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Covid-19 Who's planning on getting a COVID-19 vaccine? (Poll)

Gormur said:
This still doesn't make sense. Based on what I know of this potential virus, it matters more about how many people one has been around; like let's not think about if certain population groups are more prone to getting such a virus or not instead which seems like how this used to be looked at. I'm not saying it isn't but you just don't hear about this much. Also, what about the possibility of taking a vaccine that further spreads a virus, instead of killing it in its tracks?

As far as morality, I'd think it's more moral to figure out where the virus came from and how to prevent it rather than trying to figure out how to dodge it with drugs. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against people being clean and trying to prevent diseases from spreading in the air, but this virus immunity idea doesn't make sense to me
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I think I have to respectfully step away from further discussion on this topic if I understand you correctly.

1. Are you saying that you do not believe that the vaccines cause immunity?

2. Are you saying that vaccines actually increases the incidence of virus transmission?

Point 1 has been scientifically proven to incorrect over a couple of hundred years of vaccine development and application.

Point 2 has absolutely no evidence to support it in the case of Covid vaccines, although (much much) earlier types of vaccines did rely on the principle of building resistance to a mild deliberate infection of a similar disease.

If your answer is a definite yes to either of the above points I don't think there is much more to discuss here, though I appreciate the conversation thus far.
 
Point 3 says I've had allergic reactions to vaccines so this doesn't matter to me. Sorry, I have no idea what vaccines [are supposed to] do. I've never had a vaccine for a virus. I was just trying to figure out the reasoning behind this particular vaccine, so no hard feelings, I hope =)
 
Gormur said:
@AutoTripper No misunderstanding here. =) I understand what you're saying, but you wouldn't want to be me as a kid when I was wheezing to catch oxygen at night to breath. Ironically around the same time, my grandpa was living with me and he had lupus but he told me he had bronchitis at one point too and so did his twin sister, who's still alive (but he died from lupus in his 50s when I was eight). His sister has lupus as well but it's some kind of dormant variety, anyway this is off-topic again so I'll be quiet
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I believe you mate. I’m sure it was hella, I’ve been there myself like you might not believe, much more recently.

But we grow out of things, what happens in childhood can often be a rarity, occurring early in life, not again or much at all. We’re just talking about infections and principles, behaviours, traits, laws etc, anyway so you’re only trying to fathom a better personal picture of it.

Fresh Bluedream load to vaporize now. Very fruity.
 
Well maybe certain people are more prone to get a virus, like COVID so we could look at DNA and thyroid levels. I have a feeling that's not what's going on though and it makes me die a bit inside
 
By the way, my understanding is that an unvaccinated person who has survived Covid can still infect other people because re-infection by Covid is possible and there have been quite a few confirmed cases of this happening.

A person’s second infection may feel like nothing to them but it remains just as dangerous for others. Second infections also become more common as variants of Covid mutate and emerge.

That is why international travel is most likely going to require vaccination and not just recovery from infection.
 
Atelier3 said:
By the way, my understanding is that an unvaccinated person who has survived Covid can still infect other people because re-infection by Covid is possible and there have been quite a few confirmed cases of this happening.

A person’s second infection may feel like nothing to them but it remains just as dangerous for others. Second infections also become more common as variants of Covid mutate and emerge.

That is why international travel is most likely going to require vaccination and not just recovery from infection.
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Complete magical thinking, How does natural immunity work? how does a vaccine work? The biological process is exactly the same antigen plus adaptive immune system = adaptive response followed by longer lasting anamnestic response.

So if there is no difference biologically then just like naturally infected and recovered people, vaccinated individuals can and do get infected post vaccination. This applies to all viruses and vaccines not just coronavirus. I is a feature not a bug. Or is your position vaccines biologically work differently and vaccinated people cannot become infected or infect other people?

Cynically maybe people want to make a false distinction because it fits a programmed utilitarian collectivist world view, getting proactively vaccinated despite the unlikelihood that your action individually makes any difference enables moral assertion of superiority. Have a fucking lollypop and a badge.

