Opioids Why do people quit using opiates in a variety of ways?

[teological]

Hey BL. Sorry if the title offended anyone, I mean it, but it was also an attempt to get people to respond

I am three weeks clean off of opiates. Have been on and off for such a long time now (4+years), but I have always managed to WD with success.

My question; why are lots of opiate users unable to quickly taper and stop using altogether? So many management programs with Methadone etc (where you are basically taking opiates to stave off WD). I hear of months and months of tapering, and then using Loperamide or other opiate subsitutes for long lengths of time.

I have been up to 300mgs of Morphine a day and have quit with ease. I once tried to go Cold Turkey and woke up with extreme sweates just DRIPPING from my forehead and body all over the floor and had to re-dose to stop the WDs. But I quickly found a easy solution;

Day 1 - Usually I just feel a little off and a little bit sweaty and hotter at night. I can sleep, or will use a sleep aid if having trouble.

Day 2- Will wake up in full blown, hell of a withdrawal, so what I do on this day is if my original dose was 300mg, take something like 200mg. This will stop WD.

Day 3- I will again wake up in WD, but they will be so minimal that I have to stop and focus on the pain throughout my body to realise that I am WD.

If you look at it this way; Day1 = 24 hours (No Dose) Day2= 24 hours (200mg Dose) Day3= Say in the morning it has been + another 12 hours ffrom last nights sleep etc

= 60 hours with only 200mgs of morphine in your body. The WD's can not be intense and on Day 3 they are so minimal. So why don't people just bloody taper? Why do they need to go on all these programs of taking opiates legally to stop WDing?

 

[Tryptamite]

Individual body chemistry. Do no be so quick to question others. What works for you may not work for the guy down the road.

 

[Tommyboy]

300mg of morphine isn't that big of a habit for a lot of the people on here, so I would say that your worst withdrawals wouldn't even come close to the withdrawals that a lot of people on here experience. Availability is another big factor. If you have very easy access to dope while trying to kick it's pretty easy to give in and cop, especially if you have dealers calling you saying they are down the block from you and have fire dope for cheaper than usual.

 

[thesameoldfears]

Yeah 300mg of morphine is such a tiny habit compared to a lot of us on bl. Do you IV or taake them orally? Even if all of it is Iv it's just not that much so it would go to say that your withdrawals aren't on par with people with bigger habits so it would make sense you have an easier time. Also it's possible you're just stronger willed than some people. There's nothing wrong with going on opiate replacwment therapy and it helps a lot of people live their lives in a morre successful manner than the highs and lows of active addiction.

Also if getting clean was only about making it through the accute withdrawals then there would be a lot less people still using. Making it through acute withdrawals is fucking easy compared to PAWS and all the psychological symptoms that come in the weeks, months, and years following cessation of opiate use. Yeah withdrawals suck and they're fucking miserable, but for me at least, the real struggle is the PAWS etc afterwards, trying to deal with the physical pain, the intense boredom and apathy, the cravings, the depression, anxiety, and just lack of will to live. Opiate replacement therapy can really really help with these things.

 

[beengerman]

300mg of morphine isn't that big of a habit for a lot of the people on here, so I would say that your worst withdrawals wouldn't even come close to the withdrawals that a lot of people on here experience. Availability is another big factor. If you have very easy access to dope while trying to kick it's pretty easy to give in and cop, especially if you have dealers calling you saying they are down the block from you and have fire dope for cheaper than usual.

couldn't have said it better.

 

[littlepenguin]

Hey BL. Sorry if the title offended anyone, I mean it, but it was also an attempt to get people to respond

offending people here by means of basically insulting those who have a difficult time getting off drugs probably isn't the best way to gather useful responses.

I am three weeks clean off of opiates. Have been on and off for such a long time now (4+years), but I have always managed to WD with success.

Huh. Well that kinda answers your question right there, doesn't it?
If you're so good at tapering off drugs, then why aren't you so good at avoiding relapsing?

My question; why are lots of opiate users unable to quickly taper and stop using altogether?

again - my same question above stands; if you're so good at tapering so quickly, than why have you had an addiction to morphine for 4+ years?

drugs, specifically opiates, are physically and mentally addicting. often times, it's easier just to keep doing it than to take the work and time it takes to quit. for me, I don't use opiates, but with my drug of choice, in my head, I don't have the time to quit and go through withdrawals. I have a job that I work at everyday and I don't have the luxury of taking 2 weeks off to suffer through not having my drug of choice (yes, I am fully aware that this is a bullshit excuse as is any excuse to not quit, but is a prime example of why it's easy to perpetuate one's drug addiction - this doesn't even include the physical woes of quitting, the massive depression, the whole entire life change of not revolving your life around drugs, having to eliminate many friends from your life who use to help yourself to not be tempted by their drug use, filling the gaps of time with sober activities that you used to easily fill with drugs...you get the point...)

...and had to re-dose to stop the WDs.

