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What will the radical left do after the Trump win

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-=SS=- said:
It is deliberate, without a doubt. Who and why is choosing to do this, is up for debate. I think it goes well beyond the democrats, or Tony Blair in the UK; he stated he 'wanted to rub the right's noses in it'.. but I think it goes deeper than this. Think about it, the CIA (and MI6) are supposedly there to protect the safety and integrity of the country.. they would know such movements of people are inherently unsafe (especially for the UK, with Islamists coming over), and surely they would be assassinating and taking out those responsible for it. But no, nothing has been done and it continues to get worse, regardless of which government is in power.

It is happening to the USA, Canada, UK, the whole of the EU. It's another one of those seemingly 'coordinated incompetence' scenarios. Borders are a national security issue, and personally I think it is asinine to suggest this is just incompetence.

Incredibly frustrating, because it's only going to end in disaster. Whoever is ultimately responsible for it is fucking evil.
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Happening in all white countries you mean?
 
jasperkent said:
I remember the late 1960s & early 1970s when there were violent radical left groups like the Weather Underground & the Symbionese Liberation Army.

There were occasional bombings, bank robberies, and kidnappings (remember Patty Hearst?), but nothing serious enough to disrupt society even a little bit.

Bomb threats in high schools were common, but they were always just that-- threats. We'd all go outside while the school was searched, and it was funny to the students. Of course we never had actual school shootings, so it was all a joke to us.
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The US was very white back then.
 
-=SS=- said:
One the reasons why this even happened in the first place was because, as you alluded to with the 'Helen Lovejoy' quip, people (rightly) tried to move away from prudish and overbearing Christian value systems. The mistake that was made was assuming that all the positions of the Christian (and other faiths) regarding sexuality and moral points were erroneous, when in fact on proper examination it will be found that actually many of the points raised in those texts have demonstrable psychological roots based upon generations of observation of human behaviours - however faulty the translation or preaching of it thousands of years down the line. And I say that as someone with no affinity or love for Christianity (or any religion).
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Do you think that sexuality should be completely unrestricted by society? If not, what amount of restriction is acceptable?
 
fairnymph said:
Do you think that sexuality should be completely unrestricted by society? If not, what amount of restriction is acceptable?
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I believe that society has no to right to restrict sexuality. This does not extend to make sexuality public. Sexuality should remain discrete so as to give everyone the space and freedom to do whatever they want sexuality yet not force those who do not share that view to share that experience.

When I was young all that occurred totally in private because people restrained themselves and did not do that in public (even hetero sexual, all equal) People got along just fine.

Now everyone wears their private life on their sleeve like it's a virtue. TMI on a worldwide stage. Should we expect a different result? With so many people and so many different viewpoints, perhaps we are oversharing.
 
Cheshire_Kat said:
I believe that society has no to right to restrict sexuality. This does not extend to make sexuality public. Sexuality should remain discrete so as to give everyone the space and freedom to do whatever they want sexuality yet not force those who do not share that view to share that experience.

When I was young all that occurred totally in private because people restrained themselves and did not do that in public (even hetero sexual, all equal) People got along just fine.

Now everyone wears their private life on their sleeve like it's a virtue. TMI on a worldwide stage. Should we expect a different result? With so many people and so many different viewpoints, perhaps we are oversharing.
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It’s not about society having a right…it’s about the fact that people care about what others do, and what we do affects others, to varying extents.
 
fairnymph said:
Do you think that sexuality should be completely unrestricted by society? If not, what amount of restriction is acceptable?
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Why should it be restricted in the first place? The only exceptions would be of course not exposing or involving children in it, and not secreting fluids out in public places - if someone wants to fuck in a country field or whatever, fine, just be discreet about it. I mean it's natural after all, no one should be getting penalized for acting discreetly in nature for god sake.

I don't think taking a political solution to a biological issue is ever going to work. The key is to understand and comprehend it properly (the biological issue) first, and act according to that. Which is something we've still not done, because of all the shame and downstream effects of the prudish, shameful, and religious condoning of it over centuries. I believe once people get it out of their system, we work out the psychological wrinkles, over time it will settle down back into a stable state.. as it should be. Political solutions are always about trying to force a vision on people, without understanding the aspect of seeing first. That never, ever works in the long run. The secret is to understand, to comprehend nature.. instead of trying to beat it into submission and to a place that it naturally will not go.

Like the 60's sexual revolution, that was just the rebound effect of centuries of repression. We're now working through that rebound effect. And it will balance out in the end. You can see it happening already, with discussions about pornography and relationships generally, people are still trying to figure it out in the absence of the culture itself not bothering to try and figure it out.