Maybe it is a savvy marketing ploy by people after a slice of the 50 billion dollar coronavirus vaccine market. This plays nicely into the omnipresent blame and victim culture. Must blame someone. You need a positive action to virtue signal, to be tagged as a good person and be seen to be good. You can buy this absolution from Pharma and the Medical-Industrial-Complex just like old indulgences from the Catholic Church where sinners bought their way to heaven. You become self-affirmed virtuous therefore anyone who doesn't do exactly the same is not virtuous and unclean, haram. All their kind, all their ideas should be attacked stamped-out, silenced censored de-platformed un-personed. You are being played.

There is always some boogeyman or should that be boogey-person, non gendered, non binary, to blame and hate on in order to foster false division and distract proles from reality. This is the oldest play in the book and it clearly still works. The useful innocent / useful idiot is once again at the vanguard.

Eloi, don't think for yourself, don't question, let the government scientists and experts do that hard thinking for you, don't let thinking bother your pretty little heads, you lucky Eloi. Infantilized populous, the government loves and cares about you, big pharma and the medico industrial complex love you as only loving parents can.

With Eloi there are always Morlocks, and it is the Morlocks people should be concerned about.
 
Gormur said:
It looks like if I want to leave the country, I have to get vaccinated (what an awful word). Maybe this requirement will go away like all the people who had or have had this supposed virus did. I have yet to come across anybody who knowingly has had it
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My aunt and uncle died from complications while sick with Covid. Both elderly and in poor health. Definitely real.
 
novaveritas said:
Complete magical thinking, How does natural immunity work? how does a vaccine work? The biological process is exactly the same antigen plus adaptive immune system = adaptive response followed by longer lasting anamnestic response.

So if there is no difference biologically then just like naturally infected and recovered people, vaccinated individuals can and do get infected post vaccination. This applies to all viruses and vaccines not just coronavirus. I is a feature not a bug. Or is your position vaccines biologically work differently and vaccinated people cannot become infected or infect other people?

Cynically maybe people want to make a false distinction because it fits a programmed utilitarian collectivist world view, getting proactively vaccinated despite the unlikelihood that your action individually makes any difference enables moral assertion of superiority. Have a fucking lollypop and a badge.

Maybe it is a savvy marketing ploy by people after a slice of the 50 billion dollar coronavirus vaccine market. This plays nicely into the omnipresent blame and victim culture. Must blame someone. You need a positive action to virtue signal, to be tagged as a good person and be seen to be good. You can buy this absolution from Pharma and the Medical-Industrial-Complex just like old indulgences from the Catholic Church where sinners bought their way to heaven. You become self-affirmed virtuous therefore anyone who doesn't do exactly the same is not virtuous and unclean, haram. All their kind, all their ideas should be attacked stamped-out, silenced censored de-platformed un-personed. You are being played.

There is always some boogeyman or should that be boogey-person, non gendered, non binary, to blame and hate on in order to foster false division and distract proles from reality. This is the oldest play in the book and it clearly still works. The useful innocent / useful idiot is once again at the vanguard.

Eloi, don't think for yourself, don't question, let the government scientists and experts do that hard thinking for you, don't let thinking bother your pretty little heads, you lucky Eloi. Infantilized populous, the government loves and cares about you, big pharma and the medico industrial complex love you as only loving parents can.

With Eloi there are always Morlocks, and it is the Morlocks people should be concerned about.
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You seem to have responded to a reasonable discussion with a rant designed to be offensive and with a couple of technical terms intended to imply you have some scientific or medical knowledge. I think if you are making claims to superior medical or scientific knowledge it would be useful for you to present your credentials.

I don’t engage online with hysteria or rudeness and unfortunately your manner is both rude and hysterical. I don’t intend that to be a slight on you personally, just a factual description of your manner and choice of words.

However, because spreading health misinformation on a harm reduction website is morally bankrupt if done with intent, I feel I should direct other readers to the best available information on two things that your post demonstrates you don’t understand or are possibly misrepresenting for unknown reasons:

1. The tripartite process by which our bodies attack infection.

2. The way Covid vaccines work, especially the novel ways which mitigate against traditional anti-vax arguments regarding their dangers.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html

Fortunately, being the bastion of free speech that we are, others are able to post corrections for those with genuinely inquiring minds and the capacity for reasoned judgement to decide for themselves.
 
