visited either on the way to, or whilst living in, Taiwan. If you want to be within range of other countries for travel, both price- and distance-wise, best move out of North America.

If I just want a quick, relaxing, shallow-ish vacation experience like a beach, a mountain hike, a quaint little village, or a big cosmopolitan city, why fly out of the US? I'm from the Northeast, and all of these things are a cheap and doable drive away.

I can only justify spending the time and money to get overseas if it's for a deep cultural immersion, in which case I'm MOVING there temporarily. Honestly, I could see myself uprooting my family in the future, if the government of Kerblakistan is willing to give me a work visa and a license to practice medicine. I think if every American spent a year or two overseas, preferably as a child, America would be a better country.

Many people overestimate how rich Americans are. For the average American, a plane ticket overseas could easily cost several weeks' salary. It took me 9 months of scrimping and saving before I had enough for my one way train trip across Eurasia to get to Taiwan.

 

[Raving Loony]

I don't think paying bills is annoying

I think it's exciting that I can afford to pay bills.

It must be nice to travel around on someone else's dime. on someone else's money that they earned, and you didn't, but not everybody else has that luxury.

i get more joy out of being self sufficient *right now* than i probably would out of traveling to Europe with my Dad's credit card. Independence means more to me ....... than a memory, at this point.

there are always the what ifs, if you don't travel now, you'll never be able to.. but ya know traveling might vary in importance to different people. i think i would appreciate traveling more if i did it sporadically rather than ALL the time, as opposed to having a checklist that I can tell people about so they know how cultured and awesome i am.

A big part of travelling overseas for is just experiencing life as others outside my country do so I may learn to appreaciate how good I have it or don't have it at home. Last year while in Norway I just fell in love with the whole place, it's beauty, riches and the people. If I had of done it when I was ten years younger I may well have moved there. Similarly, I fell in love with New York twenty years ago but I was only 12 back then.

I live in a country town and my modest annual income of around $60k US is hardly anything good by first world standards, but my bills get paid, save and I still have an overseas travel budget. I do find it fascinating that so many Americans simply don't go. I was on a bus full of them in Spain a couple of years back and every one of them would be welcome in my house if they came here. But sadly for most of them they won't be holidaying overseas for a long time.

 

[DigitalDuality]

it's not just what americans make. Culturally speaking people from nations tend to spend differently.

For instance, in japan.. what we spend on our homes and transportation.. in Tokyo they tend to spend on clothing, accessories, and eating out. In america it's a staple to entertain friends, family, even work associates in your home.. so a lot of money goes into that... or to build to have that. In japan, they tend to entertain out.. so not a lot of money is put into 10 year, 15 year and even 20 year long payments for major purchases. It's a cultural staple. In japan, that expense isn't as great and is directed towards other things. Those kinds of expenses are easier to hold off of is one was to travel. A mortgage, car payment, insurance payment, etc.. is not.

And lets look at cell phones for instance. Europeans and asians have it awesome in this regard. We pay answer from 40-70 bucks (taking we don't get a deal) for the bottom of the line phone. Some spend up to 100-500 on them. Our bills on average are at least 80 bucks a month. And we HAVE to sign a 2 year contract. Sure we can do pay-as-you-go but that tends to be more expensive and lacks in features.

an american can travel to europe, get a cell phone, use it for 2 weeks and pay what most americans might pay for our lunches throughout the course of a week.

It's not so simple to say one culture makes this much versus another, and this costs this and this costs that. It's a pretty multidynamic thing to really analyze. Cultural spending habits, the way various markets are shaped and how they lock people in, etc..

And lets throw in medical expenses. much of europe has social programs that many take part of. Medical care here is expensive, and if you happen to be uninsured and something bad happens.. well that's another bill.

and while this isn't me... many americans buy stupidly expensive cars, which use a lot of gas... again, most expense.

i'm not saying one culture is right or wrong in terms of spending habits.. i have my opinions on each habit, but it's just different in many regards.

of course i'm speaking in generalities here.

 

[9mmCensor]

different cultures are different.

 

[DigitalDuality]

A big part of travelling overseas for is just experiencing life as others outside my country do so I may learn to appreaciate how good I have it or don't have it at home. Last year while in Norway I just fell in love with the whole place, it's beauty, riches and the people. If I had of done it when I was ten years younger I may well have moved there. Similarly, I fell in love with New York twenty years ago but I was only 12 back then.

I live in a country town and my modest annual income of around $60k US is hardly anything good by first world standards, but my bills get paid, save and I still have an overseas travel budget. I do find it fascinating that so many Americans simply don't go. I was on a bus full of them in Spain a couple of years back and every one of them would be welcome in my house if they came here. But sadly for most of them they won't be holidaying overseas for a long time.

i don't think she was really commenting on travelling as a whole, but more on the rich.. (self made, old money, or spoiled kids) who travel all over the world who act like going to another country is like .. us spending 300-400 to go a beach.

