Why do I suck at Math?

[yougene]

Could someone explain to me why Math is so important in Pharmacy? I understand there's a lot of chemistry involved and stuff, but wouldn't the Pharmacist just need to know the Types of drugs, their interactions, adverse effects and physiological aspects? I don't know why I would need a good Math background for that. I took a Pharmacology class and there was barely any Math at all incorporated in it..

Math is the construct through which you can understand ideas like substance half-life, ld-50, equilibrium systems, etc...

You might never use this math in your work directly, but you will use ideas that are partially expressed through math.

 

[HoneyRoastedPeanut]

Math is one of those subjects that really requires you to be interested in learning it. Why? Because it's all one big system of logic, like a big game with a set of rules that govern the way the game is played. Sure, there are a lot of intricacies, but if you establish a few big concepts it all starts to click. I hate the way math is taught in the (American) school system, because they try to spoon feed it to you bit by bit without putting it all together. It's the same problem I have with chemistry, but that's another rant.

I am no teacher, but I was a math tutor throughout high school and a little in college and what I found out is that people who "don't get math" never learned how to play the game, either because they never cared or weren't given the opportunity. Trust me, anyone can learn math if they really want to, not because someone says they have to. When you aren't interested, instead of trying to solve the problem you are thinking about all the reasons why you don't get math. If you had dyscalculia I suppose it would be very difficult, but I assure you the big concepts in math have little to do with number recall and mostly to do with logical relationships.

I say get a private tutor who isn't going to treat you like an idiot. You got a B in basics, so the potential for understanding is there, you just need to cultivate it with discussion and a lot of repetition. Always remember, the solution to a problem isn't a number, it's a procedure.

 

[adrian89987]

^yes I definitely agree with that
Throughout high school I had to help a lot of my friends with math, and it seemed like I just had to word things the right way and they would understand way better. Like HoneyRoasted said...they never learned to play the game, I always had to present the concepts like a puzzle and lead them through the grand idea of what was being done. Once the logic is understood, the math starts to just fall together fairly easily.

 

[Binge Artist]

Math is one of those subjects that really requires you to be interested in learning it. Why? Because it's all one big system of logic, like a big game with a set of rules that govern the way the game is played. Sure, there are a lot of intricacies, but if you establish a few big concepts it all starts to click. I hate the way math is taught in the (American) school system, because they try to spoon feed it to you bit by bit without putting it all together. It's the same problem I have with chemistry, but that's another rant.

I am no teacher, but I was a math tutor throughout high school and a little in college and what I found out is that people who "don't get math" never learned how to play the game, either because they never cared or weren't given the opportunity. Trust me, anyone can learn math if they really want to, not because someone says they have to. When you aren't interested, instead of trying to solve the problem you are thinking about all the reasons why you don't get math. If you had dyscalculia I suppose it would be very difficult, but I assure you the big concepts in math have little to do with number recall and mostly to do with logical relationships.

I say get a private tutor who isn't going to treat you like an idiot. You got a B in basics, so the potential for understanding is there, you just need to cultivate it with discussion and a lot of repetition. Always remember, the solution to a problem isn't a number, it's a procedure.

Very nice.

rare breed of articulate mathematicians

Tsk tsk tsk

 

[Heuristic]

1. It seems that scientists (most that I read/talked to at least, and that's a lot) have terrible language skills (I found this to be true for both English and Arabic-speaking scientists), and therefore have a hard time articulating what they're trying to teach you. And it seems that the more mathematical the science is, the less articulate they become. It looks something like this: Biologists > Chemists > Computer Scientists > Physics > Mathematicians, in order of most to least able to tell you what they're trying to tell you. In short, they make bad writers, and worse teachers.

Definitely possible. But, as an alternative hypothesis:

The difficulty of each practitioner in explaining his field really isn't in direct relationship to the role of mathematics in each field, but rather is in relationship to the level of inquiry and the degree to which the answer can be put in common frameworks and metaphors.

Right, so classical kinematics in physics is pretty easy to understand and articulate, because the subject involves things we see every day, and what is said can be easily verified by every day experience. But classical kinematics is also thoroughly described mathematically.

