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Who should be allowed to use drugs?

^ Also might change the numbers of people employed in processing those people. Police, Lawyers, Judges, Corrective Services Staff. Either that or they or they could spend more time focussing on violent crime like they probably should be.

I doubt that the government or general public would be in favour of taking resources away from Law Enforcement though.

Interesting point about the health system. I suppose it would depend on how many people prefer using recreational drugs responsibly rather than alcohol or whether alcohol use would remain constant. I'm guessing that many people who are using alcohol irresponsibly would take the same approach to drug use and possibly continue drinking as well. I know quite a few people whose idea of a good time is smoking a point of meth or two and then drinking until it wears off.

It would be great if there was the massive shift that you are talking about and everyone would switch away from alcohol but I'm not sure it would happen that way.

You are right about the increased revenue from drug sales so I suppose they could just divert that to pay incentives for the pharmicists/dispensaries.

I wonder if the pharmaceutical companies would want to ramp up the prices given that distribution would be controlled and limited per customer?
 
Any changes to our drug law will be very modest and most likely will be on coat tails of more influential countries.
Some of the ideas people are posting, I wouldnt expect for 50 years or more.

Drug laws can only change when people become more intelligent, and im not ready for that.
 
Some of the ideas people are posting, I wouldnt expect for 50 years or more.

That's probably because the original post of the thread posed the hypothetical that drug laws were changing tomorrow, not when or how they will happen.
 
Yeah mate im aware of that, if I strayed from original question Im truly sorry.
I think some of the ideas raised here are pretty impressive and better society than ours would consider them.
 
Before you all read this (TL:DR) I want to say that I think legalisation is more then a dream. Its a reality that will happen but only if we construct a campaign that is ambitious, massive in scale and that has a strong and charismatic leader. Look at all the major movements of the last 200 years. At present the drug reform movement is no where close to say the size or power of the Womens suffrage or even the Gay & Lesbian movement of the 1970/80s in Australia.

Above all though we would have to stop hiding from the anonymity of the internet. We would have to face our parents, partners, children, siblings, colleagues, peers and employers in admitting that we like and use drugs, hard drugs even. I dare say this would be the hardest thing of all. I am also concerned that our opponents would use the DoCS to have some of us cast as unfit parents (because of our drug use) and it wouldn't be difficult to see the forces of evil taking our children away due to our fight.

^ Also might change the numbers of people employed in processing those people. Police, Lawyers, Judges, Corrective Services Staff. Either that or they or they could spend more time focussing on violent crime like they probably should be. ?

I think the big problem with any of the numbers arguments is they're (especially mine) not worth the paper they're written on. We need a structured, funded organisation with professional members who can run a political campaign on drug legalisation. A successful grassroots campaigns along side several sugar daddys would assist in creating a large paying membership where the fees collected could be used to create several key items that are absolutely required for a successful campaign. These being:

1. professional financial modelling on outcomes that legalisation would cause. The financial modelling would be done by a reputable accounting firm, say PWC or KPMG. We all know the numbers case would sell itself. However having a reputable firm behind the numbers would show our independence. This would though force us to accept any negative result the numbers work may result in.

2. Employing several law firms, alongside the Law Reform Commission to draft the new Act of law, and the drafts of other legalisation like the 1910 NSW Crimes Act that would require significant amendment. See legalisation would require huge changes across state and federal laws. I dare say legalisation would require a referendum that would force the states to give up their rights with respects to criminalising drugs. This is also where we'd have to deal with the issue of people currently imprisoned under the unjust prohibition laws.

3. The grass root campaign would need to be backed by a massive media campaign. Hand written letters (nothing else will get a politicians attention), youtube and other internet media forums constantly utilised to spread the message. The other key require would be a constantly evolving and changing message. Keeping it fresh and moving would be difficult. This would most like be the most costly of all the requiments.

4. Significant research into the biology of drug use and addiction. See we need to build the case that drug use is not simply a dalliance, a option not the result of a biological imperative. See part of the reason why the suffrage campaign worked so well was the simple reason that you couldn't blame someone for being a woman. They were born that way and you couldn't discriminate on something that you clearly had no choice in. Drug use however is seen in a different light, a choice for the lazy. I for one believe that my drug use has a biological genetic reason to it. I've been using opiates since I was 13 years old (on a significant level) and I don't think that is normal. I think my brain has a need for opiates that simply cannot be fulfilled using natural means.

