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Why do people have kids?

Waffle Sock

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
9,195
:?Serious question I have been contemplating recently. I understand there once existed an era in [Western] civilization where more kids = more bodies = more helping hands to tend the farm, fetch water, etc. I used to silently scorn people who expressed their disinterest or disagreement with having kids, presumptuously believing them to be somewhat heartless or selfish. Now, I'm realizing that children are an unnecessary responsibility and there is certainly no obligation to have any. With over 7 billion people, I think the human species is adequately populated in terms of species continuity. In my opinion, this world is a terrible place to live; nature is indiscriminate in regards to survivability, having the child susceptible to succumbing to nature's wrath. In addition, the deceptive, vehement, destructive disposition of mankind can ruin your child in a plethora of ways. The psychological toll that these possibilities (or realities) can have on a parent are true because of the primordial emotional investment one places in their child. Is this emotional investment worth it? ... Worth what exactly? Preserving a finite being with your genetics to hopefully outlive you? Since we are all mortal why is this important?

One could argue that children can bring (temporary) joy, which is personally subjective, and the contrary is easily proven.

I think kids are cool, but I don't see any benefit or reason for me having any.
 
Well. there is many different ways to look at it. I have 4 kids and love getting gifts from all of them lol. Nooo but seriously.... kids are great if you raise them right. I raised my kids in a bubble people tell me and they all turned out great. Kids are wonderful when your older and dont have anyone. When your bitch of wife leaves u and u have to start over....or simply you grow old and the state wants to put your ass in a home. I told my kids they better make sure since i took care of them and gave them a great life they better make sure im good when i poop on myself. lol I will leave you with this.... What will be will be. Dont make plans just let the chips fall where they may. :)
 
Carry on what has carried on. In a sense they are your spirit, and your afterlife (not that I think this precludes another form of afterlife). They will be your identity in years to come. If you care about the world/have interest in it and want to contribute to it, you find someone who you like in it and have sex, and children.

You are right about us being populated enough. We seem to be in a strange place. I probably won't have kids, but I would if conditions were right.
 
There are few logical reasons to have children these days for many of us. Gone are most of the traditional reasons, left is the notion that we need to leave a part of ourselves behind.

Kids cost time, money, effort etc. You lose certain freedoms to do whatever you want whenever. They cost a whole fuckton of money and you've actually got to do shit to make sure they don't turn out total assholes. What do you get in return? 'Joy' yeah, haha, no thanks.

In some societies the children would look after you when you get too old to do it yourself, they'd take over the family's land/business etc. Who needs that now?

Kids? Just say no! There's too many as it is.
 
Establishing a family with a wife and kid(s) has become the norm, people feel secure and accomplished following an "orthodox" living. I guess children become personal values, and knowing you'll contribute with bringing the generation further gives some sort of satisfaction.
 
The only thing this planet has too many of is old people with outdated ideas and a selfish attitudes. Every kid is a fresh slate to mould and nurture into a better society.

Well okay, we probably have too many of those dirty fly blown kids, with fat bellies who are always crying and moaning. You can never have too many cute smart arse kids though. My two kids are awesome. Who else would I go skateboarding with? Who else can I tell fart jokes to? Who else will speak their mind about how stupid smoking is when out in public, loud enough for the dude to hear? Who else would I introduce the evolution of heavy metal, from Sabbath to RATM, on the hour long drive home from school? Not every one is cut out to be a parent, but when you are good at it there is no reason not to have kids.
 
you should probably not have any, then.

alasdair

definitely. i've known good-for-nothing shitheads that became genuinely good and caring people after their first kid. a selfish person will just see a kid as a responsibility; a time/money sink, but most people see that kids are potential that you as an adult can invest in, in the hope that they will create a better future through the lessons they learned from you.

actually i've just reacquainted myself with someone i don't particularly like all that much, a fairly self-centred person who had a kid but didn't really care about the kid and instead spent more money investing in things that provide financial returns. well, now he's an old fucker and he has his money to keep him warm but from what i can see it's nothing like having the love of a good family.
 
So really, you could say those reasons are also selfish. "Oh, I better have children so I've got someone to love me when I'm old". There are lots of selfish reasons for having child, it's just a different kind of selfish as to why I don't want children.
 