But other areas, which really can't be visualized comprehensively, can't be observed in everyday experience, and don't conform to our ways of understanding everyday experience, are extremely difficult to explain and articulate to someone who doesn't understand first the observations and problems that theories in these difficult areas are meant to address.

Since much of the biology we interact with takes place at a level amenable to common frameworks of understanding, it's easier to explain, though rife with technical terms.

Similarly with chemistry, which was much easier before the mini solar-system of the atom turned into a bizarre set of smudged and complex probabilities, or with mathematics.

To grasp the levels that go beyond ordinary frameworks of understanding, I think there must be sufficient immersion in the basic levels to understand the problems that lead to the next level of understanding. Once that happens--once one understands why one's basic level can't solve a problem--one will understand the motivation to derive new mechanisms and ways of understanding to get at the new problem. And, then following along, one will end up with a good appreciation of both the problem and the new tools, derivations, concepts, etc. used to address the problem.

Dyscalculia. This is an actual learning disability that you can find in the DSM-IV as a sub-set of Dyslexia. When I tell people I have number-dyslexia, they laugh, thinking that I'm telling joke. As a matter of fact, I do - not only do I almost always read numbers wrong, but I also find them extremely hard to memorize. Associated with that is directional dyslexia, which I also have - I simply am unable to tell left from right without thinking hard about it.

Little known fact: Richard Feynman had similar difficulty telling his left hand from his right hand.

 

[An Iz]

Definitely possible. But, as an alternative hypothesis:

The difficulty of each practitioner in explaining his field really isn't in direct relationship to the role of mathematics in each field, but rather is in relationship to the level of inquiry and the degree to which the answer can be put in common frameworks and metaphors.

Right, so classical kinematics in physics is pretty easy to understand and articulate, because the subject involves things we see every day, and what is said can be easily verified by every day experience. But classical kinematics is also thoroughly described mathematically.

But other areas, which really can't be visualized comprehensively, can't be observed in everyday experience, and don't conform to our ways of understanding everyday experience, are extremely difficult to explain and articulate to someone who doesn't understand first the observations and problems that theories in these difficult areas are meant to address.

Since much of the biology we interact with takes place at a level amenable to common frameworks of understanding, it's easier to explain, though rife with technical terms.

Similarly with chemistry, which was much easier before the mini solar-system of the atom turned into a bizarre set of smudged and complex probabilities, or with mathematics.

To grasp the levels that go beyond ordinary frameworks of understanding, I think there must be sufficient immersion in the basic levels to understand the problems that lead to the next level of understanding. Once that happens--once one understands why one's basic level can't solve a problem--one will understand the motivation to derive new mechanisms and ways of understanding to get at the new problem. And, then following along, one will end up with a good appreciation of both the problem and the new tools, derivations, concepts, etc. used to address the problem.

I'm quoting this masterpost for page two.

Dr. Feynman (RIP) actually lands smack dab in the middle of this sort of communication difficulty during this interview with the BBC.

This interview contains the most thorough and honest exploration of this manner of confusion that I've ever seen, and I had a lot of frustration along these same lines when I was in college.

The full interview lasts for 7 minutes, but the climax comes at around 5 so it isn't that long!

 

[ranunky]

Any tips or pointers?

I'm not a particularly clever guy but I always get As in maths. The secret is practice. After every lecture, when you'e studying, don't bother reading the lecture notes or books or whatever, just spend 15-30 minutes, or however long it takes for you to become comfortable with the problem type, doing problems. It becomes very easy when you consistently practice problems.

 

[StrawPipes]

I'm not a particularly clever guy but I always get As in maths. The secret is practice. After every lecture, when you'e studying, don't bother reading the lecture notes or books or whatever, just spend 15-30 minutes, or however long it takes for you to become comfortable with the problem type, doing problems. It becomes very easy when you consistently practice problems.

I appreciate the advice and I don't mean to sound rude, but doesn't everyone try to study math that way? Hell I made sure I did my homework everyday and I could do it, but when it came to the test I completely forgot all principles I previously learned. Coincidently, these so called momentary lapse of reasons I have just seem so common and practical with my Math and Physics studies. I need to do good on the MCAT/PCAT and I really need to learn a new technique and approach.