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Atelier3 said:
You seem to have responded to a reasonable discussion with a rant designed to be offensive and with a couple of technical terms intended to imply you have some scientific or medical knowledge. I think if you are making claims to superior medical or scientific knowledge it would be useful for you to present your credentials.

I don’t engage online with hysteria or rudeness and unfortunately your manner is both rude and hysterical. I don’t intend that to be a slight on you personally, just a factual description of your manner and choice of words.

However, because spreading health misinformation on a harm reduction website is morally bankrupt if done with intent, I feel I should direct other readers to the best available information on two things that your post demonstrates you don’t understand or are possibly misrepresenting for unknown reasons:

1. The tripartite process by which our bodies attack infection.

2. The way Covid vaccines work, especially the novel ways which mitigate against traditional anti-vax arguments regarding their dangers.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html

Fortunately, being the bastion of free speech that we are, others are able to post corrections for those with genuinely inquiring minds and the capacity for reasoned judgement to decide for themselves.
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I agree with you feeling that posts and comments especially in the flowing and non-heated context of this thread yesterday despite the heat of the topic, can be made to exact point without seeming rude, offensive or brash.

But on the subject, it’s been tinkering in my imagination. I’m picturing our nasal cavities. Say, I’ve had a bout myself, none since, so I may have for now some T cell immunity.

So I could carry Covid virus particles around in my nasal cavity, but remain asymptotic and my immune system keeps the virus from taking hold.

BUT...I can still pass it on (but only to somebody else who CHOOSES not to get vaccinated right? In which case, from a moral ethical point, seeing as the intention is to offer every single person on the planet a free vaccine schedule, this argument cannot exist? You wanna take that risk? Go ahead. You might kill your uncle! He didn’t want to get vaccinated. Oh well it’s his choice....

Or wait, your uncle DID get vaccinated. It was his choice. So you won’t kill him. You might die yourself though. Oh well it’s your choice.

Then, the vaccinated person. Those virus particles will surely still enter the nasal cavities. It’s not like the vaccine spontaneously combusts viral particles outside the body so they can never make contact.

So at which stage are they deactivated, unable to be transmitted from the asymptotic vaccinated person? Is is like they cannot reside alive in the sinus cavities, even dormant and spread around by usual manner?

Because the vaccine makes the immune system instantly quash all life out of all viral fragments and cells within hours upon entering the sinuses?

Vs days or weeks in the unvaccinated yet T cell immune asymptotic sinus cell carrier?

I’m just sharing my thinking. I’m not saying I know. But I struggle to dismiss the logic from my mind, as @novaveritas was saying I think, as I’ve been tussling with in my mind, surely a vaccinated person can still unknowingly, asymptotically carry it about and offload aerially or nose blow, tissue, hand, surface etc?

I cannot accept stigma asserted upon me to get vaccinated to protect anybody else, because of the argument I laid out above.

Your choice! You want to take the risk? Don’t get jabbed. You want to be safe? Get jabbed. We’ll be writing to you soon.

We don’t actually need to bring in the whole moral ethical stigma thing IMO in this light.

I’m sure there will be strong counter arguments. But this is exactly how I see it and feel about it. I resent and reject the notion of looking unfavourably upon somebody for choosing not to have it, when anyone who’s scared of Covid CAN have it.
 
Atelier3 said:
By the way, my understanding is that an unvaccinated person who has survived Covid can still infect other people because re-infection by Covid is possible and there have been quite a few confirmed cases of this happening.

A person’s second infection may feel like nothing to them but it remains just as dangerous for others. Second infections also become more common as variants of Covid mutate and emerge.

That is why international travel is most likely going to require vaccination and not just recovery from infection.
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Ive been hearing that we may need to be re vaccinated in 6 months anyways because of this so i’m not sure how strong that argument holds. If both kinds of immunity are short lived then a vaccinated person could still spread it.

