Where would the world be without art?

[QuestionEverything]

I seriously hope not............ a painting just is..........there is nothing to read into it...........it just is.

There are plenty of things to read into paintings, do you really believe that??

 

[DarkCode]

Where would the world be?

Not in debt for one. Oh, and without a word, cause if theres no "art", theres not a word, and there sure as hell is not a definition. Would be a hell of a lot easier than dealing with fanatics that don't know the difference between their asshole and a hole in the ground. Get rid of the artists, graphic designs just fool around in paint til they see some text that looks good. But painters, sculpters, fuck them, we don't need multi-million dollar hundred-foot wide pieces of fingerpaint with some dude's name in the corner.

Btw, theater isn't art, fuck theater, and all those damn gothic looking drama kids who roam this earth... ahhh.. without art there'd be no emo kids and we'd be back to the way life should have been going... bunch of cave dude's kicking each others asses, smoking pot, and fucking bitches. Now that's not art, but thats just cool. :D

Btw, I'm a graphical design artist, and web developer... fuck me for being hypocritical, I'm high. Lol.

 

[pennywise]

EDIT.......meant for Pennywise......... Now that is a good post and i understand where your coming from.

You see for me........eating is just fabulous. I will go for days at a time eating nothing but vegemite sammiches just so i can splurge all out on a really special meal ............ If I had to look at a heap of art in order to get that fabulous meal then looking at art would only be as a means to an end.......and that end is enjoying the good things in life, which includes eating fabulous food.

Food is a bad thing to compare to art, because depending on where you draw the lines of where art begins and ends, food can be art. I'm sure there are gourmet chefs who consider themselves artists. If you follow that definition, you are actually eating art.

The problem arises when you limit your definition of art to the most traditional art forms like painting or sculpture, etc. I think that alot of the activities that people typically enjoy in life can be considered art or at the least contain artistic elements.

I tend to think of art as any creative expression. In that respect, anything, even how you drive or cook, can be considered artistic. If you accept that definition, then growth that we make in almost any category is dependent on art, and thus the world would be a pretty shitty place without it.

 

[MazDan]

Food is a bad thing to compare to art, because depending on where you draw the lines of where art begins and ends, food can be art. I'm sure there are gourmet chefs who consider themselves artists. If you follow that definition, you are actually eating art.

The problem arises when you limit your definition of art to the most traditional art forms like painting or sculpture, etc. I think that alot of the activities that people typically enjoy in life can be considered art or at the least contain artistic elements.

I tend to think of art as any creative expression. In that respect, anything, even how you drive or cook, can be considered artistic. If you accept that definition, then growth that we make in almost any category is dependent on art, and thus the world would be a pretty shitty place without it.

Damn...........your making sense but I will need time to digest it properly........I like.

 

[MazDan]

One of the largest points I think a lot of people miss when judging any form of abstraction (like the action painting) MazDan, is that generally speaking, these old 'firsts' were just that, the first person to have done such a thing, and thought in that new way. That's not only a huge step in the 'art world', but as FiatFlux stated, human consciousness.

While you may think the Mona Lisa is god dammed ugly, it's a piece of history, and shows great talent and technical ability, something few people have.

Sorry man, I just cant come at that sort of thinking.........its just not making sense to me.

From what your saying if I come up with a new idea then it should be lauded as special and brilliant and my givernment should pay 2 mill for it.

That is NOT a painting that exhibits anything except silliness although I will admit it has highlighted just how gulible socitey is for believing otherwise.

Sorry, but its just not a picture of anything.........its a con job.

Why is it a con job? because obviously the artist didnt have the ability to paint anything real. The only skill involved was the skill of making people believe it is anything other than what it ereally is..........rubbish..............but he is not the first and wont be the last........... some dude called jesus has still got people conned some 2000 years later.

 

[jam uh weezy]

So what do you think the value of art (not money wise but culturally) is?

I think the value of art lies in what it does for the individual artist, and the people who view their work. The feeling and emotional energy(whether bad or good) that is tansfigured onto/into a 'something' is like the best fucking therapy in the world. It's a way for us to relate to one another in a way that words cannot define(even when the piece of art IS words). It gives us something do dedicate ourselves to and perfect and feel wholesome. As humans, largely what we believe and how we define our behavior relies on SYMBOLOGY, and art allows us to formulate and express our own inner symbology, unconstrained by traditional societal values, roles, morals, etc(or maybe it was inspired by these things)....

What are your answers to the people who dont see or believe in the importance of art (and the arts, not just painting, etc but dance, music, and everything.)

Well what questions are they asking first of all? Basically though, if someone has it made up in their mind that art is worthless and in vain than I'll accept that as it is and find other things to talk with them about.

Well? How do you think this planet would be different without art? how would it look? where would we be?

