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where do australian pills come from?

T

the dirty beatnikz

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was just wandering about the mechanism for the creation/importation of most of the pills in australia...
i know holland is a major supplier for europe but do dutch pills get to australia ever?
the reason i ask is every anti drug propaganda pamphlet i have picked up allways has threatening warnings like "ecstacy and other amphetamines are usually made in clandestine backyard labs" but after studying a fair bit of organic chemistry i have come to the conclusion that it takes a fair bit more expertise to produce mdma than the average back yard criminal is capable of.... also the scale of production of some batches out lately would seem almost impossible yeilds with australia's control over some of the possible base chemicals...
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"What could be more relavent to today than a story about excess"
Terry Gilliam
 
I'd say most speedy pills are locally made for two reasons - one, you don't see many speedy pill reports overseas or on DanceSafe, and two, Australia has a pretty long established love affair with producing and consuming speed. You can usually tell locally made speedy pills by their chalky appearance and poor press. That's another thing - local pill producers don't really have access to a press, apparently they are fairly complex & expensive. So, speedy pills are by far made here, possibly with SOME overseas ingredients (eg K.)
As for MDMA pills (and the other variants) I'd say about 2/3 come from Europe, not necessarily Holland because freight going through there would be pretty closely watched, but certainly somewhere in Europe, possibly the UK or Spain. The other third would probably come from Asia, it seems a bit odd that most people overlook Asia but I don't see why people there aren't producing pills. In many ways it's less restrictive in terms of trade, freight & availibility of ingredients than Europe, so it makes sense.
Is this what anyone else thought? Obviously it's all just hypothetical - unless there's a simulatenoues bust of every drug & amphetamine ring in the world, we will never know
smile.gif
 
keep in mind that most of the major importation busts recently have also recovered large amounts of MDMA powder. this could, i have no doubt does, end up in some local presses. also there is some MDMA being made in australia. the line of imports=good/local=bad is getting increasingly blurred....
as for asia, most people forget,or don't realise, that MDMA is being manufactured in the Golden Triangle. Burmese groups have been making it for a couple of years now, and there has always been a huge trade from there to here. probably 80% of Australian heroin still comes form that area.
It's always a guessing game but sometimes you can make pretty good guesses. One guess that's been recently made is that the HQs came out of Asia. The evidence? Lots of them here, some reports from Honk Kong and Singapore, and some on the west coast of the US but none in europe or the east coat...
oh please dont this thread degenerate into anothe argument about HQs. there's enough threads on them already...
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 11 January 2001).]
 
Very true jb,
increasingly hearing about powder made right here in our own backyards. I don't think its so much a matter of import vs shit aussie, as a matter of experience, money and connections vs small budget, little exp, trying to make a quick buck.
Anyhoo, thats my 5c worth.
 
i'd say a lot more pills come from asia than expected.. apparently both the hammers and yonnex's that perth had a few months ago came from indonesia.. and i would assume the two new batches of both as well.. and the hq theory would make a lot of sense..
 
I believe you could make them here , and have seen some interesting work arounds using Australian Flora for some of the watched precursors, it would be just to much work , trouble and stress though for most people, especially those just interested in helping themselves with small time stuff........which is most people with enough of the right education to try... and then ya gotta know people who know people ya know...actually exactly what SupaSpeed said..... just my 2 Cents
[This message has been edited by SchlinkY (edited 11 January 2001).]
 
A lot of our pills are coming from Asia, with countries such as Indonesia being used to transport it all here...It's a country that is close to us, they can easily get here (how many ships dont get detected) and is full of corruption which allows for drugs to be moved as a business to line the government officials pockets..and it is a former Dutch colony still with many ties to Holland....
both that and the fact that countries in the asia region are mainly third world which allows for easier production of substances..and if you are caught you can always bribe your way out
smile.gif

It would be interesting to know where most of our imports come from, we all know there are too many local dodgy pills, but my money on the imports is through Asia....
peace
 
Having tried the pills here in London, I can almost guarantee that the majority of our pills don't come through Europe. They're obsessed with mitsubishis here and at least half of the pills we get here are mitsi's (marketing a brand!)
I was talking to a girl I met in a club who was from Hong Kong and she agreed the pills that come through asia in comparison to those from Holland/Europe are very different....much stronger.
From comparing her experiences and my own both in London and back home we definitely decided that most of the imported pills in Aust come through asia.
I've also heard that Israel is a large manufacturer of ecstacy pills, although I have no idea if any of these filter through to us in Australia.
 
we have to differentiate between countries that make MDMA and those involved in it's smuggling. from what i understand israel isn't a big source of MDMA, rather criminal groups operating out of israel are reponsible for a lot of smuggling in europe and into america.
 