I do worry that once we have created a catch 22 that as we all go back outside, illness spreads even more as the small isolated communities that have formed begin to meld together - and then we lockdown again
 
Zep1 said:
Are there any risks to taking the vaccine while being stuck on Dope? I noticed no1 has really commented on that. Im in a really fucked up spot. I have COPD & initially when I got diagnosed with it I had no symptoms really in late December except i had chest pains. I tried so hard to get clean (off topic I know) by going to detox 3 times in a row and even tried to go to treatment the 3rd time. I go to treatment and a week in they have a huge Covid outbreak cuz the treatment center i went to wasn't testing anyone for covid to my horror! Their excuse was that every1 got tested at Detox: translation they didn't want to spend the money and they told us every1 was going to get it anyway!! I got discharged due to my COPD after being there 1 fucking week, I come home my fiance was still fucking using. I knew I was fucked. Now my COPD is advancing rather rapidly & I live with a lot of pain in my upper back due to my lungs. My theory is that the dope is hurting me bcuz I don't use needles I hate them so I snort my dope which goes to your lungs n i live in constant fear bcuz if i get covid i know im fucked. I would really like to quit but both my fiance and already took time off work at the beginning of the yr for this very reason! I went to detox/failed treatment n bcuz he has less time off from work than i did he chose to do subs at home took it too soon and fucking went into precipitated withdrawal n that was the end of that plan since he only had a week off. I tried really hard to stay clean around him but it was impossible for me w only 2 wks clean bcuz we live together so I failed and now im fucked.

Are there any risks to taking the vaccine while being stuck on Dope? I noticed no1 has really commented on that. Im in a really fucked up spot. I have COPD & initially when I got diagnosed with it I had no symptoms really in late December except i had chest pains. I tried so hard to get clean (off topic I know) by going to detox 3 times in a row and even tried to go to treatment the 3rd time. I go to treatment and a week in they have a huge Covid outbreak cuz the treatment center i went to wasn't testing anyone for covid to my horror! Their excuse was that every1 got tested at Detox so it was ok & that eventually we would all get Covid anyways bcuz its out there! TRANSLATION they didn't want to spend the money on testing. I got discharged due to my COPD after being there 1 fucking week, I come home my fiance was still fucking using. I knew I was fucked. Now my COPD is advancing rather rapidly & I live with a lot of pain in my upper back due to my lungs. My theory is that the dope is hurting me bcuz I don't use needles I hate them so I snort my dope which goes to your lungs n i live in constant fear bcuz if i get covid i know im fucked. I would really like to quit but both my fiance and already took time off work at the beginning of the yr for this very reason! I went to detox+failed treatment & my fiance tried a different approach bcuz he had less time off from work than i did, he chose to do subs at home bcuz he only had 1 wk off work. Well he took the suboxone too soon and fucking went into precipitated withdrawal n that was the end of that plan since he only had a week off. I tried really hard to stay clean around him when i got discharged from treatment but it was impossible for me w only 2 wks clean bcuz we live together so I failed and now im fucked. So now im seeing a Pulmonologist that wants me to take the vaccine but I've only taken 1 Flu shot in the past and it made me SO SICK! It gave me the worst flu I've ever had & I ended up in the hospital. My fiance tells me that this vaccine is completely different and that it won't make me sick bcuz the flu shot is different since they're injecting you w a flu strand but i have my doubts. First bcuz im on this shit & I read that they don't recommend even taking tylenol a couple of days before the shot, and secondly bcuz of the reaction I had when I took the flu shot. But given the fact that I have COPD & my fiance works at a hospital I feel should take it. Any thoughts? I've been looking on the net for anything relating to the vaccine and people who do opiates and I've found nothing!
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I went to two rehabs during covid, inFlorida, when it was one of the main Hotspot, people were carrying on without masks everywhere, etc. Multiple staff expressed they believed it was a hoax, nearly everyone was a Trump fanatic, patients and staff alike. They had multiple cases of covid and would just quarantine the cases in their rooms and continue accepting new people. They relied on an antibody test that isn't super accurate. Really a shit show.
 
Zephyn said:
I went to two rehabs during covid, inFlorida, when it was one of the main Hotspot, people were carrying on without masks everywhere, etc. Multiple staff expressed they believed it was a hoax, nearly everyone was a Trump fanatic, patients and staff alike. They had multiple cases of covid and would just quarantine the cases in their rooms and continue accepting new people. They relied on an antibody test that isn't super accurate. Really a shit show.
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On that, at assurance of yet further ridicule of myself, if they were widespread vega testing people, by fully trained operists, they could really accurately diagnose it, locationally, level or virilunce or dormancy. Issues it may be causing, they would have a very accurate report of real infection rates.
 
