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What the hell is up with my "hangovers"?

ElectroSanta

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
81
Location
Boston, MA
I know this probably has been asked before, but I'm really curious.

I haven't done MDMA that often, and the only times I have had hangovers were when I had rolls cut with meth. I can tell when it's a meth hangover, it feels like I did DXM: exhausted but wired, I feel like I spent the entire night sleepwalking or sleep-running, and I dislike food for a good day or two.

When I do MDMA without meth, though, I never have the "suicide Tuesday", I don't get down in the dumps, and sleep comes pretty easy. I have crazy dreams, but I always have crazy dreams, so I don't know if that's part of it. Actually, for a good week or two after I roll, I feel very...good. Content. Hell, even happy. Even if my rolling experience wasn't euphoric and monumental, even if I was just sitting around and playing with a piece of string for a few hours, I would wake up every day feeling like my life is pretty damn good.

I had a bad experience on MDMA once. I was in a crackhouse with people breaking bottles and rubbing blood on the walls. Really fucked up stuff. I sat in a closet for an hour waiting until my peak was over so I could start walking home. Shit like that can really break a person, but I still felt wonderful for 2 weeks. Not only was I thankful that nothing bad happened, but I was really appreciative of life.

After about two weeks, I go back to my normal ho-hum self. The happiness tapers off slowly, and I realize I'm no longer =D, I'm just :|.

I do have depression, and I know that a person with depression has so many issues with seratonin and dopamine. But MDMA releases seratonin, it shouldn't "fix" it...should it?
 
MDMA helped me greatly with PTSD. Allowed me to love myself and fellow humans, 100% through and through, like I never had before. It can rewire a glitchy 5-ht network; this is why MAPS is trying to get it done for medical use.
 
I've tried tons of medications over the years to fix my depression, PTSD, and anxiety. Honestly, it seems so counter-productive, having to go through all these steps and motions to get "approved" for a medication, having to check in every week to make sure it's working, tweaking the dosage, adding other medications--not to mention the side effects that come with it. And the whole time, I question whether it's actually working or not. I've stopped taking my Prozac because honestly, it was doing jack shit. Since I've been off of it (granted, only about a week), I've been feeling more...up. I know the crash may come soon, but I no longer worry about having an anxiety attack over doing something. I just say I'm gonna do it, even if I know I will end up in the fetal position under the bed, freaking out.

One of the main reasons for stopping my medication was to use MDMA. I miss feeling content. At the time I was doing it frequently, I was working over 50 hours a week in retail, had a long distance boyfriend, and the world's shittiest friendships. Everything was against me. One night of MDMA would make me content for two solid weeks. The next two weeks, I would tolerate things. After that, I would lose my shit, pop a roll, and repeat.

I really want to harness that content feeling, make it last as long as possible. The only way I can see that happening is taking MDMA before going to therapy. I wonder if my therapist would be okay with that...hmm.
 
Perhaps instead of a therapist (I don't know their policies on MDMA) you could find a close friend to take it with, or someone who has more experience with the drug, to lead you in the right directions. The goal isn't so you have to keep taking MDMA, that's not sustainable and then e just becomes your source of happiness, which is very unhealthy. The goal is to see what is possible, have the light shown to you per se, and then spend the rest of the time trying to get back to that place in a sober state of mind.

Good luck with the prozac btw, SSRI's are complete shit in my book. My roommate is on prozac...she's kinda like a zombie sometimes. Most of the time really.

Also, I don't know if you're familiar with adaptogenic herbs (rhodiola rosea, panax ginseng, kava kava, cordyceps mushrooms, etc.) but they are essential in this day and age with these insane levels of stress we all deal with. I used to self medicate a lot with various drugs, but the herbs help me keep myself in check and stay healthy without any bad side effects or having to deal with drug dealers, since you can get these at any whole foods store or online.

Just for example, one I take nearly everyday lately, rhodiola rosea, let us see how awesome this stuff truly is -

"What Does Rhodiola Do?

Rhodiola Rosea, Commonly known as Root of the Arctic, or Golden Root, is almost unknown in the United States. In Arctic Siberia the location of Rhodiola Rosea plants are a closely held secret among families who live there. The emperor of China used to organize expeditions to Arctic Siberia to bring back this highly valued plant. Rhodiola Rosea is an adaptogenic herb along the lines of more famous cousins such as ginseng, ashwaganda, suma, etc.

Rhodiola Rosea, however, is more powerful and may be the best adaptogenic herb available. Research by Russians began in 1931 when Rhodiola Rosea was found to increase sexual potency. In a test of 35 subjects with weak erections and/or premature ejaculations, 50 mg per day was found to provide substantial improvement in 26 of the 35. The levels of 17-ketosteroids in seminal fluid showed an increase in the production of sex hormones.