ICQ is increasingly a dodgy little program. For me and most people I know anyhow.
For me this topic begs the question What is ecstasy?
Or rather What is most commonly percieved as ecstasy.
Speed bombs are likely produced in 'back yard' labs. Speed bombs containing speed, meth, ketamine, psuedoephidrine, codeine, etc.
MDMA seems rather difficult make. You'd need a good knowledge of chemistry, including the practical side. And you'd need precursors that are very hard to come by on any market in Oz. Hence the small scale of local mdxx production. And the difficulty of acquiring and maintaining a pill press in Oz would help explain the congruence between crumbly pills and dodgy pills.
Hence most of your mdxx pills come through channels among those stated above.
Or so I believe
smile.gif
 
i've always wondered; if you cant get a pill press how can you make pills? by hand? i think rather than not having pill presses, local makers have them but dont use them correctly, or cant be bothered, resulting in less professional pills...
 
MDMA pills can be (and have been) made locally, possibly with imported powder. not so much as manufacturing the powder itself.
and some locally pressed pills can look very good, whether speedbombs or MDMA.
 
this is a U.S. government report on trends in international drug smuggling etc. the focus is on it's impact on the U.S. but there are some interesting points. the 98 and 99 reports are rather lacking in detail.
International Narcotics Control Strategy Report, 1997
Released by the Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, U.S. Department of State
Washington, DC, March 1998
Australia
..."Ecstasy" continues to be popular among those involved in the "rave" and dance cultures, although there are some reports that "rave" parties are on the decline. "Rave" is a kind of intense dancing, on occasion to the point of exhaustion; it is an attraction at certain nightclubs all over the world. There are no reports of ecstasy manufacture in Australia. The majority of Australia's ecstasy comes from Europe and the United Kingdom. The distribution and use of the drug appears to be increasing in Malaysia and Indonesia, providing a likely trafficking route to Australia.
During 1997, debate over a proposal to establish heroin maintenance experiments with long-term addicts in several areas, including Canberra, attracted considerable public interest and media coverage. Ultimately, the Federal Government blocked the proposed project. But so called "harm reduction" policies continue to have their supporters, including support for de-criminalization
of marijuana. (jb: and pilltesting
wink.gif
)
INDONESIA
While Indonesia is not a major producer of narcotics or a narcotics-derived money laundering center, it is increasingly used as a transit point for Southeast Asian heroin destined for Australia, the United States, and Europe.
...The production, sale and consumption of "ecstasy" have become major problems, notably in urban areas such as Jakarta. International trafficking in the drug is also growing rapidly, though much of this entails smuggling of the drug into Indonesia, especially from Western Europe.
...In recent years Indonesian authorities have focused increasingly on the elimination of consumption of and trafficking in "ecstasy". Official anti-narcotics concern over designer drugs, notably "ecstasy,"
has eclipsed government concern with more traditional narcotics (marijuana).
http://www.state.gov/www/global/narcotics_law/1997_narc_report/seasi97.html
Click to expand...
Statement of Robert Gattison
Special Agent in Charge, Atlanta
Before the HouseCommittee on Government Reform Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources
Atlanta, Georgia
September 18, 2000
Good Morning Mr. Chairman, and other distinguished members of the Committee.
I would like to thank the Committee for this opportunity to testify here today regarding the law enforcement activities of the U.S. Customs Service as they relate to the smuggling of methamphetamine and date rape or "club" drugs.
...The vast majority of Ecstasy is produced in the Netherlands. The Netherlands is to Ecstasy as Colombia is to cocaine. Smugglers export primarily from Amsterdam, or across the uncontrolled borders to neighboring European Union states or other international hubs such as Brussels, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf,
Paris or London.
...Our seizures of Ecstasy and follow-up investigations have identified numerous
criminal drug smuggling organizations that are heavily involved in this highly profitable activity. Investigations have disclosed that the Israeli Organized Crime is heavily involved.
http://www.house.gov/reform/cj/hearings/00.09.18/gattison.htm
Click to expand...
FEDS TRY TO KEEP TABS ON ECSTASY]
By JACK NEWFIELD, New York Post
...Most Ecstasy that reaches the U.S. is distributed by the "Israeli Mafia," Kelly said.
"They have a very strong and efficient distribution system ... some of the leaders of the Israeli syndicate are Russian gangsters who emigrated to Israel."
..."Nine months ago we were arresting a lot of Hasidic teenagers. Now we are arresting Israeli and Dutch nationals, invalids in wheelchairs and lawyers.
...Kelly said he doesn't believe there's a single drug kingpin based in Israel or the Netherlands controlling the Ecstasy supply.
"The traffic is very compartmentalized and the leaders are very insulated and sophisticated," he said.
"We are breaking one smuggling cell at a time, convicting the couriers, and flipping them against the suppliers and the higher-ups in Europe and Israel."
http://www.nypost.com/05142000/commentary/29641.htm
Click to expand...
this french report from 1993 has some interesting angles.
Ecstasy: A Drug in Expansion with Multiple Risks
Michele Rudler
Universite Rene Descartes, 2, Place Mazas, F. 75012, Paris, France
...The main network comes from Eastern European countries in which failed industries have found a new channel for basic chemical production in making methylenedioxy amphetamine and drug trafficking is now facilitated by the opening up of European boarders. The main producers are Latvia and Bulgaria, who export drugs to the Persian gulf and Poland, then on to Scandinavian
countries (20% of Ecstasy come from Poland). Drug turnaround is concentrated in Warsaw,
Budapest, Prague and Sofia, there is also an important traffic through Thailand. Ecstasy,
now widely distributed in Europe and in the USA, is finding its way into France via the
Netherlands, the UK, Belgium, Germany, Sweden and Denmark, all of which have a large consumption of this drug.
A international UN report on narcotic trafficking in 1994 pointed to Vienna as
harbouring certain factors which facilitated the circulation of Ecstasy (Le Monde, 2/3/93,
p.12).
There is a flourishing 'narco-tourism' in Dutch frontier towns such as Maastricht,
Heerlen, Venlo, Enschede etc, where dealers and users can easily find soft and hard drugs.
Furthermore, traffic is facilitated by Dutch law which authorises the sale of soft drugs.
However, the discrimination between soft and hard drugs is difficult to apply in these
boarder towns where numerous "coffee-shops" are allowed to sell narcotics (30g
cannabis for each client ...).
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Misc/driving/s16p4.htm
Click to expand...
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 12 January 2001).]
 