People are saying get a private tutor. Will that tutor follow a certain textbook or am I the one who has to provide the neccesary practice problems and applications? Furthermore, besides Kaplan, what are some good Physics review textbooks the tutor can help me with and that apply to the majority of the Physics/MCAT corrlaberation review? I'm not too worried about the Biological sciences, and I believe I will do alright in the Verbal reasoning sections. I just fear my lack of Mathematical/Physics foundation is to meek for the test as of now. I need to first acquire a foundation (a beginning to help me think) then hopefully that builds on my Mathematical integrity.

I just hope I can do it. I have tried very hard with Math since 7th grade when we first started using formulas. I cheated my way through high school but devote myself substantially and proficiently in college. Ok I'm just ranting now; I better stop before this turns out to be three pages long.

 

[yougene]

I usually keep two notepads around when I do problems. One for doing the problem and another for any thoughts or questions that come up while doing the problem. If I have a realization that seems important I'll write it down along with page number. If I get to a problem I don't understand I'll write it down and I try to pinpoint exactly what I don't understand. Knowing what you don't know is half of the battle. I pick up a lot of reasoning errors during this step.

You can work through this list with a tutor, a teacher, internet, etc... This way you're systematically filling in the holes in your understanding while reinforcing what you know.

Engaging the problem through various contexts(working problems, writing problem down, working with other humans) helps the understanding stick.

 

[Pillthrill]

I just wanted to say I feel ya. I was a straight A student usually and math was straight Cs.
I got to Advanced Algebra, a year behind my classmates my senior year and just barely got a D.
The problem? I have a math learning disability.
I think of it as a bucket. Each bucket stores the information you take in. My math one has a giant hole in it. I can't even multiply! It can be so hard cause people don't understand.
But hang in there. I'm actually doing accounting right now for an auto shop. With some of the programs out there, you can make it. Get a tutor if you need one.

 

[kong]

I've found math books to vary considerably in ease of understanding. When I get home, I'll try and find my old book and post the title. I couldn't understand the calc book the uni assigned, but got through just find using a different textbook. A study guide is crucial if you are having difficulty. Working through multiply examples works wonders.

Saxon is a good brand, but I used a different brand that was amazingly well done which I'll post if I can find it.

The nice thing about math is 98% of the time it is just following a series of concrete instructions. There is little judgement required for calc and below.

Use this to your benefit. Learn a concept by reading the book and repetition in the study guide. Emphasize the concept (instructions) and you won't be thrown off by the numbers, they all crunch through the same more or less.

Think like a robot lol...especially at the lower levels. I've found the people who have difficulty in things like algebra get overwhelmed because they expect to understand the purpose of the concept. This is irrelevant. Just focus on what happens...numbers go in...answer comes out...

I always found math fairly easy. I didn't have much understanding of what any of it was good for until about midway through calc however.

 

[Cyc]

The problem I have is that I get to the end of the chapter, struggle through the questions with help of the answer key, get done after spending a ridiculously long time, and when I finally finish, I have absolutely no desire to look at another problem. My attitude is that I've done all the problems, therefore I know the material. Then I cram by reviewing my work before the exam.

Yet sure enough, exam comes and the problem is worded differently, with different values and conversions, with an extra step thrown in for fun, and I end up getting 0 on the multiple choice. That multiple choice turns out to be worth 0.5% of my final mark. Repeat this process several times and you get the idea.

Yet I go to tutorials and see kids who don't even bother doing the chapter questions, and they seem to be doing fine.

 

[soundsystem00]

I have the exact same problem only way worse. I started college in fall 2005 in a remedial (high school level) algebra class. I failed it. I retook the same class about 4-5 times and finally passed it on the last try. The reason I passed was because I had a girlfriend who was in the same class. We studied together almost every night and that is what lead to my success in the class.