Women had much the same result. 40 women with secondary amenorrhea (lack of menstruation) were given 100 to 150 mg per day of Rhodiola and 25 resumed their periods and 11 became pregnant."

"Adaptogen: Increases body's ability to handle stresses of all kinds. Partly, this is because it "tones down" the sympathetic (fight or flight) nervous system and increases the relaxing parasympathetic system. Subjects given Rhodiola show increased levels of beta-endorphin in the brain. Beta-endorphin is the stress relieving, feel-good, analgesic peptide.

Antidepressant: All test subjects showed a positive therapeutic effect from 100 mg of Rhodiola per day. It is thought to work by making serotonin's precursors, tryptophan and 5-HTP, more available to the brain and by increasing the amount of serotonin in the brain. Serotonin is destroyed by catechol-O-methyltransferase or COMT. Rhodiola antagonizes COMT. Rosavin can decrease COMT activity by 60% and raise serotonin levels by 30%! A study of 128 individuals of all ages with various forms of depression showed that 65% had a complete disappearance of their depression. Rhodiola has been used with a variety of prescription antidepressants with no apparent problems.

Prevents emotional stress: Asthenia, an emotional stress condition, is a condition characterized by sluggishness, low motivation, muscle weakness, chronic fatigue, labored breathing, giddiness, chest pain, palpitations and excessive sleeping. 100 to 150 mg of Rhodiola daily reversed this.

Improves endurance levels: Excellent for athletes. A study of 52 individuals of all ages showed a 12% increase in the duration of physical performance. When initially fatigued and asked to perform the test, it increased to 28%! Rhodiola increases muscular ATP and creatine levels.

Shortens recovery after strenuous and prolonged exercise: 30 minutes after a 12 mile long biathlon, control subjects still had a pulse rate of 129% above baseline (pre-exercise.) Rhodiola subjects had a pulse rate only 105% of baseline.

Improves physical performance: In the biathlon subjects had to ski 12 miles while periodically shooting at targets. Not only did they complete the course faster, they hit far more targets. In a study of 112 subjects, 89% of those taking Rhodiola showed a much more rapid improvement in performance in various sports. Furthermore, 69% demonstrated much faster adaptation to climatic and social changes while 86% had an improved appetite. Helps maintain energy levels. Improves indicators of protein metabolism. Valuable for body builders. Researchers considered Rhodiola the equivalent of anabolic steroids without the side-effects. Muscle protein and glutamic acid (from L-Glutamine) are enhanced by Rhodiola. It also increases hemoglobin and red blood cell levels while favorable changing the muscle to fat ratio of the body.

Increases attention span, memory and mental performance: In a proofreading test, those taking Rhodiola decreased the number of mistakes by 88% while the control group increased theirs by 84%!

A similar test was conducted with 128 students who were also tested for the effects of fatigue on mental performance over time. After an hour, the placebo group had a 13% increase in errors; after four hours this increased to 37%; after six hours it became 88%; and after eight hours it went up to 180%! Those taking Rhodiola had a 56% decrease in errors for four hours. After that it crept up but still stayed well below the controls.

Increases strength and mobility:

Prevents the development of hypoglycemia. Valuable for diabetics. In animal experiments Rhodiola increased blood insulin and decreased glucagon. Rhodiola resulted in a 50 to 80% increase in liver glycogen where excess sugar is stored.

Increases blood supply to the brain and muscles.

Optimizes serotonin, dopamine and other neurotransmitter levels in the brain.

Helps remove ammonia from the body.

Helps maintain high levels of creatine phosphate in the cellular mitochondria.

Activates lipase in long distance runners and swimmers.

Rhodiola Rosea protects against heart attacks
. Stress causes adrenalin release which over time can "burn" the heart. Overly contracted heart muscle fibers show "contraction bands" a sign of heart muscle damage found in 86% of heart attack victims.

Rhodiola Rosea decreases the amount of adrenalin and cortisol released during stress and protects the heart against "adrenalin burn." Rhodiola also lowers serum fats and cholesterol while increasing the resistance of blood vessels to cholesterol plaques. If that weren't enough it also protects against arrhythmias (abnormal heart beats) by potentiating endorphins (natural opiates that regulate heart beat.)

Immune stimulation: Rhodiola increases immune response while blocking the immune lowering effects of cortisol. In one animal experiment, natural killer cell activity increased with Rhodiola.