Can't say, don't know, not sure....But I'm willing to be we would bet extremely neurotic and emotionally distant. Or maybe not, I don't know.

I dunno I've always like that song and this thread made me think of the verse I thought it applied here so yea...peace. It's called 'The Ride' by David Allan Coe

He said drifter can you make folks cry when you play and sing
Have you paid your dues?
Can you moan the blues?
Can you bend them guitar strings?
He said boy can you make folks feel what you feel inside?

 

[QuestionEverything]

Sorry man, I just cant come at that sort of thinking.........its just not making sense to me.

From what your saying if I come up with a new idea then it should be lauded as special and brilliant and my givernment should pay 2 mill for it.

Well, first of all, their governments didn't pay shit for it at the time.

That is NOT a painting that exhibits anything except silliness although I will admit it has highlighted just how gulible socitey is for believing otherwise.

Sorry, but its just not a picture of anything.........its a con job.

Why is it a con job? because obviously the artist didnt have the ability to paint anything real. The only skill involved was the skill of making people believe it is anything other than what it ereally is..........rubbish..............but he is not the first and wont be the last........... some dude called jesus has still got people conned some 2000 years later.

What is it then? Why do you think it's rubbish? I don't wanna derail this thread too much, but I truly don't understand what you are saying. What is it about it that you feel is rubbish or not real?? I'm not speaking of any stories or legends about the meaning behind the painting, but the painting itself. What's rubbish about it?

 

[protovack]

I love art, music...all of it. However, I don't believe humans are inherently "artistic." Cave paintings were largely inspired by their day-to-day activities. They were used to teach young people about hunting, for example.

Art has only "exploded" in the modern era, when technology had advanced to the point where people had leisure time, or when an upper class emerged that could afford to pay artists to do nothing but make art.

Putting bread on the table is a far more important thing than having a painting on your wall. But I'm not dissing art in any way. I'm a musician and I'd die without music. It's just that, some artists tend to have an overblown view of their own importance...like they "deserve" to be paid for just making art.

That is why you have very small niche artists who cater to the very rich, and then a whole bunch who struggle through life never really making enough money to support themselves. For those few artists who are good enough to sell their work at high prices, life is very good for them. If you can be one of those people, go for it.

If I had to choose, I would pick the society with doctors, physicists, and engineers any day over a primitive society overflowing with art.

We have enough time to do both. I know someone who is a great painter...who also teaches at a middle school as his main job.

I think some types of art are essential for some people, but not for others. Some people are obsessed with visual art. Personally, I don't get it. But music....that is a whole 'nother thing

That said, I do not "rely" on music like I rely on my vaccines working or my water running. I think there would be more than enough music on earth even if it was just made by people with other regular jobs.

Show me a person who says there isn't any value in music, painting, dance, architecture, verse, prose, sculpture, garment making, or design, and I'll show you someone who I wouldn't think twice about running over at a crosswalk.

I don't care about most of those things. Painting? I enjoy looking at them sometimes but the thought never crosses my mind unless someone says "hey look at this painting." Dance? I don't dance and don't really care about other people dancing. Architecture? A building is a building. The important thing is what goes on inside of it. Verse? Prose? Words should convey information or tell a story. I'm not sure if this is art. I don't like poetry or "literary" writing. Garment making? I wear only the most functional clothes, or nice clothes if I am required to. My personality resides in my brain, not on my clothing.

I love music though

 

[Khadijah]

There aint no point in sellin somethin to someone who aint buyin so I aint gonna preach on nothin but shiit.....

Just wanted to say that i know theres alot of crooked artists out there who make what looks like bullshit and try and make shit for money and scam people. but that dont mean art is some kinda bullshit gimmick racket.

I dont do the shit to make money i just do it for me cuz it makes me happy to get that shit out and make somethin that was visioned inside my mind. it just shows how im feelin and turns emotions into somethin tangible and productive. if dont nobody else like it, thats ok cuz i aint make it for them.



But, i gotta ask, mas dan, do you enjoy comic books? tattoos? any kinda cartoon? all that is art too....we aint just talkin about rich people stickin expensive paintings on their walls.

 

[MazDan]

OK allow me to explain myself cos there are a couple of different concepts going on here.

Firstly.........I dont hate or not appreciate art........I do however accept that my taste is going to be different to others.......I expect no two people are exactly alike.

Secondly........I dont under any circumstances understand why a piece of art should be worth any more than the effort that went into creating it, hence my argument re Blue poles not being worth 2 mill........mind you if someone likes it for whatever reason then i accept that but its still not worth 2 mill....... just cos someone really likes the way i put an electrical board together doesnt mean its worth 2 mill.......its still only worth the cost of materials and my hourly rate.