This is my two cents:
Wouldnt it be logical to think that the further down the line you are from production the more expensive the pills. Simple economics. As pills go from country to country everyone would add a little to the price for their cut. Therefore the cheaper the pill the closer to the source. For example everyone knows heaps of pills come out of Holland. Therefore the pills are very cheap there. In the UK pills are still close to Holland but a little more expensive, the extra profit going to the importers...you get my drift?
This leads to my point. I was recently in indonesia and found to my suprise that over there they have very good pills at a fraction of the price of Australia. To me that would suggest that pills are either produced there or somewhere very near by. This is because it is illogical to think that they would be smuggled into indonesia when the supplier would only make a small profit when they could instead be smuggled into Oz where they could make a large profit. Methinks indo is a big producer.
 
that depends on wether the price reduction on pills is comparitive to the price reduction on all goods...
ie wether or not the price of those pills is relatively cheap compared to say a big mac meal deal (*spew*) ora gram or whizz...
maybe the major organisations should include the price of good e in the standard of living calculations for each country?
smile.gif
 
Theories from me:
smile.gif

I guess that some people have business links in countries other than their own. Hence pills passing through countries without changing ownership maybe.
As for the cause of dodgy pressings. I've always thought it was due to makeshift presses. You can make one out of other materials... like McGyver! But of course, nowhere near the quality.
They could be from incorrect use... but if you can get hold of a pill press illegally in Australia, you shouldn't have trouble getting information on its' use.
 
I am not convinced that Indonesia a producer of MDMA at all and neither is malaysia/Singapore.
My reason for msia/Spore not being a producer would be the extremly tough laws on drugs.
HOWEVER, These 3 countries are channels for MDMA..the prices in these 3 countries are also a fraction of that in Aust, almost 70% cheaper than in Aust.
Thailand/Cambodia/Laos being the main producers i would think.
Also, someone from singapore has also mentioned that singapore gets their supply straight in from Holland. I find this hard to believe, however, this source seems credible enuff. You go figure for yourself!!
 
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