Combats cancer: A study in rats showed that Rhodiola decreased tumor growth by 39% and inhibited metastases by 50%. Please note we do not have substantiated evidence of these test results.

Fat loss: In a placebo controlled study of Rhodiola’s ability to mobilize fatty acids from adipose tissue, 121 subjects were given either Rhodiola extract or a placebo and their serum lipid levels were tested at rest and after one hour of exercise. The Rhodiola group had 6% greater serum fatty acid levels than the placebo group at rest and 44% greater levels after one hour of exercise. This difference is presumably due to Rhodiola’s ability to activate adipose lipase, a key enzyme required to burn the body’s fat stores.

Similarly, a clinical study at the Georgian State Hospital (in the former Soviet Union) treated 130 overweight patients for 90 days. At the conclusion it was found that among those who consumed Rhodiola rosea extract, 92% lost an average of 20 pounds while the placebo group lost only 8 pounds on the same diet.

Rhodiola is recommended for anyone suffering from depression or anxiety, anyone requiring more mental alertness, athletes and body builders, anyone prone to develop Alzheimer's disease or who has memory problems, immune deficient or cancer patients, anyone with heart disease, those suffering from obesity, and anyone wishing to increase their sexual stamina. It is especially recommended for anyone whose life is stressful."

http://www.herbalremedies.com/readmorabamh.html

sorry for the ultra long post.
 
I tried some Rhodiola once. Did fuck all to be honest.

I know what you mean about the crackhouse incident. I've had some weird nights. Drugs can put you in contact with some seriously fucked up people that you wouldn't normally meet. I spent a harrowing evening on E and acid with a guy who was AWOL from the army. He was clearly paranoid, domineering and extremely aggressive anyway and unfortunately the strong acid didn't make him any more relaxed. He kind of held all hostage for about 5 hours until we worked out a way of sneaking off! You don't need that shit.

I don't think E normally repairs depression but if you think it does then cool.

One thing I found really "healing" is shrooms taken with the right person. Someone you like and care about. If you go into it with a promise to be 100% honest and open then it can really open up stuff in your mind. I've felt huge empathy for weeks afterwards.
 
One of the main reasons for stopping my medication was to use MDMA. I miss feeling content. At the time I was doing it frequently, I was working over 50 hours a week in retail, had a long distance boyfriend, and the world's shittiest friendships. Everything was against me. One night of MDMA would make me content for two solid weeks. The next two weeks, I would tolerate things. After that, I would lose my shit, pop a roll, and repeat.

I really want to harness that content feeling, make it last as long as possible. The only way I can see that happening is taking MDMA before going to therapy. I wonder if my therapist would be okay with that...hmm.

This is a very bad idea. While MDMA can bring about profound changes in your thinking, I would recommend trying to "solve" depression via MDMA. This is very difficult to do and you will find yourself self medicating in order to achieve clarity.

In order to be truly content, you have to be able to be happy without the use of drugs. Drugs can lead to insights, but you have to be positioned in a way that allows you to take those insights and apply they to your day to day life.
 
I tried some Rhodiola once. Did fuck all to be honest.

Tried some 'once'? It's not something you just take once; it's something you keep taking on a regular basis to get effects (not to mention if you don't get a variety actually grown in siberia then it's completely useless....and then there's differences in quality between brands). However I don't expect someone with a total lack of mind-body connection to be able to appreciate the endlessly rewarding field of adaptogenic herbs. Just go with the rest of your SSRI taking, xanax popping, opiate loving, adderrall enamored US population. I'll keep my supreme medicine.
 
I'm willing to give it a shot. I mean, I don't know what I could get on Amazon, but if it helps, it helps. If it doesn't, eh. 5-HTP didn't do much at all for me. I started taking it to actually help me with a creative block I was having. I wrote a few songs, it worked a little. But the crazy dreams I had were not worth it though.
 
Tried some 'once'? It's not something you just take once; it's something you keep taking on a regular basis to get effects (not to mention if you don't get a variety actually grown in siberia then it's completely useless....and then there's differences in quality between brands). However I don't expect someone with a total lack of mind-body connection to be able to appreciate the endlessly rewarding field of adaptogenic herbs. Just go with the rest of your SSRI taking, xanax popping, opiate loving, adderrall enamored US population. I'll keep my supreme medicine.

As In bought a big jar. Took it as advised.

Did fuck all. Some herbal things work a bit, most don't in my experience.
 
^ so you're real experienced with herbs eh?

lol.