Thirdly.....regards Blue poles for example........its NOT a painting that can be taken seriously........a painting is of something.......that is NOT a painting.......a monkey could throw paint on a canvas just the same way.
Question everything.......there are stories and legends about that painting?????? OMG........seriously that just worries me........ Im sorry but that is just NOT a painting.......its a bit of canvas (well one would hope so or maybe the artist has conned everyone with that as well) with some paint on it........that is NOT art.



So please dont think I hate art.......I already made a quick selection of something that took my fancy in the galery to use an example........ I dont expect everyone else to like it......I do.

 

[bagochina]

I think the planet would be dead without art, its already heading down the overgrown trail anyways but with out art we would become a robotic organic cell society.

Art is in the language I type, it was in the formula's and theorem's Einstein pen'd, it was on the cave walls carved out by cave men, it was in the massive blocks of stone at Stonehedge. Art is a necessity in human life, by nature we are prone to try to express ourselves in many, many, many different mediums. Be it parchment, rock, glass, spray paint, glass, electronics, etc. The planet we live on is a living breathing [albeit labor intensive breathing] work of Art, from beautiful outcroppings of minerals that form in a crystalline structure, to the shadows that dance on the ground as bodies dance around the fire-pit, to the tagged railroad car, to the way someone dots their 'I's' with hearts, to the make-up girls [err.. guys] paste on there face, to the beat of the deer-hided drum. We are Art. Art is all encompassing.

We cant live with out it... Can you point to any human species that dont have art in their lives?

A stretch I know... but in reality true as the Ten Commandments chiseled into stone, or the 'telephone game' of the Ten Commandments themselves.

While the story teller speaks, a door within the fire creaks;
The story teller makes no choice. soon you will not hear his voice.
His job is to shed light, and not to master.
Since the end is never told, we pay the teller off in gold,
In hopes he will return, but he cannot be bought or sold.

Or something like that, to lazy and fulla medicines to elaborate.

Peace,
Seedless

 

[Khadijah]

^^I agree w/everything you said....

 

[QuestionEverything]

Thirdly.....regards Blue poles for example........its NOT a painting that can be taken seriously........a painting is of something.......that is NOT a painting.......a monkey could throw paint on a canvas just the same way.
Question everything.......there are stories and legends about that painting?????? OMG........seriously that just worries me........ Im sorry but that is just NOT a painting.......its a bit of canvas (well one would hope so or maybe the artist has conned everyone with that as well) with some paint on it........that is NOT art.



So please dont think I hate art.......I already made a quick selection of something that took my fancy in the galery to use an example........ I dont expect everyone else to like it......I do.

I was speaking of the Mona Lisa. I am perfectly fine with your difference in taste, and don't necessarily want to change your mind; I'm just curious regarding your statements about it being a con job.

 

[MazDan]

I was speaking of the Mona Lisa. I am perfectly fine with your difference in taste, and don't necessarily want to change your mind; I'm just curious regarding your statements about it being a con job.

haha well it just seems to me that the painter has chucked some paint on in the only way he knows how because he cant actually paint something and has then told the world.........ohh but its soooooooo deep and you can read so much into it...............seriously I am PMSL....... its a painting of nothing............ its like a Seinfeld show on canvas except everyone took it seriously.

Or maybe he just painted it and some so called expert looked at it and made up a pile of crap about how deep it was and because he is a so called expert everyone goes ohhhhhhhhh yeah...........lol, the ability of the human to just blindly follow never ceases to amaze me.

Reminds me of an excellent monty python skit......


--------[As Brian runs out of the city, one of his shoes (or is it a sandal?)
falls off. His followers stop, and Follower 5 picks it up.]
Folowr3 He has given us a sign!
Folowr5 He has given us... a shoe!
Folowr3 The shoe is the sign. Let us follow his example.
Spike What?
Folowr3 Let us, like him, hold up one shoe and let the other be upon our foot
for this is His sign, and all who follow Him shall do likewise.
Folowr2 Yes.
Folowr5 No no no.
Folowr2 No.
Folowr5 The shoe is a sign that we must gather shoes together in a bundle.
Folowr4 Cast off the shoes. Follow the gourd.
Spike What?
Folowr5 No. Let us gather shoes together. Let me...
Folowr4 Get off!
Folowr2 No, no. It is a sign that like him, we must think not of things of
the body, but of the face, and head.
Folowr5 Give me your shoe.
Folowr2 Get off!
Folowr4 Follow the gourd. The holy gourd of Jerusalem.
Folowr The gourd!
Folowr6 Hold up the sandal, as He has commanded us.
Folowr3 It is a shoe! It is a shoe!
Folowr6 It is a sandal!
Folowr3 No, it is a shoe!
Folowr4 Cast it away!
Folowr5 Put it on!
Folowr2 Clear off!
Folowr5 Take the shoes and follow him!



