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Which is most toxic out of LSD and Psylocybin Mushrooms?

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thought lsd and psilocybin act on a hell of a lot more receptors than just the serotonin ones?
 
LSD these days is really hit or miss... . I've been getting a lot of blotter paper that isn't acid...

I really believe Mushrooms is a sure and safe bet.
 
^ this is a good point. if your picking yourself you know for sure what you got. lsd is the goods if you can acquire a proper source that is. i find lsd is more variable, produces a wider variety of effects/broader spectrum. i have had a couple of psyche shattering lsd trips, whereas iv iv pushed fungus but still never had a out of control frightful/shattering trip. its all good baby, go with the flow. yolo
 
There's no way you're going to be physically able to eat enough mushrooms to poison yourself with psilocybin. LSD, on the other hand, is possible to overdose on, just extremely expensive. So from a practical standpoint, LSD wins.
 
^ I'm exactly the opposite. LSD is very easily controlled for me, and only ever got out of hand once before when I was inexperienced.

While mushrooms even low doses sometimes kick my arse to the curb unexpectedly sometimes for seemingly no reason. They also seem generally darker in tone for me. I have many friends who say the exact inverse of this.

Try both and work your way up, seems to me that a person usually prefers one or the other.
 
John Griggs of the Brotherhood of Eternal Love died of an overdose of synthetic psilocybin according to Nick Schou's book Orange Sunshine. Not the same as natural shrooms but still evidence it is possible.
 
Cholly said:
Objectively, LSD's quite toxic, as the LD50 is 12,000 micrograms, or 12 milligrams*.The recreational dose is so low, and lsd is so expensive that it's never a problem. So gram for gram, LSD.

If we measured toxicity as the lethal dose divided by the recrational dose (known as the safety factor) I think mushrooms would be more toxic then.

*according to erowid; other sources have said 50,000 micrograms would be the ld50.
Click to expand...

I'm really glad to see someone referenced the ld50, thanks.

The figures for psilocybin are equally as reassuring from a safety/harm reduction perspective.

The toxicity of psilocybin is low. In rats, the median lethal dose (LD50) when administered orally is 280 milligrams per kilogram (mg/kg), approximately one and a half times that of caffeine. When administered intravenously in rabbits, psilocybin's LD50 is approximately 12.5 mg/kg
Psilocybin comprises approximately 1% of the weight of Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, and so nearly 1.7 kilograms (3.7 lb) of dried mushrooms, or 17 kilograms (37 lb) of fresh mushrooms, would be required for a 60-kilogram (130 lb) person to reach the 280 mg/kg LD50 value.

Just doing the maths in my head it would appear that LSD is safer, BUT it would be much easier to take the ld50 of lsd accidentally than it would to eat 17 kilos of mushrooms :)

My bet is that at around 4 ounces you would be tripping so hard that eating the next 6 carrier bags full would be an impossible mental task :)


And... If someone did ever attempt to eat that many mushrooms I would like to be present to film the event.



This article http://flipper.diff.org/app/items/info/4384 is one of the most current and thorough I could find on the subject.
 
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^ Although it's not really necessary since I don't think anyone will attempt such a feat I suppose it's worth reminding some who didn't know that the ld50 is when 50% of all the test subjects (usually rats/mice) died after administration, it's not the dose when things get dangerous, and complications can arise far far below this sort of dose.

Hopefully everyone knows this already but I thought it was worth mentioning in case there's that one crazy guy down the line who decides to eat several ounces of dry shrooms. ;)

The only additional thing I can offer to the thread is that mushrooms and the substances found in them (mainly Psilocybin and Psilocin) seem to notably elevate heart rate when taken at very large doses (15-20g+), but relatively these doses are only a single digit multiplier of what's considered a normal dose, while many people have taken 10-20+ hits of LSD with no noticeable physical side effects, and just an incredibly intense experience.

This would further back up the evidence webbykevin cited above ^^
 
One more point...I dont like to ingest fresh psilocybin due to the fact I've seen people that have done it then hurl up within a half an hour because of the microscopic (bugs) inside of the fruit eating their share.
 
Psilocybin is more toxic, but only barely. It's more like its less completely safe.
 
This seems almost as pointless as debating which of the teletubbies is the most warmongering...

