Misc Why am I not able to taper off kratom?

[burn out]

So I went from heroin to suboxone to kratom. I thought it would be a piece of cake to taper off the kratom but its actually proving quite difficult. The odd thing is, if I take a Tablespoon of kratom, I get complete relief from withdrawal and a bit of a buzz. However, it seems like if I take any less than that I don't experience much withdrawal relief. Is this because kratom only has opioid activity above a certain dose? How do I taper it if that is the case?

THe withdrawal is nothing major, but I have a hard time with the restlessness. It is so bad sometimes that I have to change positions every 30 seconds and cannot sleep at all. Even though it lacks the strong symptoms of opiate withdrawal, at least when I am coming off opiates I can eventually find a position that I can lie still in for 10 minutes. The kratom withdrawal is ridiculous in that department. Please help, I am tired of being dependent on drugs and having to worry about having kratom all the time.

 

[RobotRipping]

you're having a hard time because you haven't really faced the full withdrawal from heroin or suboxone. Kratom has opioid agonists and antagonists, so at a lower dose the antagonist effects may outweigh the agonist effects, not sure on that though. Kratom is more of a stimulant than an opioid, even at higher doses.

the good thing is that kratom withdrawal does not last very long at all and as you mention, it's no where near as bad as an opiate withdrawal. I'd just quit cold turkey and use loperamide to deal with the restlessness then taper off that quickly to avoid any further issues. At some point you're going to have to face a few terrible days of restlessness, in my case, kratom extended opiate PAWS and i still have restlessness from time to time and it's been months since i've touched kratom. I didn't taper off loperamide quick enough so that ended up being my issue. I'd either just cold turkey it or switch to lope if tapering isn't working out well. Either way, it's going to be a bit uncomfortable for a few days when you decide to stop. There's no pain free way out of opiate dependency but opiates->kratom->loperamide made it as pain free as possible for myself.

if you can get your hands on some gabapentin or lyrica, that'll help the restlessness at least. You should only need a week or so of relief before it naturally gets better. People who have never touched strong opiates and who use kratom do not face nearly the same degree of issues that a former opiate user faces. Avoid antihistmaines like benadryl as they will cause restlessness themselves.

 

[Gordon]

You know that was something I was worried about, when people claim when they stop kratom or reduce it they still feel the onset of suboxone withdrawals. It is not just kratom withdrawals your feeling but suboxone withdrawals. I met someone who took kratom to get off suboxone and felt she her kratom use was just pushing the suboxone withdrawals back in, so whenever she reduced or quit the kratom she would feel bad. Bear in mind she tried to reduce the kratom after 3 months, this was without no suboxone or anything else, basically she had not taken suboxone for 3 months, yet she was convinced that it was withdrawals from suboxone. Is it any wonder people either get hooked on kratom or feel it made no difference to suboxone withdrawals.

 

[alovesupreme]

i discovered this too; kratom is not really a good taper or maintenance drug because of the wide range of active alkaloids in the plant, all active at various different dosages, and the half-life of 7-OHM or whatever is responsible for the mu-opiate agonism is so short, it doesn't do a very good job of holding you for any real length of time, so it's hard to get through the day or get a good night's sleep because you need to re-dose the stuff every four to six hours. also, i found extended use of kratom in absence of other mood-elevating substances concurrently (like dope) tends to induce some real bone-crushing depression of a sort i've never really experienced before... i figure perhaps some of those random alkaloids in there may mess with your serotonin or dopamine levels or something. honestly if i were you i'd use a little bit of a sub strip for a rapid taper from the kratom, after having jumped to the kratom as an intermediate from a stronger opiate (that's where i'm at right now) or try to get some clonidine and benzos and just C/T the kratom. you're just extending your misery the more you mess around with it. kratom is an interesting substance but i've soured on it a bit for practical reasons.

 

[burn out]

You know that was something I was worried about, when people claim when they stop kratom or reduce it they still feel the onset of suboxone withdrawals. It is not just kratom withdrawals your feeling but suboxone withdrawals. I met someone who took kratom to get off suboxone and felt she her kratom use was just pushing the suboxone withdrawals back in, so whenever she reduced or quit the kratom she would feel bad. Bear in mind she tried to reduce the kratom after 3 months, this was without no suboxone or anything else, basically she had not taken suboxone for 3 months, yet she was convinced that it was withdrawals from suboxone. Is it any wonder people either get hooked on kratom or feel it made no difference to suboxone withdrawals.

The withdrawals are not from suboxone. Of course, like robottripping said having had an opiate habit prior to going on the kratom certainly will making coming off more difficult, kratom does not just push back suboxone withdrawal, at least not in my experience. I know this because the two withdrawals are different. Withdrawal from suboxone resembles heroin withdrawal, with the hot cold flashes, stomach cramps, sleepiness in the early stages, etc being the most prominent symptoms. Kratom withdrawal on the other hand, consists of a feeling of deep inner restlessness which for me is worse than the restlessness I get from opiate withdrawal, but the other symptoms are far milder. When I try to stop taking kratom, I do not feel how I felt when I tried to get off suboxone. It is a different feeling withdrawal and I would much rather go through kratom withdrawal if I had to pick yet I still struggle with it.

 

[burn out]

Yeah that is the problem, if I dont take a high dose of kratom I dont seem to get much relief or it only lasts an hour and then I feel like I need to redose, which if I redosed hourly I would probably end up taking more than just taking a higher dose every 4 hours.

But I am really having trouble stopping. I know I shouldn't complain because it is a world difference compared to coming off heroin but when I am lying awake, changing positions every 30 seconds, I just cannot help but go take some more kratom.