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Which drug has more tar in it-tobacco or cannabis?

^i'm inclined to agree with you. I've had many discussions with an MD that was/is a huge opiate addict who was convinced the lungs would be like a bong after long term use, you know how it gets all clogged up with resin and stuff right? i always argued against him but he was far more knowledgeable than i am on the topic, still i haven't come to any conclusion either way, i don't smoke cannabis much anyhow and smoke cigarettes still so i guess it doesn't really matter to me lol.
 
1-That's false. Studies from New Zealend have linked cannabis smoking to lung cancer.

2-Post some links about those studies. I find that hard to believe, that long-term smokers have healthy looking lungs. Putting smoke into lungs clogs them up with tar. Marijuana's expectorant effects only minimize the harms of the smoke. It doesn't protect somebody's lungs 100% from the harmful effects of smoking.

The only studies that were successfully completed where they were able to isolate pot smokers from cigarette smokers demonstrated that cannabis does not cause cancer. Those were done by the AMA and British Medical Association. Most of the studies done around the world do not implement controls between cannabis smokers and cigarette smokers. Even if you smoked one pack of cigarettes in your entire life, your risk factors would be higher than someone who only smoked cannabis.

So far all the research I've read says it's either inconclusive or cannabis definitely does not cause cancer. Your studies from NZ do not compete with the most major medical associations in the western world. Try again.
 
Tar/resin after you burn cannabis is littered with hydrocarbons... Hydrocarbons are cancerous. Re-burning it is not even remotely healthy at all.

That is the reason I said tar/resin because that shit that you scrape out of your pipes is the same shit that is in your lungs.

Now tell me you find that much shitty tar in cigarettes...


Note: This is not about what is more cancerous, it is about tar content.

Cannabis definitely has more tar content, hell the active constituents of it are gummy. Resin can be considered a type of pitch...

Not all tar is derived from burning.

What does that mean?
 
highest Tar content ?

weed.

highest Shit that kills you content?

tobacco.
 
What does that mean?

Uh, excuse me... but I replied to your comments twice now. Are you just going to keep ignoring factual rebuttals? Because if you are, then you're nothing more than a troll and I will be closing this thread in short order.
 
Uh, excuse me... but I replied to your comments twice now. Are you just going to keep ignoring factual rebuttals? Because if you are, then you're nothing more than a troll and I will be closing this thread in short order.

While I get tired of his repetition too, I don't believe that was the point of his post. I think he was making the point that psychedelic jays comment that weed has more tar because the active ingredients are 'gummy' doesn't have any real meaning, hence the "What does that mean?"

If anything Psychedelic Jay is being the troll here, at least Elven Warriorr accepts the evidence when it's pushed in his face. Psychedelic Jay just accuses the researchers of using stoner logic.
 
Uh, excuse me... but I replied to your comments twice now. Are you just going to keep ignoring factual rebuttals? Because if you are, then you're nothing more than a troll and I will be closing this thread in short order.

I am not ignoring facts or trying to prove that I'm right. I just don't get what that comment of "cannabis being gummy" means.
 
1-That's false. Studies from New Zealend have linked cannabis smoking to lung cancer.

2-Post some links about those studies. I find that hard to believe, that long-term smokers have healthy looking lungs. Putting smoke into lungs clogs them up with tar. Marijuana's expectorant effects only minimize the harms of the smoke. It doesn't protect somebody's lungs 100% from the harmful effects of smoking.
I sympathize with your basic rationale, I do, for the perfectly good reason that I used to imagine smoking most any plant matter (oak leaves, dried ferns, etc.) habitually will cause cancer -- simply because by doing so you're depositing tiny bits of that which even fire cannot destroy in your lungs -- but, yeah, smoking cannabis has not been linked to developing lung cancer. There are studies showing cannabis has anti-turmeric properties across oncology, though you'd still think with all that burnt matter going into people's lungs that whatever anti-tumeric properties it has surely the damage done to the lungs if nothing else will overcome it. Nope. Apparently not enough to find a significant difference between non-smokers and moderate cannabis smokers anyways, which even the most jaded among us must admit is just awesome. If what these studies findings are suggesting is true then those who vaporize cannabis semi-regularly or more should have lower than normal incidences of many types of cancer, including lung cancer. Here's one of those studies. Smoking cannabis is still bad for your lungs, anybody who's coughed more after smoking knows that, but, no cancer.
 
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foreigner said:
Tar itself does not cause cancer, but it obstructs the cilia in the lungs from removing harmful and toxic debris.

Sorry to be a late-comer and a pedant, but this isn't really right. Tar is an aggregate of compounds that contains the vast majority of carcinogens found in plant-smoke (most being aromatic hydrocarbons). Other components of tar are more innocuous, just causing the blockages that you note.

ebola
 
Sorry to be a late-comer and a pedant, but this isn't really right. Tar is an aggregate of compounds that contains the vast majority of carcinogens found in plant-smoke (most being aromatic hydrocarbons). Other components of tar are more innocuous, just causing the blockages that you note.

ebola

Thanks for the clarification. Do you know of any examples of what's in the tar that can cause blockages (as opposed to the tar in its entirety)? I'd like to be more accurate in the future.