You just rub me the wrong way a bit because I'm very passionate about health and use many of these herbs in my daily life, and you have the wrong attitude about it. Ok, it didn't work for you. Doesn't mean they do 'fuck all'. This is where 'YMMV' comes from, you know, your mileage may vary with these herbs. I'm tryin' to help this girl in a healthy way and you just come in here shooting down everything I say, instead recommending she trips on mushrooms to solve her problems. Nice.


millions of people around the world, and even on erowid, can back me up.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=70939

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=71257

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=50331

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=62902
 
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^ so you're real experienced with herbs eh?

lol.


You just rub me the wrong way a bit because I'm very passionate about health and use many of these herbs in my daily life, and you have the wrong attitude about it. Ok, it didn't work for you. Doesn't mean they do 'fuck all'. This is where 'YMMV' comes from, you know, your mileage may vary with these herbs. I'm tryin' to help this girl in a healthy way and you just come in here shooting down everything I say, instead recommending she trips on mushrooms to solve her problems. Nice.


millions of people around the world, and even on erowid, can back me up.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=70939

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=71257

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=50331

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=62902

yes I'd say I'm pretty experienced with herbs.

I said it did fuck all for me and it did. Would you prefer I lie about my experiences to fit your opinions? I'm not shooting down everything you say, I'm giving a counter-opinion based on my experience.

Millions of people claim homeopathy works for them but that is a scientific impossibility. So internet claims mean very little unfortunately. I dare say Rhodiola has some beneficial effects in some situations. It may have some negative effects too - all drugs do. Herb enthusiasts like to believe every little study pointing at some possible benefit but in reality they are rarely as useful as all that. That your passionate about it just serves to indicate you're probably sold on the idea and not objective.

I didn't recommend she took shrooms to solve her problems. Again I just recounted a personal experience. I don't recommend anyone takes any drug at all. You don't usually need to be taking drugs regulaly to live your life and that includes supposed Wonder Herbs.

http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/rhodiola-rosea.html
 
Lol, homeopathy is totally different from the herbs we're talking about. Nice expert knowledge..


And I wouldn't prefer you lie, so much as not to be so abrasive in the way you state your experience.



Ah, just another tool on the internet, why do I care..
 
Well, thank you both for your input.

I don't want to be dependent on any drug ('cept for birth control, caffeine, and nicotine--the three amigos), hence why I'm quitting SSRIs. Been fucking great so far. In fact, I've been in such a better mood lately. Only thing I noticed is that little things bug me a bit more than they used to. Like, if someone doesn't answer my question directly, I immediately think they're being sneaky. But, I'd probably think that anyways, I'd just react differently. More pissy, less pouty.

MDMA is a wonderful drug, and while I have used it, I don't believe I've ever abused it. I haven't even been able to really enjoy it, because I've been so worried about being "too high". My goal would be to get some nice clean stuff, set up my room with some good music, pretty lights, have one monitor play some neat visualizer and the other play a slideshow of earth porn, mess around with board games or fingerpaints and just talk about everything that has ever been on my mind. You know, really let go and enjoy the drug while getting the most out of it that I can.

My therapist is relatively open-minded, but he seems to think you can overdose on anything (including THC, haha). I figure after I give him a bunch of info on MDMA that maybe he would trust me to show up while on the afterglow and talk. PTSD is a really difficult to treat and almost impossible to cure. It would be nice to kick it in the ass without eating fistfuls of addictive pills.

As for shrooms, I'm a bit apprehensive of them. I've done 2c-b before and enjoyed it, and it made me more open-minded to LSD, but I've heard a whole lot of scary stories about shrooms. I haven't done enough research on it, and I have a really mild intolerance to mushrooms (make me feel gaggy). tldr; I'll keep the suggestion in mind, but I probably won't do it for a while. Not comfortable.

I'll pick up some of the Rhodiola soon and give it a try. Worst case scenario, it doesn't work. Best case scenario, it works. But I'd much rather eat a bunch of legal, safe herbs than have to see a doctor every two weeks to up my dose of something that has serious side effects and complications.
 
Lol, homeopathy is totally different from the herbs we're talking about. Nice expert knowledge..

And I wouldn't prefer you lie, so much as not to be so abrasive in the way you state your experience.

Ah, just another tool on the internet, why do I care..

You are being a little obtuse. I wasn't comparing homeopathy with herbs. I was pointing out that millions of people believe all manner of things that are not true and offered homeopathy as an example of that. I would have thought that much was obvious but ho hum.

All I said was this herb did nothing for me. Which is a simple factual statement. You've since falsely accused me of recommending shrooms, "shooting down everything you say", having an attitude, being an internet tool and so on. Pretty extreme reaction to a simple case of your wonder herb not having the desired effect on me.

God knows how you'd react if I actually insulted you....like you have me.
 
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