...and there you just answered your own question.
what was easier for you at that moment? grabbing another dose or calling your friends and family and confessing your drug addiction to them and asking for them to drop everything and help you get into rehab?
obviously: re-dosing.

so, as you started your thread with an apology for making an offensive thread in hopes of getting people to respond to your 'question,' I'll end my response with an apology for what I'm about to say:
maybe you should stop and take a moment to think about exactly what it is that you just typed out before you post it, because really, all you're doing here is bragging that you're so good at skating through withdrawals, but in the same breath, making yourself look like a bonehead when stating that you're riding on a 4+ year off and on addiction. Um...hello???
I congratulate you on your 3 weeks of sobriety, and I truly hope that this will be the last taper/quit time you'll ever have to go through.

But, tell me - what the hell kind of answer do you expect here? And how could asking this question possibly benefit yourself or benefit anyone else viewing this forum that is either in the throes of drug addiction or trying to quit?

 

[morphonorconic]

Patronizing others for their inability to control addiction is counterproductive to the aim of this forum. I agree that many make things harder than they need to be when it comes to tapering and quitting opioids. I've stopped and started dozens of times due to having to, wanting to, running out and waiting weeks/months for a refill/new prescription etc. But this is only after years of experience, and when I was really abusing opioids and had a habit way bigger than your's (not dicksizing, making a point) things were different. It took the girl I loved leaving me to drive the point home that it was time to change and take control of my life. I have an addictive personality, and for me basically everything is all or nothing.

Some can use drugs and stop. Others can't. The rest fall somewhere in between. That's human physiology... What are you asking here? Why addicts don't simply stop being addicted? It wouldn't be called 'Addiction' if it came down to a choice between reinforcement or extinction of a problematic/aversive behavior. It's not a simple 1:1. There are complex neurological mechanisms involved that we are only beginning to understand. Consider yourself lucky.

 

[ArtVandalay]

After using ppt daily for 6 years, cold turkey was not an option. I tried many times, it was simply too painful. I tried to taper but couldn't deal with even the mild wd. I tried to switch to Keatom and was more successful. But at that point I had a psychotic break due to mdpv + meth use. The cat was out of the bag and my fam took me to the sob clinic. Opiate replacement saved my life. Sub ozone took away all cravings and restored my sanity and now I lead a normal life. Dont be so quick to judge.

 

[evilblueberry]

It seems you are so quick to believe your way is right. Everyones body chemistry is different and consider yourself lucky to be able to stop that easily. I remember the first time I quit, I thought it was easy and not a huge deal. Each time after that got harder and harder. The mind plays tricks and withdrawal is extremely mental in addition to physical. I need to quit again myself soon and the reason I don't taper is because for me personally tapering does not work. It's too easy to make an excuse to have a little bit more or too just drag it out painfully long so thats why I think I prefer to just quit cold turkey with supplements I'm thinking.

 

[teological]

Huh. Well that kinda answers your question right there, doesn't it?
If you're so good at tapering off drugs, then why aren't you so good at avoiding relapsing?
QUOTE]

Woah, guys I think I have been misunderstood big time. Firstly I am also an opiate user, so what ever I say about users includes me 10fold (no one loves them more than me) and my initial title was a half assed attempt at a joke. I apologise. My question does not infer that I am trying to make myself look better...I just do not understand why people don't taper to avoid the really intense WDs, and/or go on opiate programs to avoid WDing altogether.

I relapse because I never want to quit...I just take breaks to lower my tolerance, I do not plan on quitting for a long time.

What I wanted to get out of my question was some answers on why tapering quickly and WDing is not more popular...if I could stop severe WD with just one dose inbetween three days.

I was also hoping to get some info on PAWS...because I do get PAWS when I take my breaks. One of the major symptom is severe boredom. So if someone is on a maintainence treatment program and avoiding withdrawal but not getting high, do they not experience boredom? Do they not get PAWS? This is where I was hoping the convo would go towards, on why people prefer to maintain and have it in their system rather than not have it in their system...

 

[Halif]

Maybe... just maybe... some people are taking opiates because it keeps them functioning and performing their day to day duties.

Maybe, for some people, taking drugs isn't about having a good time. Rather, it's about staying alive.

It's hard to explain to people who do not have severe suicidal depression that existing is hard work. I don't hate life. I love it. I love the people around me. But I feel crushed by an invisible force which I can't understand, as if there's a higher power that doesn't want me to be here on this Earth, and that makes the most simple things really hard to do. I don't derive any enjoyment from the mainstream model of society, but I have to function in it because I'm tangled up in jobs and social circles and I really, really, don't want to let people down by .. uhh.. killing myself.

I drug myself up so that I can interact with the world and maybe by being here something good will come of it.

Good luck to us all!

 

[DickTate]

What I wanted to get out of my question was some answers on why tapering quickly and WDing is not more popular...if I could stop severe WD with just one dose inbetween three days.

Because it prolongs the withdrawls in my experience and resets parts of it.
Regarding the maintenance therapy and PAWS, I never experienced the latter while I was taking Buprenorphine. But I had always a pretty small habit, no higher potent opioids, no IV etc. I was only on 1mg for about two months, so I guess that plays a pretty big role.