I don't see how creating more humans who have empathy and love towards you can be selfish. It's not like you can force anyone to love you unless you yourself are a good person. If you are a terrible human your kids will still hate you when you are old. If you are a good parent it usually means you are a good human too, which would only benefit the planet as a whole.
 
One could create a "good human".. only to be viciously destroyed by a bad human (given that he matures far enough to understand/emulate the difference of the two.) History and current events prove this self-destructive behavior of humanity.
 
Then get rid of the bad people. Kids are a fresh start. They are a clean slate where you can change the world one mind at a time. We can argue whether or not there are too many people in the world but what is the point of confronting this from the base? We should be exterminating the older members of society who are no good. Knowing what is right or wrong isn't that hard. By the time you are an adult you are either an asset or a hindrance to the planet. Perhaps we should be a little more selective who we let stay here.

Personally I don't think everyone should have the right to be a parent. There are probably more people on this planet who should have been a blow job, but for the most part that is the fault of their parents. My goal in life is to raise two kids who are an asset. When they go to school my fellow parents should be trying to create a classroom full of wonderful humans. Every school should be full of these classes and each school will build the kind of community I want to live in. We can make the planet better but you do this by tending the soil and removing the weeds, not by sowing with salt so nothing can grow.
 
:?Serious question I have been contemplating recently. I understand there once existed an era in [Western] civilization where more kids = more bodies = more helping hands to tend the farm, fetch water, etc. I used to silently scorn people who expressed their disinterest or disagreement with having kids, presumptuously believing them to be somewhat heartless or selfish. Now, I'm realizing that children are an unnecessary responsibility and there is certainly no obligation to have any. With over 7 billion people, I think the human species is adequately populated in terms of species continuity. In my opinion, this world is a terrible place to live; nature is indiscriminate in regards to survivability, having the child susceptible to succumbing to nature's wrath. In addition, the deceptive, vehement, destructive disposition of mankind can ruin your child in a plethora of ways. The psychological toll that these possibilities (or realities) can have on a parent are true because of the primordial emotional investment one places in their child. Is this emotional investment worth it? ... Worth what exactly? Preserving a finite being with your genetics to hopefully outlive you? Since we are all mortal why is this important?

One could argue that children can bring (temporary) joy, which is personally subjective, and the contrary is easily proven.

I think kids are cool, but I don't see any benefit or reason for me having any.
I once asked my father why he had children, and he said, "Having a kid is like getting a dog. You can do whatever you want to it."

My gf has been nagging me about wanting children. She will say things like I have 3 university degrees, an IQ well over 140, and am physically "athletic;" therefore I should pass on my genes. That and both of us are educated and could possibly raise children right if we put the work into it. But I'll leave her if she pushes it.

Children are great but not for me either. I don't know if that's because my childhood was a living hell, and I don't want to even subconsciously perpetrate on any child anything remotely resembling waht my parents did to me. Maybe I'm just immune to Baby Fever. Also I have a genetic condition that I'm not willing to risk inflicting on a child.