It seems that people are looking for definitive and categorical negatives regarding re-infection and re-transmission after vaccination.

I’m not sure that is the most productive approach, though it is understandable. There is little in this life that is risk-free. Accordingly we live our lives prudently by assessing the size of different risks and taking steps to mitigate risks we believe excessively large. Some risks, though real, seem so unlikely that we effectively ignore them. Catching Ebola in Nebraska for example.

We all conduct this mental calculus constantly. The difference between people is the risk variables they put into the equation and the various weights they accord them: risk to themselves for example versus risk to others or risk of taking an action versus risk of non-action.

What surprises me is the degree to which what economists refer to as rational self-interest seems shape to shape the equation for so many people rather than a communitarian interest.

It’s interesting because I spend a lot of time arguing that economic models have less explanatory utility than ones that take into account social connections and sociability.

Maybe economics is not as fundamentally flawed as I’ve been arguing!
 
Atelier3 said:
It seems that people are looking for definitive and categorical negatives regarding re-infection and re-transmission after vaccination.

I’m not sure that is the most productive approach, though it is understandable. There is little in this life that is risk-free. Accordingly we live our lives prudently by assessing the size of different risks and taking steps to mitigate risks we believe excessively large. Some risks, though real, seem so unlikely that we effectively ignore them. Catching Ebola in Nebraska for example.

We all conduct this mental calculus constantly. The difference between people is the risk variables they put into the equation and the various weights they accord them: risk to themselves for example versus risk to others or risk of taking an action versus risk of non-action.

What surprises me is the degree to which what economists refer to as rational self-interest seems shape to shape the equation for so many people rather than a communitarian interest.

It’s interesting because I spend a lot of time arguing that economic models have less explanatory utility than ones that take into account social connections and sociability.

Maybe economics is not as fundamentally flawed as I’ve been arguing!
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I appreciate always you politely, without hostility or retaliation, speak your true thoughts and feelings on things.

I was just asking the question, really, in the purest sense. As it had been ping-ponging in my imagination overnight.

I ran with it as I typed. Like when you jot something out and your true thoughts and feelings become apparent.

Now, I was honestly not actively, biasedly, looking for negatives in vaccinated people. I just followed my thought trail, because from a purely factual science, truth point, I’m genuinely interested in how viruses in general, and now this one, reside in almost all of our nasal cavities, but most immune systems (maybe less so now age) keep infection from becoming symptomatic and “systeming”.

So I was asking the serious question, in my own mind, how this factor, carrying asymptotically, Covid viral cells, in T cell immune unvaccinated, vs vaccinated people.

Like, survival even if dormant in nasal passages to pass on? Duration etc.

I think it’s a very worthy question. And not bias, though I do have my strong views, I also am analytical on occasions, especially in a philosophical sense.

Hence, my argument I arrived at for freedom of choice and the ethics of it logistically.
 
The poll results on this thread are, unfortunately, eerily similar to polls conducted in the US.

Only 50% of Americans want to be vaccinated against a virus that has killed over half a million fellow citizens.
 
AutoTripper said:
I appreciate always you politely, without hostility or retaliation, speak your true thoughts and feelings on things.

I was just asking the question, really, in the purest sense. As it had been ping-ponging in my imagination overnight.

I ran with it as I typed. Like when you jot something out and your true thoughts and feelings become apparent.

Now, I was honestly not actively, biasedly, looking for negatives in vaccinated people. I just followed my thought trail, because from a purely factual science, truth point, I’m genuinely interested in how viruses in general, and now this one, reside in almost all of our nasal cavities, but most immune systems (maybe less so now age) keep infection from becoming symptomatic and “systeming”.

So I was asking the serious question, in my own mind, how this factor, carrying asymptotically, Covid viral cells, in T cell immune unvaccinated, vs vaccinated people.

Like, survival even if dormant in nasal passages to pass on? Duration etc.

I think it’s a very worthy question. And not bias, though I do have my strong views, I also am analytical on occasions, especially in a philosophical sense.

Hence, my argument I arrived at for freedom of choice and the ethics of it logistically.
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I totally agree that you have posed a reasonable and legitimate question. I’m afraid I can’t answer it though and I believe some of what you have asked is still being actively researched in the field given that Covid is so new.
 
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