 

[Sprout]

I'm currently CTing from alcohol and opiates simultaneously in the middle of a manic-depressive episode. My reason for stopping is I don't feel human. I could fucking end all of this pain in half an hour (not suicide, scoring) but for once I'm going to beat this/these god forsaken illness/es.

 

[drkiv]

OP, I'm a believer in a taper as well. 36 hours in, I took a 1/4 of the low end of a normal dose for me. 24 hours after that, took half of that. Went to the store and purchased some kratom capsules. I've been dosing 1.5-2 grams every 5-8 hours. It has worked very well in conjunction to taper. My taper has been a 2 week process. Yes, it takes discipline and motivation. But my life is one that can't stop because of something I got myself into. I can't be totally incapacitated for a week and be at 1/3-1/2 speed for weeks thereafter. 72 hours in, I've been exercising twice a day. Yea, I'm a little sore but it has made a huge difference.
I don't believe in CT method. The shock your body goes through, I believe prolongs the recovery process. It just adds to the physical trauma. Why not ease down, supplement your body with loads of vitamins, nutrients and start restoring it to a normal state. My .03 cents...

 

[Toz]

The problem for most people I think is not withdrawing from opiates, most of us can handle a bit of suffering once in a while. However if you keep relapsing and going through withdrawal over and over, what's the point? Better just get on maintenance and have a life instead.

Also OP your method of quitting opiates would not work at all for me. Individual body chemistry. For me there is only two ways to quit opiates, either an excruciatingly long taper where I probably will feel like shit for months, or cold turkey and feel like absolute hell for one month. Both alternatives suck.

 

[teological]

The problem for most people I think is not withdrawing from opiates, most of us can handle a bit of suffering once in a while. However if you keep relapsing and going through withdrawal over and over, what's the point? Better just get on maintenance and have a life instead.
QUOTE]

So going on maintenance, you can not relapse because you can not get high from full agonists right? So is there not a drug that is not opiate based but blocks the receptors? Or do you need to have that opiate in your system, regardless of if you are high or not? I have really been pondering these questions.

I started to realise that if I got high in the mornings, by night time even though I was not high anymore, I did not feel like getting high and was just normal. But if I had not dosed that day, I HAD TO GET HIGH at least once.

The way I halfed the intensity of the withdrawal really suprised me, and each time i read about long tapers or extreme cold turkey suffering i just think of the method that worked for me. I mean some people are scared to jump off of 300mg a day Codeine habit..I get the indication that sometimes people sort of want to think that they are in deeper than they really are..?

 

[Lady Codone]

1.) Some people get worse symptoms than others. This depends on personal body chemistry and how much/long you used. Puking and diarrhea are common but I've never experienced them, for instance.

2.) Some people can handle stress better than others. Those of us with underlying mental health problems can't tolerate stress as well as healthy people. Withdrawal is an emotional rollercoaster. Imagine that on top of something like bipolar disorder or depression. Self-harm, suicide attempts and psychosis can make withdrawals life-threatening for some people.

3.) Will power. Some of us have it, others lack it. Some people get hardcore cravings when withdrawing, others don't (I fall into the second group).

As long as people get clean, that's all that matters. As with all things in medicine, there is no one-size-fits-all treatment for addiction.

 

[beengerman]

The problem for most people I think is not withdrawing from opiates, most of us can handle a bit of suffering once in a while. However if you keep relapsing and going through withdrawal over and over, what's the point? Better just get on maintenance and have a life instead.

Also OP your method of quitting opiates would not work at all for me. Individual body chemistry. For me there is only two ways to quit opiates, either an excruciatingly long taper where I probably will feel like shit for months, or cold turkey and feel like absolute hell for one month. Both alternatives suck.

hell yeah

 

[bennyZA]

I'm still confused at what you are asking. I get the jist of it, but what kinda answer are you looking for. Essentially, you are asking why people can't withdraw the same way as you do. No offense, but your kinda asking a rude question. Your suggesting that you know something other's don't, and that you don't understand why people aren't as good as you at WDing.

I just do not understand why people don't taper to avoid the really intense WDs, and/or go on opiate programs to avoid WDing altogether.

A lot of people don't understand a lot of things about a lot of other peoples use, including cessation. From what I've read on BL and from my own experience, the vast majority of people do taper. Also, a ton of people do WD programs. There are literally hundreds upon hundreds of pages on BL discussing different methods for WD, including slow taper and rapid taper. It may be super easy for you, but for people who have been using much more than you, for much longer than you, it isn't as simple as you make it sound. A lot of people WDing with a taper are still looking at months of agony. If your system worked so well, do you think others wouldn't have thought of it yet. Some of the super detailed WD regimes (including a taper as well as a host of other meds) on BL are much more thought out than yours (not trying to offend, just true) and the users still deal with a lot of pain.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

It may be super easy for you, but for people who have been using much more than you, for much longer than you, it isn't as simple as you make it sound.

+1. This. ^^