I then entered the next level of remedial algebra, and the last one. The catch is, in order to graduate up to normal level college algebra and get out of the remedial all together, you have to pass the class with a B. I think this is bullshit and it is literally killing me. It is my third time taking the class, and I have tried everything...Tutors twice to three times a week, constant studying, everything. Whenever im being tutored, it seems easy and I can actually work the problems myself, but whenever the test comes up, I have no idea what to do. I guess my main problem is that I make it out to be more difficult than it really is.

Algebra is very simple. Keep that in mind and don't make it out to be harder than it is. That will help a lot. And yeah, what they said, keep a constant tutoring schedule and you should pass.

 

[StrawPipes]

I have the exact same problem only way worse. I started college in fall 2005 in a remedial (high school level) algebra class. I failed it. I retook the same class about 4-5 times and finally passed it on the last try. The reason I passed was because I had a girlfriend who was in the same class. We studied together almost every night and that is what lead to my success in the class.

I then entered the next level of remedial algebra, and the last one. The catch is, in order to graduate up to normal level college algebra and get out of the remedial all together, you have to pass the class with a B. I think this is bullshit and it is literally killing me. It is my third time taking the class, and I have tried everything...Tutors twice to three times a week, constant studying, everything. Whenever im being tutored, it seems easy and I can actually work the problems myself, but whenever the test comes up, I have no idea what to do. I guess my main problem is that I make it out to be more difficult than it really is.

Algebra is very simple. Keep that in mind and don't make it out to be harder than it is. That will help a lot. And yeah, what they said, keep a constant tutoring schedule and you should pass.

Lol, you say Algebra is very simple, yet in your above passage it sounds like it's not that simple to you. No pun intended

I mean I'm not an idiot in Math, I receieved a B in College Algebra, but I had a B- going into the final, so I must have had one hell of a final exam score. It's just the thing is, I can't seem to grasp the concepts.

Yet sure enough, exam comes and the problem is worded differently, with different values and conversions, with an extra step thrown in for fun

That's what fucked up my Physics grade..

 

[serenafails]

My school splits algebra 1 into two parts, 1a and 1b
I took 1b like 4 times, and the last time I got an A.
I'm sure it all depends whose teaching you
some teachers have different methods.

 

[kong]

The problem I have is that I get to the end of the chapter, struggle through the questions with help of the answer key, get done after spending a ridiculously long time, and when I finally finish, I have absolutely no desire to look at another problem. My attitude is that I've done all the problems, therefore I know the material. Then I cram by reviewing my work before the exam.

Yet sure enough, exam comes and the problem is worded differently, with different values and conversions, with an extra step thrown in for fun, and I end up getting 0 on the multiple choice. That multiple choice turns out to be worth 0.5% of my final mark. Repeat this process several times and you get the idea.

Yet I go to tutorials and see kids who don't even bother doing the chapter questions, and they seem to be doing fine.

Some people really have an aptitude for math, they don't need to study much to get it.

If you're in the other category repetition will work wonders. If you have a study guide a good strategy would be to read the textbook until you have a good understanding of the concept->go through the problems in the study guide so you can see all the actual work->do the problems at the end of the chapter yourself while checking the key...

 

[StrawPipes]

Some people really have an aptitude for math, they don't need to study much to get it.

If you're in the other category repetition will work wonders. If you have a study guide a good strategy would be to read the textbook until you have a good understanding of the concept->go through the problems in the study guide so you can see all the actual work->do the problems at the end of the chapter yourself while checking the key...

I tried it. I literally can't teach myself Math. I read the textbook chapters and all the examples presented in them, and still I have trouble.

I have to say I really think some people get it and some people don't.

Don't have to read this if you don't want to:

I just really want to get into Medical School. Like, I'm trying so hard. So far I already shadowed a Nephrologist, an Internist, and Friday I'll be in the ER shadowing an ER physician as well. I have appointments set up in the near and slightly distant future with a family practice physician, rehabilitation physician, and an Oncologist to shadow. The Oncologist and Family physician I've known for years because I played sports with there sons. So I will receive of letter of rec from the oncologist, and the family doctor; also, I hope to receive one from a professor of one of my Chemistry classes. I am also planning on taking a CNA class in June if I can't get hired as a Physical Therapist aide. I will also be doing volunteer work at hospitals and plan participating in support groups like MS, Stroke, cancer, etc.

