Why are even top notch psychedelic experiences often so difficult and unpleasant?

[Dresden]

I think this is a good question. I've always associated phens with stimulation and euphoria and indoles with dream like imagery, freak outs, and nightmarish overtones. It's no wonder really based on subjective effects alone that the former class of drugs are addictive while the latter class is avoided by many. Not including experienced psychonauts such as myself and maybe you too who have found great profundity and increased spirituality and insights to be had by these venerated psychedelics with their sometimes difficult, frightening, or impossible to control trips. Why after years of using all sorts of great drugs do I still associate phens with sophisticated, highly rewarding hedonism and psychs with nervous breakdowns, beat downs, uncontrollable crying, emotional lability during the trip, and heavier, often difficult to integrate experiences all around? And am I just an ingrate for even bringing up this topic on a class of drugs, the psychedelics, which many around here including myself consider sacred and veritably holy ground upon which to tread with only the utmost of respect?

 

[Kl519]

I think most of the differences can be attributed to set and setting, physiological sensitivity and the mind expansion/ego dissolution that undoubtedly occurs on psychs but not phens (at least the ones I think you're referring to). Probably has to do with our individual cup of teas too.

For my part, I still really like both and have had awesome times with them too. They both have their good and bad sides, but people can get more of one than the other, so they react accordingly. Which is, of course, just the way things are.

So yeah, good question. Ultimately, I don't know because these are just tidbits of speculation.

 

[Dresden]

I primarily like to do stimulatory or entactogenic phens (methamphetamine or MDMA but I can't find MDMA anymore) 90% of my drug usage cycle as a means of building up my ego and expanding my life's horizons if you will. Then, once the ego has been expanded sufficiently, I like to pop that bubble with a harsh indole such as high dose shrooms or especially LSD (which I can't get anymore either). I then pick up the pieces and repeat. MXE is another good ego popper but I can't get that anymore either.

 

[tokezu]

Why after years of using all sorts of great drugs do I still associate phens with sophisticated, highly rewarding hedonism and psychs with nervous breakdowns, beat downs, uncontrollable crying, emotional lability during the trip, and heavier, often difficult to integrate experiences all around?

Maybe because you're looking at a false dichotomy? There are phenethylamines that are psychedelics and some of them have just as much potential for difficult experiences as tryptamines.

But I suspect that wasn't really your question, at least not the one that you asked in the title. So... why are even top notch psychedelic experiences often so difficult?
I think it is the potential for a difficult or even negative experience that makes the good experiences as great as they are. You just feel (whether you know consciously in that moment or not) that the euphoria, the feeling of having a life-changing epiphany and all that is all based on something real that is happening within you. The potential of a difficult experience reminds us that these substances don't predictably put us in a certain mood, but will just amplify what is already there. In contrast some phenethylamines (I guess you were partly referring to MDMA?) have much more reliable effects, but the tradeoff is that they can feel somewhat forced or even fake. When I'm using MDMA for example I sometimes catch myself thinking "Wait... is there really a reason to be *this* euphoric? Or am I somehow decieving myself by using this substance?" I have no personal experience with opioids, but I would guess something similar apllies to them. But on a psychedelic I just know that I actually *am* euphoric, it's just amplified by the substance I took.

 

[Kaleida]

Pretty much everything about this is just subjective I think. Personally I find tryptamines to be more hedonistic and less difficult than phenethylamines. I also do not consider a psychedelic experience to be top notch if it is unpleasant, so my answer is: they aren't.

 

[Fresnel]

Shrooms I find to be crazy pleasurable, 2C-B to be intellectual and cold. So, yeah, probably our subjective experience.

I believe the effects of psychs make you very susceptible to suggestion and auto suggestion. So if you are told, or tell yourself, that drug A has effect X, then it could very well turn out like that.

 

[DeadElvis666]

I hear ya. I guess I always just kinda figured psychedelics are supposed to be profound and mind expanding, rather than comfortable and soothing. I compare it to a religious experience, whereas other drugs are more about pleasure and relaxation

 

[Xorkoth]

I used to have difficult experiences almost always when I hadn't tripped much... the alteration was so extreme and unexpected that I would have periods that kicked my ass, even though the trips all in all were amazing and positive. These days I rarely experience discomfort on even powerful trips, though of course it happens sometimes. I find that it's generally a reaction to some insecurity or something I see about myself that makes me uncomfortable. Generally I feel very good about who I am and how I live my these days, so my trips are light and fun and euphoric by and large, even during the come-up.