5. a detailed strength, weakness, opportunities and threat analysis. We would need to identify our opponents and, without defaming them, make it clear to the public that our opponents are greedy, evil, selfish individuals who would rather see your brother or sister die of an overdose or alcohol related illness than to see drugs legalised.

6. We need to gather organisation that have the same or similar aim (but who may already have political patronage) and steal them from the major parties. We need to threat the major parties and attack them aggressively at their wallets. This will be crucial when the legislation finally hits the negotiation phase. What is dropped / included will be based on how much leverage we have on them.

In fact I would say that if we achieved our aims one of our initial promises would be to deconstruct this political campign machines machine

7. Celebrity endorsement. I think this will be critical in developing a respectable campaign. And not just television stars. Lets get Stephen Hawking on the case.

Lastly and this is absolutely the key of all keys. We have to admit that we like drugs and want to get high. The latest round of decriminilsation proponents all carefully stated that they all hated drugs but that decriminislation was a lesser evil.

We need to move away from that message. It is contradictory, it confuses people and is essentially equivocal. We need an unequivocal message and the one going out at the moment just isn't effective (or else drugs would be decriminalised).

The problem is that no one will admit to just plain up wanting and liking drugs, and wanting to them to be legalised simply because we want to get high. Though of course it has major ramifications not least with our own family's. I know my in-laws would never trust me with my daughter again irrespective of the facts, and that is something that we're all going to face if we finally put our faces to a proper campaign.

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i'll be coming back to edit this later. gotta go bed.
 
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I'm not underage, nor do I think children using mind altering substances, especially alcohol is a good idea. That's not what I was saying.

I find certain people talking down to others just because of their age, especially on an internet forum, is not only unfair, but highly arrogant.

And adults should get over their superiority complex when it comes to age. I mean, yeah, you're older. That doesn't make you a fucking messiah.

i am not sure if this was directed at me suggesting it should be 25, but if you look at things from a purely harm reduction point of view it has been proven that the brain is not fully developed until 25

Look at the amount of deaths due to speeding of people under 25 as opposed to those over 25, it is much higher, the ability for risk assesment and rationale is not fully formed until that age

I don't like the idea of anyone being told what they can and can't do with their own body, but the question was "who should be allowed to use drugs" well i would say everyone but the phrasing of the question suggests that some people shouldn't be able to, so in the context of considering the question and in the spirit of harm reduction 25 makes sense

there was no arrogance in my post, there was no age based superiority, but i would love to know what i may have acheived had i not started becoming a habitual drug user at the age of 14
 
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A successful grassroots campaigns along side several sugar daddys would assist in creating a large paying membership where the fees collected could be used to create several key items that are absolutely required for a successful campaign.

Celebrity endorsement. I think this will be critical in developing a respectable campaign. And not just television stars. Lets get Stephen Hawking on the case.

Lastly and this is absolutely the key of all keys. We have to admit that we like drugs and want to get high. I know my in-laws would never trust me with my daughter again irrespective of the facts, and that is something that we're all going to face if we finally put our faces to a proper campaign.

I like all your points. Especially about the sugar daddy's and celebrity endorsements.

The last thing is probably the biggest stumbling block though. A decent percentage of people will admit this in private but in public there can be severe repurcussions for taking this stance. I reckon this will change though as more people who came of age in the last 30 years become more influential in public life. At the moment there is too much for people to lose. It seems that people saying that we need to keep an open mind about drug policy is becoming more acceptable but admitting being pro-drugs is setting yourself up for all sorts of ramifications- in your case to do with family, in my case employment, for other people in public life a tarnishing of their image. The media has a lot to answer for, in the organization I work for at the moment one of the biggest unofficial mantras is "whatever you do dont end up in the news" there's a constant fear of presenting a negative image to the general population.

I wonder if Rupert Murdoch likes to get high in the privacy of his own home...
 
should be the same as alcohol , if everyone had to have permits and such , then there would still be black market shit going on for the people without them . all drugs should be 18+ at stores specifically for drugs or even specific drugs for specific stores if thats their choice of sales . maybe things like heroin and meth should be 21+ but idk havent thought much into it
 
If heroin was available freely to all, what would we do different than the Chinese 100 yr ago?