I think the blue poles painting is pretty much exactly like religion.......... if you choose to believe that its anything other than some haphazard paint on a canvas then you will believe it just as if you believe that there is a god you will believe it............ How can an anorexic person look in the mirror and not see they are skinny beyond belief? But they do. The mind is an amazing thing and is easily fooled.

 

[MazDan]

Ahh crap.......... QE........I just read your post again to ensure I had fully answered it and managed to read it differently this time.........If you felt I had suggested the Mona Lisa was a con job then not at all.

But I dont understand why its worth anything.........

1. Its a pretty boring picture.

2. Its old and appears to be all smudged and gunky.

3. Can you honestly say that if you saw it at a gallery you would buy it? Lets just say it had only just been painted.


4. Imagine all the diseases that are probably infested all over it from years of sitting in someones bathroom hanging just above the loo.

 

[QuestionEverything]

Ahh crap.......... QE........I just read your post again to ensure I had fully answered it and managed to read it differently this time.........If you felt I had suggested the Mona Lisa was a con job then not at all.

But I dont understand why its worth anything.........

1. Its a pretty boring picture.

2. Its old and appears to be all smudged and gunky.

3. Can you honestly say that if you saw it at a gallery you would buy it? Lets just say it had only just been painted.


4. Imagine all the diseases that are probably infested all over it from years of sitting in someones bathroom hanging just above the loo.

omg, you are cracking me the fuck up. Yeah, I think somewhere in there you were confused as to which work you were discussing with which people. To answer your question though, no, I would not buy it if I saw it in a gallery. I am not one to buy random portraits and hang them on my walls unless it's someone who means something to me personally; I can still appreciate it though.

Everyone has different taste, I get the impression that paintings just aren't your thing (i'm not trying to make assumptions here, correct me if i'm wrong). I am a painter though, so I know how long it takes to make a good, quality oil painting (and it's a lot more than 4 hours!!). I spend weeks/months/years on paintings. I can't speak for any other artist, but for me, there actually is meaning behind my paintings. I'm an emotional person and my art is a part of me - I can't separate the two (ok, i suppose I could paint things just because - just to do it - but i can't imagine doing that - it would be pointless to me).

Anyway, that's where i'm coming from. Lacey, I hope we haven't ventured too far off the original topic; I'm going with the idea that any discussion here is good discussion.

 

[MazDan]

I understand what your saying about a painting you are painting having meaning in it for you........yes totally but and I mean no offence........its not gunna have that meaning for anyone else unless of course you make them aware of it and then do the jedi mind trick stuff.........lol.

Paintings are cool, seriously and I really did like that one I picked out of the gallery........ I have a really special one here that was done with spray paint while I watched........cost me 20 bucks and was money well spent.

I think the part I dont understand is how you say your emotions are in your painting........I guess our brains just work differently.

If I was a painter and was angry then to display it I would take a can of black paint and chuck it on something.........preferrably the something that made me angry............but of course then i would be happy so I would need a can of yellow paint to make a smiley face........ thats about the extent of it for me.........lol, I dont see emotions in pictures, I just see a picture.

 

[xcidium]

I understand .....a painting you are painting having meaning in it for you........its not gunna have that meaning for anyone else

Why not?

That's the whole point, to make people see a/the meaning in your artwork, IMO.

 

[MazDan]

Why not?

That's the whole point, to make people see a/the meaning in your artwork, IMO.

Can you try and explain it to my thick head then?

show me examples maybe?

 

[Dtergent]

If you are to question your country's purchase of an art, you might as well criticize your country's investment portfolio. Worse for you, you will have to criticize any kind of tourism revenue, taxes, publicity, etc. it generates from purchased art. I don't believe they can please everyone. But I assume it has some form of cost-benefit aspect to it.

Art makes life interesting. At best, inspires awesome social evolution. Art is alive. People who visit the Louvre because they want their photo beside the Mona Lisa are like tourists who go on package tours and want to see this-and-that just because everyone and every magazine says they have to. But some people have an appreciation that goes beyond this, and you can't rag on that. I can say fuck Florence and its overpriced stores and drunken tourists, and grannies who regurgitate factoids about buildings but don't really like them. But I can't say anything about the true lovers of its unique architecture and history.

It is the same about art. Fuck the artsy fartsies who feign oohs and aahs and pffts, but props to those who are moved by art and stick to their heartfelt guns. The art market is a quantification of these collective sentiments.

Of course, all this largely depends on your definition of art. I assume you pertain to stereotypical glass-case art, which is often the result of much scholarship, consensus (of minds and market), and confluence of countless events. The lines are harder to draw these days, though. The last Art Basel had Design in its pouch. Chairs are in museums. Art is on the streets and your plate. And so on and so forth.