Mentally I'd rather endure a very high LSD dose than a very high mushrooms dose, but physically I would probably prefer psiloc(yb)in because there might be less vasoconstriction, anxiety or increase in BP. On the other hand there are strange and desorienting sensations on mushrooms like feeling as though you are wetting yourself. LSD can be funky too but not the same way.

So since the relative safety of both these drugs has been pointed out about 20 times in this 2 year old thread, does anyone think there is a side to this we have not illuminated yet?
 
*Closed on account of being answered, getting redundant, and a little bit on account of the faecal flinging. ;)

Here is something that may be of interest though, if you wish to comment with something novel on this PM a mod to get the thread reopened.\

(((pmoseman))) said:
Safety ratios do not equal toxicity or acute toxicity. The alternative belief is false, and due to some very bad disinformation.

"Acute toxicity is the ability of a chemical to cause ill effects relatively soon after one oral administration or a 4-hour exposure to a chemical in air."[9]

The time it takes for LSD to have an effect is among the longest of all psychoactive substances. Making it less acutely toxic.[2] This has led to some serious misunderstanding. First of all, this is only in relation to other psychoactive substances! Secondly, it is only in relation to time, not toxicity, since this does not compare equivalent doses.

Safety ratio is a term used in lieu of therapeutic index. It is the ratio of a lethal dose to the effective dose. The lethal dose is where you die, 50% of the time. The effective dose is where you get high, 50% of the time.

The "safety ratio" for psilocybin and LSD are roughly similar and 100 times better than alcohol.[1]

safety ratio = LD50 ÷ ED50

The toxicity is a measurement of the amount of substance required to kill rats by oral ingestion (rats don't puke), which is used to estimate (hopefully) the amount required to kill humans. This is also a ratio.

toxicity = LD50 ÷ body mass

The toxicity of alcohol is roughly 5 times better than psilocybin and 90 times better than LSD.
(note: these are intravenous deliveries)

Alcohol:
1440 mg/kg (rat, i.v.)[4]

Psilocybin:
280 mg/kg (rat, i.v.)[3]

LSD:
16.5 mg/kg (rat, i.v.)[6]

LSD requires only a fraction of a gram to kill a human (~14mg), and can be categorically described as both super toxic[8][9] and highly toxic[5].
(note: the 0.2mg/kg LD50 of LSD is WAY below the "super toxic" threshold of 5mg/kg)

WARNING: "...studies done to determine acute LD50 values often report little other information besides the LD50 itself."[7]

DISCLAIMER: The information presented here is irrelevant and should not be used to supplement advise from a medical professional. The statements made are intended only to dispell current misconceptions.
(((January 2013)))

Calculations:
1440 ÷ 280 = 5
1440 ÷ 16.5 = 90
0.2mg/kg × 70kg = 14mg

References:
1. Drugs And Society: U.S. Public Policy By Jefferson M. Fish
--->books.google.com/books?id=xpZhjBuDkuwC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
2. Gable. Comparison of acute lethal toxicity of commonly abused psychoactive substances. 2004
--->http://rgable.wordpress.com/drug-toxicity/
3. Wikipedia (referencing Merck Index)
--->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin
4. MSDS: FISHER SCIENTIFIC CORPORATION
--->http://www.atmos.umd.edu/~russ/MSDS/ethanol_denatured.htm
5. GUIDANCE FOR HAZARD DETERMINATION FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE OSHA HAZARD COMMUNICATION STANDARD (29 CFR 1910.1200). U.S. Department of Labor Occupational Safety and Health Administration
--->http://www.osha.gov/dsg/hazcom/ghd053107.html
6. MAPS: LD50 of LSD (referencing Merck Index)
--->http://www.maps.org/old_forum/2000/msg00181.html
7. Comprehensive Guide to the Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances (RTECS)
--->www.cdc.gov/niosh/pdfs/97-119.pdf
8. John C. Klock, Udo Boerner, Charles E. Becker. Coma, Hyperthermia, and Bleeding Associated with Massive LSD Overdose a Report of Eight Cases. Clinical Toxicology; Informa Healthcare, Jan 1, 1975
9. What is a LD50 and LC50?. Canadian Center for Occupational Health and Safety
--->http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/ld50.html
10. Why Rats Can't Vomit
--->http://www.ratbehavior.org/vomit.htm
Click to expand...
 
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