If our culture placed more emphasis on getting the teenagers and young adults, who are coming into sexual function, to play and explore that side of humanity together without condemnation in a safe environment.. instead of wasting time learning three different languages and a bunch of academic nonsense they'll forget completely within ten years.. then perhaps people wouldn't be so messed up. I mean the whole point of humanity is relationship, and we still treat it like we do with the world of work.. in that you must be perpetuating the cultural system from 9-5 every week and maybe you'll have time on the weekend to try exploring actual life. What the fuck is that? This is one of the reasons we 'need' politics, because we're breaking people before they even get off the ground and that causes so many issues downstream that then 'require' a solution. The real solution is to not cause the issue in the first place, and our culture fails miserably at that by not honouring what we are.
 
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-=SS=- said:
Why should it be restricted in the first place? The only exceptions would be of course not exposing or involving children in it, and not secreting fluids out in public places - if someone wants to fuck in a country field or whatever, fine, just be discreet about it. I mean it's natural after all, no one should be getting penalized for acting discreetly in nature for god sake.

I don't think taking a political solution to a biological issue is ever going to work. The key is to understand and comprehend it properly (the biological issue) first, and act according to that. Which is something we've still not done, because of all the shame and downstream effects of the prudish, shameful, and religious condoning of it over centuries. I believe once people get it out of their system, we work out the psychological wrinkles, over time it will settle down back into a stable state.. as it should be. Political solutions are always about trying to force a vision on people, without understanding the aspect of seeing first. That never, ever works in the long run. The secret is to understand, to comprehend nature.. instead of trying to beat it into submission and to a place that it naturally will not go.

Like the 60's sexual revolution, that was just the rebound effect of centuries of repression. We're now working through that rebound effect. And it will balance out in the end. You can see it happening already, with discussions about pornography and relationships generally, people are still trying to figure it out in the absence of the culture itself not bothering to try and figure it out.

If our culture placed more emphasis on getting the teenagers and young adults, who are coming into sexual function, to play and explore that side of humanity together without condemnation in a safe environment.. instead of wasting time learning three different languages and a bunch of academic nonsense they'll forget completely within ten years.. then perhaps people wouldn't be so messed up. I mean the whole point of humanity is relationship, and we still treat it like we do with the world of work.. in that you must be perpetuating the cultural system from 9-5 every week and maybe you'll have time on the weekend to try exploring actual life. What the fuck is that? This is one of the reasons we 'need' politics, because we're breaking people before they even get off the ground and that causes so many issues downstream that then 'require' a solution. The real solution is to not cause the issue in the first place, and our culture fails miserably at that by not honouring what we are.
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I said nothing about politics. I specifically said social restriction. Social pressure works better than legal pressure, and is more ethical.

Promiscuity is very harmful for a variety of reasons, particularly for women. At the individual level, at the group level, at the society level. Too much sexual freedom and we get degeneracy, low birth rates, and total social decline, as we’re experiencing now, and as has been seen in the past when other civilisations have decayed.

Most people are not smart enough to understand or even inclined to want to understand things on a fundamental level. I’m a big fan of truth, but it’s of minimal use as a social tool. For the vast majority of people moral rules are more important. That’s why evolutionary psych/bio is so great because it supports what many religions (& all successful cultures) have been affirming for millennia. Not entirely ofc, but basic red pill stuff that’s obviously true for most people most of the time.

Young people do not need encouragement to explore their sexuality. It’s built in. Removing adaptive social restraints has been wildly destructive. Some religions take sexual repression much too far, but most of those are still better than complete sexual freedom. Of course, you can be sex positive while also promoting healthy values and actions, but this will remain rare unless/until a hard culture religion incorporating it becomes successful.
 
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Also the trend of lower amount of previous sexual partners that couples have the more successful their marriages are
 
fairnymph said:
I said nothing about politics. I specifically said social restriction. Social pressure works better than legal pressure, and is more ethical.
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Yes, but all attempts at sexual restriction are political in nature. They are man made attempts to confine natural forces according to some ideal, and not necessarily in the best interests of the individual or collective. Of course being semi-autonomous creatures we were always going to struggle to put the sexual force into a proper context, it's a work in progress that we're still trying to figure out. Trying to marry the sexual force with our advanced conscious state is an unresolved issue, individually and collectively.
fairnymph said:
Promiscuity is very harmful for a variety of reasons, particularly for women. At the individual level, at the group level, at the society level. Too much sexual freedom and we get degeneracy, low birth rates, and total social decline, as we’re experiencing now, and as has been seen in the past when other civilisations have decayed.
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This presupposes a particular moral template as well as a civilizational template intertwined with that, something I don't agree with. I think that is a particular arrogant narrative - not saying you are - that we cling on to, to justify the current order of things in our 2000 year history. This is why I mentioned the anthropological studies that show different peoples differing modes of being, including sexuality. Basically, things may be becoming unravelled because we are not living in balance with what we are, and the sexual hyperactivity is just a symptom of distress at a much deeper level and not the problem in itself.