Also, do you think that maybe the medicinal properties of cannabis offset the carcinogenic properties? The cancer link has not been solidly established AFAIK despite the presence of obvious carcinogens.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Do you know of any examples of what's in the tar that can cause blockages (as opposed to the tar in its entirety)? I'd like to be more accurate in the future.

Also, do you think that maybe the medicinal properties of cannabis offset the carcinogenic properties? The cancer link has not been solidly established AFAIK despite the presence of obvious carcinogens.

The tar is wide mix of Carbon and different carbon bounded compounds. To name a really cancerous one - Benzene
 
Foreigner said:
Do you know of any examples of what's in the tar that can cause blockages (as opposed to the tar in its entirety)?

Swamp-fox has it essentially correct: tar consists of various long-chain hydrocarbons. Most of its component compounds are pretty sticky and thus prone to causing blockages. It's primarily the aromatic ones (and in particular those polyaromatic) that are carcinogenic.


Also, do you think that maybe the medicinal properties of cannabis offset the carcinogenic properties?

I find this extremely likely: I don't see how else we could explain how heavy cannabis users do not face increased risk of lung cancer other than via tumor-suppressing cannabinoids (cb2 agonism is likely part of but not the whole story).

ebola
 
Swamp-fox has it essentially correct: tar consists of various long-chain hydrocarbons. Most of its component compounds are pretty sticky and thus prone to causing blockages. It's primarily the aromatic ones (and in particular those polyaromatic) that are carcinogenic.




I find this extremely likely: I don't see how else we could explain how heavy cannabis users do not face increased risk of lung cancer other than via tumor-suppressing cannabinoids (cb2 agonism is likely part of but not the whole story).


ebola
I believe the lungs have the ability to clear hydrocarbon based carcinogens easily. It's the things that stick around like polonium that cause the actual damage. Polonium will stick around for 80 years, having a 40 year half-life.
 
I believe the lungs have the ability to clear hydrocarbon based carcinogens easily.

Yes, the lungs function quite adeptly at clearing out deposits (otherwise, they wouldn't work to well in environments with fine dust or wood fire based cooking). However, this doesn't really mitigate the damage of repeated exposure to carcinogens. In fact, lung cells divide very rapidly to facilitate such resilience, exacerbating carcinogenesis.

ebola
 
Yes, the lungs function quite adeptly at clearing out deposits (otherwise, they wouldn't work to well in environments with fine dust or wood fire based cooking). However, this doesn't really mitigate the damage of repeated exposure to carcinogens. In fact, lung cells divide very rapidly to facilitate such resilience, exacerbating carcinogenesis.

ebola

This.

Also, some Petroleum related hydrocarbons are cancerous in the same way Asbestos is cancerous. After reading about hydrocarbons with one certain molecular shape (don't remember what it was called, I have it book market on PC tho) are actually "too big" for blood cells to move, and therefore they can't be filtered out through the liver.

Normally, a foreign object is engulfed by a white blood cell, then take to the liver to be disposed of. When it's too big, the white blood cells, and certain antibodies will break the substance apart. This turns it into smaller pieces, which the white blood cells can move into liver to under go further metabolism or to be excreted.

The two I was reading about had a molecular structure that was too big to move, and couldn't be broken down by white blood cells, or antibodies. Therefore it just sits in the lungs. They also described the molecule being like a piece of glass in your lung tissue. Because it just sits there, as the tissue is moving, it actually tears and cuts the tissue apart - causing internal bleeding and scar tissue build up.

The lungs are able to expel some of these through exhalation, but the ones that don't (those certain hydrocarbon) can sit in your lungs for years without the body being able to do a thing about it.

These are the ones that are particularly cancerous. But as Ebola said, constant exposure causes irreparable damage overtime.

Don't fool yourself into believing that Hydrocarbons aren't as dangerous or cancerous, just because the body "removes them easily." It doesn't really matter what the smoke is made of. It's been retested, and reconfirmed everytime in every study over the past 120 years. Inhaling smoke can cause cancer. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. If you're inhaling smoke, eventually you're going to get cancer.

@ebola Even the studies provided stated that CB agonism isn't going to stop cancer in a moderate to heavy user. It merely states the users that only use once in a while (light users) have no increased risk if cancer.

From what I've read, the same thing goes for smoking cigarettes. Light users have a very decreased likelihood of developing cancer.

TL;DR - Smoke is cancerous. Period. Doesn't matter what "kind" of smoke it is. If it's been burned, and you're inhaling it - it's going to cause cancer. Science has proved that, again and again. If you don't believe, or can't accept that, then that's your problem, not science's.
 
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