NSFW:
manilaopium.jpg


opium-den-in-shanghai-1907.jpg


tumblr_llz336bpZN1qb8k7zo1_500.jpg
 
^That last pic is somewhat sexy for some weird reason.

Do you think individuals are able to learn from history or only governments? I think education is important but clearly there is a difference between knowing something is harmful to you and what you do with that information.

I am not sure "freely" is the best option in any case. I'm more interested in how would it be possible to have something inbetween what they had then and the way things are now?
 
any idea of permits or licences would be so hard to control, and lead to discrimination, corruption etc

you would create one problem whilst attempting to solve another

I enjoy these discussions from a philosophical point of view but when a safe injecting room can't be put in a place like richmond what hope do we have of legalisation of all drugs

I think in our life time the most progressive step we see might be decriminalisation, and to me thats one of the most important things, making a criminal out of someone who is only harming themselves (potentially) is absurd, your life can be so restricted once you have a criminal record that someone should not be punished for life for such a minor thing

I would really like to see heroin take the place of something like methadone. Most people i know who have gotten into heroin have done so purely because of its ease to buy, street dealers are making there money off addicts (and are often supporting there own addiction) if heroin addicts could get their heroin in the same way they obtain methadone then the street level dealing would ground to a hault, the dealers would not need to sell to support their habits and addicts will have safe environment to purchase their drugs, street level dealers are not making their money from somone trying it for the first time

It would also allow a lot of people with severe addictions to do things with their life instead of hustling cash for their drugs and obtaining drugs, instead of that being their full time job, they could actually get a full time job, heroin is not like a lot of drugs in the sense that you can be very functional under it's influence, it allow some of these people who have had habits for years the oppotunity for quality of life

Plus crime levels would drop, once crime levels drop a degree of stigma will be removed and the discrimination towards "junkies" would slowly diminish

Of course a black market would still exist but it would be a lot harder than just wandering down the street and scoring off some guy you have never met, thats the difference in my opinion with heroin to any other drug, if i had just moved to melbourne and wanted weed it may take me a month or so to develop a proper connection, but if i want smack i can get it as easy as buying a loaf of bread

I know i would rather be around a heroin addict who had constant access to heroin than an alcoholic who has constant access to alcohol
 
Well... in a mature society, anyone who wants to try drugs should be allowed to do so. Take alcohol for example. In America there are so many moral rules around it, but in Europe the under-aged are introduced to alcohol consumption in a moderate way from before the age of legality. They are taught the value of wine and beer with meals, for example.

The more rules you create around substances, the more they will be abused. It's the way reverse psychology works. On the other hand, if a substance is part of social norms and has early, moderate introduction along with useful education, then the society is better off. Portugal has experienced this since the legalization of small possession. Crime rates have dropped, and drug use itself has actually dropped.
 
From what I've read about the Swiss example after the Heroin became prescription rates of new users dropped somewhat- it became percieved as less glamorous or exciting and veiwed more as an illness. Rates of overall use remained fairly constant though. I think they experienced a drop in crime rates also.
 
If heroin was available freely to all, what would we do different than the Chinese 100 yr ago?

Well for one we have a extensive health and welfare system that provides widespread services already to people who are experiencing addiction. I dare say the status of a substance does not dictate whether an individual will became an addict or not and I would go as far to argue that the vast majority of people out there who want/have to be addicted to something are already addicts. The legalislation of say heroin may result in a spike in consumption but as all other decriminalislation/legalislation regimes have shown is that the long term trend is a significant reduction in people classified as addicts.

Besides 18th century China was a brutual place. No welfare, high infant morality, unemployment, disease, crime and many other not so nice stuff was the norm in those days. I dare say I would be smoking down opium like there was no tomorrow if I had to live in that reality.

^That last pic is somewhat sexy for some weird reason.

yeah for sure that last pic is like so hot. I'd bang the lot of them, even the fu-manchu bearded waiter.
 
How do you define "drugs"?
How do you define "responsible adults"?
This thread is an exercise in elitism and should have been left to rot like the OP's stupid handle.

Irresponsible adults have rights too, y'know. Not just malcontents with a superiority complex heh.
 
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