I mean the trope about the teenage boy/girl who has suffered neglect from their parents or suffered trauma, going on to act out hypersexual behaviour.. that is a valid thing that occurs, but the sexual acting out isn't the root issue. They are profoundly emotionally and neurologically damaged people, that society itself has caused by through its environment and also potentially damaging the parents too who just pass on that damage.
fairnymph said:
Young people do not need encouragement to explore their sexuality. It’s built in. Removing adaptive social restraints has been wildly destructive. Some religions take sexual repression much too far, but most of those are still better than complete sexual freedom. Of course, you can be sex positive while also promoting healthy values and actions, but this will remain rare unless/until a hard culture religion incorporating it becomes successful.
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Destructive for who. The societal order, which may be erroneous in itself, or the child.. who is just trying to learn and grow?

See, I disagree with the first sentence there. I think young people do need encouragement, more importantly the right template to follow. I think you might be fearing that they'll just descend into an orgiastic free-for-all, but it doesn't have to be that way. Where our culture fails in particular is with women, in that it robs them of a particular power and quality they have, puts a tremendous burden of shame on them regarding sexuality but also essentially grooms them from a young age to be sex objects.. a powerful cognitive dissonance and double-bind.

Even in the more 'moral' Victorian era for example, women were still just seen as the broodmare. The society only cared in so far as they would help produce the next crop of taxable subjects and coal mining expendables. It didn't give a shit about female sexuality. And as a consequence we see the rebound of that prudishness today.

You can't repress and confine this thing. We have to be frank and open about it, and figure out a way to transmute it in the long run. And that has to start with the adolescents as they become active. The whole procedure of keeping teenagers largely atomized and divided through cultural games is reaping a tremendous cost, for them as individuals and as a collective with the increasing rates of mental troubles and unfortunate violent events as well.

I mean look at Islam, or the Vatican church hierarchy of buggery, to see what happens when you try to contain this thing. All that could be avoided if, when adolescent, they were encouraged in a healthy way to explore with the opposite sex as a cultural priority. To help them ultimately find the most compatible partner - I mean shit, look only two generations back and people were getting married and then finding out they were sexually incompatible, leading to.. violence (inwardly or outwardly).
 
Destructive for EVERYONE.

Speaking AS a woman, it’s very clear to me that I’ve been hurt only by sexual liberation, never by repression.

Motherhood is the highest calling for 99.9% of women.

I don’t understand why you think everyone can be like you. They can’t and they won’t. Not anytime soon. It would be great if everyone were willing and able to understand things and want to transmute but that’s just not how the world works. We have to work with reality.
 
you say this:
fairnymph said:
I don’t understand why you think everyone can be like you. They can’t and they won’t. Not anytime soon. It would be great if everyone were willing and able to understand things and want to transmute but that’s just not how the world works. We have to work with reality.
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after you said this:
fairnymph said:
Destructive for EVERYONE.

Speaking AS a woman, it’s very clear to me that I’ve been hurt only by sexual liberation, never by repression.

Motherhood is the highest calling for 99.9% of women.
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you're painting with a wide bruah based upon YOUR experience, basically invalidating everyone else's opinion on the matter with a single anecdote
 
fairnymph said:
I said nothing about politics. I specifically said social restriction. Social pressure works better than legal pressure, and is more ethical.

Promiscuity is very harmful for a variety of reasons, particularly for women. At the individual level, at the group level, at the society level. Too much sexual freedom and we get degeneracy, low birth rates, and total social decline, as we’re experiencing now, and as has been seen in the past when other civilisations have decayed.

Most people are not smart enough to understand or even inclined to want to understand things on a fundamental level. I’m a big fan of truth, but it’s of minimal use as a social tool. For the vast majority of people moral rules are more important. That’s why evolutionary psych/bio is so great because it supports what many religions (& all successful cultures) have been affirming for millennia. Not entirely ofc, but basic red pill stuff that’s obviously true for most people most of the time.

Young people do not need encouragement to explore their sexuality. It’s built in. Removing adaptive social restraints has been wildly destructive. Some religions take sexual repression much too far, but most of those are still better than complete sexual freedom. Of course, you can be sex positive while also promoting healthy values and actions, but this will remain rare unless/until a hard culture religion incorporating it becomes successful.
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Low birth rates have alot more to do with the fact that people have far less money to have kids nowadays. Kind of hard to have kids when you can barely afford a 1 room apartment. So neo liberalism can be blamed for this as well

I see removal of societal restrains about sexuality as a good thing. Sexual repression never leads to anything good
 
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