So with all this volunteer work, support groups, and shadowing experience combined with employment as a PT aide or CNA will all potentiate my chances of getting into medical school. Medical Schools love people that shadow cause this proves to them that they are interested in the field. Moreover, if I have patient care either as a CNA or PT aide this will potentiate my chances as well. And lastly, I want to raise my GPA atleast a 3.6 in science courses overall and score well on the MCAT.

A friend of mine got into Med school with 25 on her MCAT (which isn't that good at all) However, she had a 3.9 GPA. Apparently though -- What she said they told her -- was that one of the main reasons she got in considering her MCAT score was that she had patient experience.

Feel free to read this

Ok, now it's time to collaborate the above message with my Math problem.

Even though I'm going to have all this shadowing experience, patient care, volunteer work, and support group documentation, I know I'm still going to need to raise my GPA or have one hell of an MCAT score. Well, my classes these next two years are going to be pretty damn hard; so raising my GPA to a 3.6 is possible, but I don't think I'll be able to get much higher.

This is why I need to master Math and Physics. For whatever reason, If I can't raise my GPA high enough I'm going to need to have a VERY VERY good MCAT score. And since Physics is one of the sections and perhaps the most dominate (A few friends who took the MCAT told me this) I need to have a solid Math background to help study for the Physics section.

I'll be honest, my goal is for a 3.6 gpa but I fear it may be harder than anticipated and it may only be a 3.4. So I really really really need to do good on the Physics/Math part.


Ok sorry for such a long reply, but I'm high on Methadone and felt like expressing my progress so far. Or as I call it: My journey to Medical School. %)

 

[wizekrak]

Hey I suck at math to, especially physics.

Mu problem is that I'm a big picture kind of person and need to know how and why stuff works for it to make sense. I excel in large scale critical thinking and abstraction because I can look at things from a bunch of angles and do it the way that makes the most sense to me. This works great for physiology and any type of applied biology, but it really sucks for math where you can only do things in one way or its wrong.

With math/physics you really need a good teacher who can understand how you learn and tailor the teaching to your style. MCAT physics is very different from cass room physics. Its way morea bout understand relationships and concepts and way less about raw calculations. About half of the physics questions or more are just an application of a theory, moving variables around in formulas, or teasing out the proper information from the passage, the math is very very light. So you really need to understand the concepts so you can apply them. You will see things in those passages you won't have seen before and be expected to apply the known concepts and to think critically about them. For MCAT physics do as many practice tests as you can get your hands on but do them under test conditions. The AAMC practice tests are easier than the real thing but once you know how to think the way the test wants you to you are half way there. Wow, I'm impressed your friend could get an interview with a 25MCAT let alone be accepted. Since in the US they don't really care about written you should look at 33 (or composite of 11) being your magic number to aim for.

This saved my ass, it explains things in a really easy to understand way

 

[ranunky]

Hey I suck at math to, especially physics.

Mu problem is that I'm a big picture kind of person and need to know how and why stuff works for it to make sense. I excel in large scale critical thinking and abstraction because I can look at things from a bunch of angles and do it the way that makes the most sense to me. This works great for physiology and any type of applied biology, but it really sucks for math where you can only do things in one way or its wrong.

No, you can do a maths problem any way you like.

 

[StrawPipes]

No, you can do a maths problem any way you like.

I don't quite agree with this. I know you can initially begin progressing through the problem different, but more than likely you'll have to do a common concept to get the final answer.

And wizecrack, like I said the reason she got in with a 25 is cause she had CNA experience and a 3.93 gpa or somethin like that.

Also, from what I've been told by some doctors I talked to that went to the only Medical school in the state i live in; where I also hope to attend was basically if you're a resident from my state and apply at University of (my state) with any type of Medical experience and a decent GPA and MCAT score, you atleast will get an interview. Not necessarily get accepted, but more than likely an interview Sorry, I don't like giving away my location...

And as you can see by my above posting; I'm taking a lot of steps that will look good on an application. Now it all comes down to gpa and MCAT. Then finishing Med school when and if I get accepted.