Where us, who have little, truly appreciate the nature and the experience of the beach, you'll see those who have travelled all the time tend to take it for granted.

it's awesome to be able to do things in moderation and truly take it all in and appreciate it.. rather than go "oh, yet another trip..yippe! " /sarcasm.

I can't tell you the number of rich families i know that travel..and go ..1000s of miles away to have family fights. or just to go shopping. I don't think they really appreciate where they're at and the different things to appreciate. It's too easily taken for granted when you can... and do... do it all the time.

Eat chocolate every meal for a week and tell me if you want some more for Sunday's dinner.

 

[Infinite Jest]

it's not just what americans make. Culturally speaking people from nations tend to spend differently.

It's not so simple to say one culture makes this much versus another, and this costs this and this costs that. It's a pretty multidynamic thing to really analyze. Cultural spending habits, the way various markets are shaped and how they lock people in, etc..


i'm not saying one culture is right or wrong in terms of spending habits.. i have my opinions on each habit, but it's just different in many regards.

of course i'm speaking in generalities here.

I think you're on to something here . To me, looking at my friends here in NZ and the Americans I know via BL, there's a big difference in spending patterns. You guys seem to be waaay more into stuff like electronics (PCs, Wii's, Playstations, big TV's, etc), and seem to spend a lot more money on gifts and celebrations for Christmas, birthdays, etc. We tend to be less into that, but more into saving money to spend on travel. So that might be part of the difference. Different cultures, different priorities (like you, I'm not saying one is better than the other).

Raving Loony (slightly off-topic here): no offence, but most of the first world would consider US$60,000 per year to be pretty good. My current salary works out at about half that.

 

[randycaver]

in a country town.. 60k is probably like having 80k or more in a city ... cost of living, etc.

 

[DigitalDuality]

if i made 60k, i'd be travelling.

 

[applesbliss]

if i made 60k, i'd be travelling.

You don't need 60k in order to travel. I hardly ever have more than 4k in the bank.

The hardest part for me in 2001 before I left the U.S was just making that "jump". Everyone is so afraid about what's out there, about what will happen if they leave their safety spot. I know it's easier said than done, but you really just need to do it.

I guess I was also lucky. In 2001-2002, I was able to make the U.S dollar go far at a time when it was very strong. Here are some examples that I recently sent to a friend:

- When I was in Fiji in 2001 it was $1 = $2.50 Fijian dollars. Now it's $1 = $1.45 Fijian dollars.

- When I was in New Zealand in 2001 it was $1 = $2.30 N.Z dollars. Now it's $1 = $1.35 N.Z dollars.

- I've never been to Europe before, but I wish now that I would have gone in 2002. In 2002 it was $1 = € 1.12 Euros. Now it's $1 = € .74 Euros.

- When I first went to Thailand in 2003 it was $1 = 43 Thai baht. Now it's currently $1 = 32 Thai baht.

- The U.S dollar has also dropped sharply against the Australian dollar, Canadian dollar, Malaysian ringgit, Japanese yen, Singapore dollar, Chinese yuan, Indian rupee, Philippino peso, and many more currencies in the last six months.

Almost everywhere is expensive for U.S dollars now, except for some countries in central / South America, some countries in the Caribbean, and Africa.

You don't need to be rich to travel by any stretch of the imagination, especially in south-east Asia. Air travel is very cheap right now with many budget airlines like Air Asia, JetStar Asia, and Tiger Airways which use brand new Airbus A-320 airplanes and will take you from Singapore to Bali for sometimes less than $25 (check their web sites for promotions). You just need to be able to think in a long-term kind of way. If you want to fly to Thailand and party for a week on the beach and then leave, well of course it will be expensive because you had to pay all of that money on transportation. However, if you want to backpack around south-east Asia for 6 months, then you'd probably spend less in 6 months than you would in 1 and a half months in the U.S or Australia.

Happy travels.

 

[DigitalDuality]

i've never had 4 k in the bank. 3k at most. and that was a while ago.

 

[applesbliss]

i've never had 4 k in the bank. 3k at most. and that was a while ago.

See Sim0n's post above. People tend to spend a lot of money on things they don't really need and I might add... also paying too much for things they DO need.

Forget about paying $5 to eat a meal. When in China, Taiwan, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc..etc... a good meal with fresh foods can be had for .50.

Stop being so jaded about money. Do you own money or does money own you? Similar to that old Soviet Union joke...
"In corporate America... dollar owns you."

I use to spend $600 / month in L.A for a shitty little room working some 45-hour/week I.T job just to meet bills.

If you taught English overseas maybe you could have 4K in the bank within two months.