Sometimes I try to look at having children from the perspective of a newborn baby who has complete self-awareness and is in full knowledge of the current events and world history. In addition to the risk of being born into a bad family or screwed up by the hateful, stupid, impulsive, and destructive disposition of humanity in general, I think that being born in the current decades are too difficult to "make it" and live a happy, fulfilled, prosperous, self-actualized life. Just look at the unemployment rate for recent college grads, in all fields, including "STEM," thanks to the flood of H1Bs, outsourcing, off-shoring, mass layoffs, "inversion", etc. If I had a choice of being born now, I wouldn't want to. The post world war II economic boom is long gone, socio-economic inequity grows, and upward mobility is becoming increasingly difficult. The USA is in bad shape, and the economy hasn't undergone a "real" recovery and shows no signs of improving. Europe is in bad shape as well. South America, China, Russia aren't Lands of Opportunity either. Too many people, through no fault of their own, just aren't able to achieve prosperity nowadays. Unless you win the lottery of birth into the 1%, it's not worth it.
1000 words: I don't see how creating more humans who have empathy and love towards you can be selfish. It's not like you can force anyone to love you unless you yourself are a good person. If you are a terrible human your kids will still hate you when you are old. If you are a good parent it usually means you are a good human too, which would only benefit the planet as a whole.
Yeah, but what kind of future can you offer them? Unless you are rich enough to give them a level playing field, you can't guarantee (or even offer reasonable assurance that they will be rewarded with a good job if they study in school or work hard in the current era) anything unless you let them live at home all their lives and leave them a huge inheritance. Even if you're a fantastic parent and pay for their schooling, the odds of rising to middle class or remaining there are more difficult now. Poverty and suffering will become the rule rather than the exception even in developed countries. Quality of life is rapidly deteriorating. The economy is ruined, the income gap grows, the middle class shrinks. Unemployment for recent college graduates is more than 20% across the developed world, and taking into account "under employment," it's even worse. People with college degrees bag my groceries. PhDs are on food stamps. Retiring Baby Boomers drain an increasingly large share of the GDP as they collect an ever bigger share of entitlements: social security, retirement benefits, pensions that the rest of us working stiffs pay for through our taxes. They drive up medicare and medicaid costs. Commonly during a single hospital visit, they ring up $10,000 + in medical bills for frivolous and unneeded procedures (with the collusion of corrupt physicians) by getting an MRI every time they stub their big toe. For the rest of us, it's cheaper to let nature take its course and even die rather than pay for medical care. Race riots, oil wars, the spread of religious fundamentalism, the destruction of entire cultures and their history are all happening RIGHT NOW. The environment continues to be degraded, poisoned with toxic waste, depleted by mass extinction. Dwindling natural resources, including potable water grow scarce.
In the long run, if you're a good parent and teach them empathy and provide them a good education and god forbid, give them a philosophical outlook, all you end up doing is make them painfully aware yet powerless to do anything to change the fact that this planet has become a toilet bowel.
 
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Wow I agree with everything socko mentioned and even put myself in the "complete self-aware, societal conscience newborn" scenario recently on a few occasions, which further perpetuated my opposition to having children and even made me question if I had a choice of being born or not, which would I choose?. Knowing what I know now, I think it would be a terrible thing to bring another being to suffer in this world, especially given that I have dark skin which will be inherited by my offspring. I will have to explain to him/her that he/she will be discriminated against, dehumanized, and viewed as a lesser animal because of this (if the child lives in a country like USA, Holland, etc). Disheartening to explain a child this, I imagine, whilst trying to somehow rationalize the hatred, which will make it all the more confusing. Like Socko mentioned, I don't want a child to experience anything I have, yet alone be exposed to the horrors of the world.... I almost feel like birthing/ forcing a child to live in this would make me an inconsiderate jerk.
 
I once asked my father why he had children, and he said, "Having a kid is like getting a dog. You can do whatever you want to it."

My gf has been nagging me about wanting children. She will say things like I have 3 university degrees, an IQ well over 140, and am physically "athletic;" therefore I should pass on my genes. That and both of us are educated and could possibly raise children right if we put the work into it. But I'll leave her if she pushes it.

Children are great but not for me either. I don't know if that's because my childhood was a living hell, and I don't want to even subconsciously perpetrate on any child anything remotely resembling waht my parents did to me. Maybe I'm just immune to Baby Fever. Also I have a genetic condition that I'm not willing to risk inflicting on a child.

Sometimes I try to look at having children from the perspective of a newborn baby who has complete self-awareness and is in full knowledge of the current events and world history. In addition to the risk of being born into a bad family or screwed up by the hateful, stupid, impulsive, and destructive disposition of humanity in general, I think that being born in the current decades are too difficult to "make it" and live a happy, fulfilled, prosperous, self-actualized life. Just look at the unemployment rate for recent college grads, in all fields, including "STEM," thanks to the flood of H1Bs, outsourcing, off-shoring, mass layoffs, "inversion", etc. If I had a choice of being born now, I wouldn't want to. The post world war II economic boom is long gone, socio-economic inequity grows, and upward mobility is becoming increasingly difficult. The USA is in bad shape, and the economy hasn't undergone a "real" recovery and shows no signs of improving. Europe is in bad shape as well. South America, China, Russia aren't Lands of Opportunity either. Too many people, through no fault of their own, just aren't able to achieve prosperity nowadays. Unless you win the lottery of birth into the 1%, it's not worth it.
Yeah, but what kind of future can you offer them? Unless you are rich enough to give them a level playing field, you can't guarantee (or even offer reasonable assurance that they will be rewarded with a good job if they study in school or work hard in the current era) anything unless you let them live at home all their lives and leave them a huge inheritance. Even if you're a fantastic parent and pay for their schooling, the odds of rising to middle class or remaining there are more difficult now. Poverty and suffering will become the rule rather than the exception even in developed countries. Quality of life is rapidly deteriorating. The economy is ruined, the income gap grows, the middle class shrinks. Unemployment for recent college graduates is more than 20% across the developed world, and taking into account "under employment," it's even worse. People with college degrees bag my groceries. PhDs are on food stamps. Retiring Baby Boomers drain an increasingly large share of the GDP as they collect an ever bigger share of entitlements: social security, retirement benefits, pensions that the rest of us working stiffs pay for through our taxes. They drive up medicare and medicaid costs. Commonly during a single hospital visit, they ring up $10,000 + in medical bills for frivolous and unneeded procedures (with the collusion of corrupt physicians) by getting an MRI every time they stub their big toe. For the rest of us, it's cheaper to let nature take its course and even die rather than pay for medical care. Race riots, oil wars, the spread of religious fundamentalism, the destruction of entire cultures and their history are all happening RIGHT NOW. The environment continues to be degraded, poisoned with toxic waste, depleted by mass extinction. Dwindling natural resources, including potable water grow scarce.
In the long run, if you're a good parent and teach them empathy and provide them a good education and god forbid, give them a philosophical outlook, all you end up doing is make them painfully aware yet powerless to do anything to change the fact that this planet has become a toilet bowel.

Are you diagnosed with depression? You have a pretty fucked up view on life imo.

I feel bad for you because it sounds like you will never achieve happiness, and that's a shame. Shouldn't you be happy with the fact that you are even alive?
 
^ shouldn't you be happy for even being alive?
Fuck, that's deep man.
No, I'd say socko's post is one of outstanding intellect and insight. Some would say a rarity in some parts of this forum in recent times.
I feel bad for you for not getting it. But it's a very empty and fake form of pity.
Pity-lite, we'll call it, so's you can understand :D
 
Race riots, oil wars, the spread of religious fundamentalism, the destruction of entire cultures and their history are all happening RIGHT NOW. The environment continues to be degraded, poisoned with toxic waste, depleted by mass extinction. Dwindling natural resources, including potable water grow scarce.
In the long run, if you're a good parent and teach them empathy and provide them a good education and god forbid, give them a philosophical outlook, all you end up doing is make them painfully aware yet powerless to do anything to change the fact that this planet has become a toilet bowel.

Great post. Unfortunately most people try to avoid thinking about these issues and keep on procreating.
 
Woah is me, I have an arts degree and I have to work in a supermarket. :(

The universe is a harsh mistress. Sure it's tough being alive but all of socko's moan fest simply highlights someone trapped in a consumerist system. $10000 for an MRI being a problem? Jesus, kids die from cancer before they are 5, and have done for 60 000 years. Are you saying that no one has been happy in the history of humanity?

I know plenty of families who life off grid, grow their own food in self sustained communes with no real world contact with the economic woes that you are crying about. Do their kids live peaceful happy lives? Of course they do. Do they have to work hard to survive? Subsistence farming is physical work, but the universe owes you nothing and it won't give you food on a plate for nothing. Life isn't easy but that doesn't mean a child can't be happy. Surround them in love and make them feel safe and childhood is easy.

I bet socko thinks not having the latest play station console is reason enough for a kid to be miserable. I feel for the kids in war zones constantly sheltering from falling bombs. These are the parents who should be wearing a condom and having their tubes tied. Some entitled white dude in America with access to fresh water, cheap basic medical care and access to higher education complaining about how terrible the world is is laughable. You are a Eeyore. A moaning cry baby who would probably complain that he has a hole in his bum.
 
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